Open Court: Shaq Has A Problem With Steve Nash Being A MVP

[Draje]

Offensive impact is more than just who scores a lot of points and gets a lot of assists. That's what a lot of people don't understand. Nash has 3 occasions where he's led a top 10 offense of all time, one under Don Nelson, one under D'Antoni, and one under Alvin Gentry.

To everyone that credits D'Antoni for Nash's success forgets one thing. D'Antoni, in his career, only has had only one Top 5 offensive ranking without Nash. His average ortg rank was around 18th. His first stint with Denver had horrible offensive results. His stint with the Knicks had one top 5 offensive rank. His stint with the Lakers also came bad. Nash, on the other hand, hasn't had those problems without D'Antoni. Unless you want to credit every coaches system for his results which make him nothing more than a glorified system player that could be replaced.

Nash is an elite offensive player and has almost always had an elite effect on a team's overall offensive numbers.

 

[Ben.]

Offensive impact is more than just who scores a lot of points and gets a lot of assists. That's what a lot of people don't understand. Nash has 3 occasions where he's led a top 10 offense of all time, one under Don Nelson, one under D'Antoni, and one under Alvin Gentry.

To everyone that credits D'Antoni for Nash's success forgets one thing. D'Antoni, in his career, only has had only one Top 5 offensive ranking without Nash. His average ortg rank was around 18th. His first stint with Denver had horrible offensive results. His stint with the Knicks had one top 5 offensive rank. His stint with the Lakers also came bad. Nash, on the other hand, hasn't had those problems without D'Antoni. Unless you want to credit every coaches system for his results which make him nothing more than a glorified system player that could be replaced.

Nash is an elite offensive player and has almost always had an elite effect on a team's overall offensive numbers.

FACTS

 

[954UAlreadyknow]

Is there a link for the full episode yet?

 

[malbaker86]

I have a problem with Tim Duncan robbing Kidd's MVP

 

[AVXL]

he was a good player but never anywhere close to top 5 in the league. I don't know how you can be the MVP of the league if you ain't even top 5 in the league. he won because they changed the definition of MVP during that era. it became all about "making ya teammates better" have no idea how thats judged but somehow it was the argument used to give him 2 MVPs.

a legit argument could be made he was not even the best player at his position during those years. Tony Parker and Chauncey Billups was out there winning finals MVPs.

There is NOONE who could reasonably argue that Chauncey Billups or Tony Parker were a better PG than Nash during the early to mid 2000s. GTFOH

 

[bl2k8]

Lemme get them fantasy points Arron

 

[BelowTheMasonDixon]

Real elite players shine in the playoffs, not during meaningless games in the regular season.

Carmelo is a cold regular season player, but always come up short during the nut cutting time of the NBA playoffs.

this guy was clutch

 

[BelowTheMasonDixon]

I do too nikka.


NBA: The Eight Most Controversial MVP Wins of All Time

The Winner should have been: Jason Kidd

Perhaps it was because voters felt that they snubbed Tim Duncan for MVP in 1999, or it was because Jason Kidd's arrest for spousal abuse in 2001 just biased them against him, but many believed that Tim Duncan did not deserve the MVP award in 2002.

Jason Kidd, despite his off the court issues, led the New Jersey Nets to one of the greatest turnarounds in league history in his first year with the Nets, as the team experienced turning a 26-win team into a 52-win team by basically adding Kidd.

Kidd's numbers were also special that year, as he averaged 14.7 ppg, 9.9 apg and 7.3 rpg. He also contributed many intangibles to the team as well, such as his defensive tenacity and his incredible will to win, eventually leading the Nets to its first ever trip to the finals.

Duncan, to be sure, had a great year. He averaged 25.5ppg, 12.7 rpg, and 2.5 bpg. However, these numbers aren't vastly different from his numbers the previous year when he averaged 22.2 ppg, 12.2 rpg and 2.2 bpg.

But if the measure of an MVP is leading one's team to regular season success, it was hard to make the case that Duncan did. His Spurs won 58 games, the same as they'd won the previous year. But at least in 2001 the Spurs were the conferences top seed. In 2002, they were only third.

Kidd should have won the award that year. He had all the ingredients to secure the award, except a clear public image.

