OutKast vs. Mobb Deep | By The Numbers

[JustCKing]

1. what proof?? either youre cognizant of it or youre not.

2. youre right. I apologize for that. its still besides the point tho.
sidenote: 3 big hits is a huge feat in itself. the fact that their names are still brought up way more than people with numerous successful albums, says something. but again, this is all besides the point.

3. outkast was ALWAYS safe music for people that didn't really like hip-hop. some of yall just didn't catch onto it until later when they got bigger & more blatant with it. but that's on yall if yall cant keep up.

the difference between outkast and groups like pm dawn/arrested development is that outkast also developed a substantial hip-hop base. I don't know why yall keep acting like I'm grouping them in with those groups, because I'm clearly not. i wouldnt even be surprised if theyre not influenced by them either. I'm just saying they drew from their consumer base. AND THATS ALL IM SAYING.

1. Nah, bruh, you don't make a claim and skate by talking about "you had to be cognizant". Prove it. Plain and simple.

2. It's not beside the point. If you had one album that was huge and made other albums that were flops, and you're not even acknowledged after the fact (considering how huge the debut was), they are pretty much culturally irrelevant. 3 big hits is not a huge feat. There's a lot of groups/artists who had three hits and then nothing. When PM Dawn is brought up it is in relation to them not really being Hip Hop or in relation to what KRS did to one of the members.

3. Kast was not ALWAYS safe music, which goes back to the content they had in their music from day one. They have multiple songs on every album that are first person narratives of violence, misogyny, drug dealing, smoking weed, etc. Not to mention, it was profanity laced. It wasn't safe. I don't think Arrested Development had profanity in their music. Same goes for PM Dawn.

What point are you trying to make in stating they drew from their consumer base?

 

[mobbinfms]

With regards to point one, how could a person even be cognizant of something like that? To the degree where there would be any statistical significance? Unless you worked at a record store and could see who was buying what.

For me, I disnt know anyone who bought or otherwise had a PM Dawn or Arrested Development album

@Homeboy Runny-Ray @JustCKing

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

With regards to point one, how could a person even be cognizant of something like that? To the degree where there would be any statistical significance? Unless you worked at a record store and could see who was buying what.

For me, I disnt know anyone who bought or otherwise had a PM Dawn or Arrested Development album

@Homeboy Runny-Ray @JustCKing

at least youre honest.
this is one of the reasons why I rock with you. these other dudes be pump-faking.

I addressed all of this below already(I posted it before I read your post).​

1. Nah, bruh, you don't make a claim and skate by talking about "you had to be cognizant". Prove it. Plain and simple.

2. It's not beside the point. If you had one album that was huge and made other albums that were flops, and you're not even acknowledged after the fact (considering how huge the debut was), they are pretty much culturally irrelevant. 3 big hits is not a huge feat. There's a lot of groups/artists who had three hits and then nothing. When PM Dawn is brought up it is in relation to them not really being Hip Hop or in relation to what KRS did to one of the members.

3. Kast was not ALWAYS safe music, which goes back to the content they had in their music from day one. They have multiple songs on every album that are first person narratives of violence, misogyny, drug dealing, smoking weed, etc. Not to mention, it was profanity laced. It wasn't safe. I don't think Arrested Development had profanity in their music. Same goes for PM Dawn.

What point are you trying to make in stating they drew from their consumer base?

1. dog, its the same situation with you in every thread no matter the topic. and I don't have the patience for it anymore. just go outside. you want everything to be spoonfed to you via a stats-sheet. theres no chart that examines such. you just have to be culturally adapt. shoot, you dont even have to leave the house to see the token "safe rap" placements that they always received. cognizance is the key. and I'm gonna leave it at that because theres no where else to go, but for us to hurl insults.

2. what the hell?? what are you even arguing about at this point?? way off-topic. this is the chit I'm talking about.
and again, some of yall are too caught up in hip-hop. you'd be surprised how many people who bought PM Dawn, don't even know about the KRS incident.

3A.). most of their street content was very vague. you have to understand, most people don't listen to rap as critically as we do. especially people who aren't into hip-hop all like that.

3B.) and for the record, its not as simple as content. you cant just draw lines like that. theres street people who were fans of pm dawn & arrested development, believe it or not. and then when outkast came out with similar stylings, they drew from that base. their street content was an additional plus after the purchase, if you even peeped the content.

and this is chit that I experienced first-hand on the regular. so for some of yall to sit up here and act like I'm making chit up is laughable. people just don't want to admit they were out-the-loop on something and/or they want to be in denial & pretend they were selling records strictly on some street chit - which is funny because they were never marketed in that manner.

 

[JustCKing]

at least youre honest.
this is one of the reasons why I rock with you. these other dudes be pump-faking.