 

[GunRanger]

Complete fukkin bullshyt

It's well known Pop borrowed from D'antoni with his new offense. It was even mentioned on a broadcast once. It was the only way to turn the team over to Parker. Pop just expanded on it, and uses more than just spamming pick and rolls.

Barbosa was above average and shouldn't have been a starter or running point. Shawn marion was just entering his prime, amare had injuries. You say "obviously they needed a pg", well no shyt. If they had kept steph they wouldn't have been as bad as the record indicated was the point. Using the argument of "he took them from 29 wins to 62" is clearly one of not using context. The context matters when using such an argument. They would have increased their win total with any competent point guard, plus quentin richardson being good during that time, joe johnson taking a leap forward, amare being healthy and taking a leap forward.

They sucked WITH Steph, so no, the context doesn't change.

if they still had the PLAYERS award the MVP rather than the media, Kobe woulda won it going away.

Kobe won 45 games in the brutal west with Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, and Luke Walton STARTING. Just think about that. 3 of the worst players in the league and they were critical starters for us. He was going 1 on 5 most nights and single handedly took them up 3-1. Remember the game tying and then game winning shots in Game 4 against the Suns?

Once Kobe got a halfway decent player next to him in Pau, he went to 3 straight finals and won 2 rings.

If he had a halfway decent roster in 06 when he was in the prime of his career, he would not only have won the title but probably been the unanimous league MVP.

They were good enough to go up 3-1, then got trounced in the final 3 games. Explain why the so called MVP quit in his biggest game hitherto post-Shaq?

 

[Black Miller]

i always felt 04-05 was shaq's mvp, and 05-06 shoulda been kobe's or lebron's. i thought nash actually shoulda won in 06-07 but dirk had a great year that year (regular season wise- his flamed out in the 07 playoffs)

 

[malbaker86]

I do too nikka.


NBA: The Eight Most Controversial MVP Wins of All Time

The Winner should have been: Jason Kidd

Perhaps it was because voters felt that they snubbed Tim Duncan for MVP in 1999, or it was because Jason Kidd's arrest for spousal abuse in 2001 just biased them against him, but many believed that Tim Duncan did not deserve the MVP award in 2002.

Jason Kidd, despite his off the court issues, led the New Jersey Nets to one of the greatest turnarounds in league history in his first year with the Nets, as the team experienced turning a 26-win team into a 52-win team by basically adding Kidd.

Kidd's numbers were also special that year, as he averaged 14.7 ppg, 9.9 apg and 7.3 rpg. He also contributed many intangibles to the team as well, such as his defensive tenacity and his incredible will to win, eventually leading the Nets to its first ever trip to the finals.

Duncan, to be sure, had a great year. He averaged 25.5ppg, 12.7 rpg, and 2.5 bpg. However, these numbers aren't vastly different from his numbers the previous year when he averaged 22.2 ppg, 12.2 rpg and 2.2 bpg.

But if the measure of an MVP is leading one's team to regular season success, it was hard to make the case that Duncan did. His Spurs won 58 games, the same as they'd won the previous year. But at least in 2001 the Spurs were the conferences top seed. In 2002, they were only third.

Kidd should have won the award that year. He had all the ingredients to secure the award, except a clear public image.

Duncan averaged 26, 13, 4, 3 and look at the people who he was carrying that season: a broken down Robinson and Steve Smith, a defense only Bruce Bowen, and a 19 year old Tony Parker.

 

[NYC Rebel]

The backdrop of Nash MVPs are they were given at a time where the racist sentiment towards black NBA players was at an all time high. Nash and the "he makes his teammates better" angle long with being a white dude made him the choice of writers to say he was worthy.

 

[BelowTheMasonDixon]

Duncan averaged 26, 13, 4, 3 and look at the people who he was carrying that season: a broken down Robinson and Steve Smith, a defense only Bruce Bowen, and a 19 year old Tony Parker.

Man Kidd took them boys to the NBA FINALS

them boys won like 26 games before that STOP IT.

 

[NYC Rebel]

But he still never got out the 1st round. Even when he was in the sorry East for the Magics and was up 3-1 against the Pistons. An elite player wouldn't have allow his team to lose 3 straight games to be bounced out the playoffs.

Umm....t Mac play or lack there of was not responsible for those first round departures bro. At least point out the irresponsibility on t macs part.

 

[Broad Street Bully]

nikkas hating on Nash. Boul was NICE. Aboslutely deserved it.