I addressed all of this below already(I posted it before I read your post).​

1. dog, its the same situation with you in every thread no matter the topic. and I don't have the patience for it anymore. just go outside. you want everything to be spoonfed to you via a stats-sheet. theres no chart that examines such. you just have to be culturally adapt. shoot, you dont even have to leave the house to see the token "safe rap" placements that they always received. cognizance is the key. and I'm gonna leave it at that because theres no where else to go, but for us to hurl insults.

2. what the hell?? what are you even arguing about at this point?? way off-topic. this is the chit I'm talking about.
and again, some of yall are too caught up in hip-hop. you'd be surprised how many people who bought PM Dawn, don't even know about the KRS incident.

3A.). most of their street content was very vague. you have to understand, most people don't listen to rap as critically as we do. especially people who aren't into hip-hop all like that.

3B.) and for the record, its not as simple as content. you cant just draw lines like that. theres street people who were fans of pm dawn & arrested development, believe it or not. and then when outkast came out with similar stylings, they drew from that base. their street content was an additional plus after the purchase, if you even peeped the content.

and this is chit that I experienced first-hand on the regular. so for some of yall to sit up here and act like I'm making chit up is laughable. people just don't want to admit they were out-the-loop on something and/or they want to be in denial & pretend they were selling records strictly on some street chit - which is funny because they were never marketed in that manner.

1. I'm not the only one that called this out. I don't want anything spoonfed. The operative word is PROOF. If you make a claim, it should be easy to back it up. If not, why even mention. Cognizance and "you had to be there" are always your go to exit plans when you have nothing.

2. How is it off base if you're the one who brought it up? How is everyone too caught up in Hip Hop? This is a Hip Hop discussion.

3A) OutKast's street content wasn't vague. It was pretty straight forward.

3B) This is what I was getting at. Outkast was different from PM Dawn and Arrested Development. Nothing in their repertoire was street and in Arrested Development's case, they shunned the type of content that was prevalent in Kast's music. Kast came out calling themselves "Southernplayalistic pimps". Andre 3000 is on a song hanging up on a girl who called him saying she's pregnant with his child. They are talking about having sacks to serve, and even one of their more mainstream songs "B.O.B." has Andre talking about a scale and arm & hammer. That's just surface level. One of their biggest albums features these songs:











Their street content wasn't additional plus. That was as much a part of their style as everything else they had going on. It's called versatility.

 

[JustCKing]

I don't really get the focus on Arrested Development and PM Dawn. To me it looks like some backhanded comparison to undermine Kast's fan base as to say Kast don't matter. I mean, there's other Alternative Hip Hop groups that are far more similar to Kast than Arrested Development and PM Dawn who Kast actually share fan bases with. I didn't see a comparison to ATCQ, a group which Kast lists as an influence, and there were talks of them doing a mixtape and later an album. There's also Pharcyde.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

I don't really get the focus on Arrested Development and PM Dawn. To me it looks like some backhanded comparison to undermine Kast's fan base as to say Kast don't matter. I mean, there's other Alternative Hip Hop groups that are far more similar to Kast than Arrested Development and PM Dawn who Kast actually share fan bases with. I didn't see a comparison to ATCQ, a group which Kast lists as an influence, and there were talks of them doing a mixtape and later an album. There's also Pharcyde.

if you don't get it, then you shouldn't be arguing.

none of those other groups apply to the topic at hand.....and regardless of that, we still mentioned them. so what are you complaining about again?

1. I'm not the only one that called this out. I don't want anything spoonfed. The operative word is PROOF. If you make a claim, it should be easy to back it up. If not, why even mention. Cognizance and "you had to be there" are always your go to exit plans when you have nothing.

2. How is it off base if you're the one who brought it up? How is everyone too caught up in Hip Hop? This is a Hip Hop discussion.

3A) OutKast's street content wasn't vague. It was pretty straight forward.

3B) This is what I was getting at. Outkast was different from PM Dawn and Arrested Development. Nothing in their repertoire was street and in Arrested Development's case, they shunned the type of content that was prevalent in Kast's music. Kast came out calling themselves "Southernplayalistic pimps". Andre 3000 is on a song hanging up on a girl who called him saying she's pregnant with his child. They are talking about having sacks to serve, and even one of their more mainstream songs "B.O.B." has Andre talking about a scale and arm & hammer. That's just surface level. One of their biggest albums features these songs:

Their street content wasn't additional plus. That was as much a part of their style as everything else they had going on. It's called versatility.

1,) yea, but whose calling me out?? people that are just into rap and/or weren't exposed to the bases that I'm talking about. of course I'm speaking foreign to them.

2A.) I didn't bring this up actually. AGAIN, you didn't read the thread. this convo was going on before I even clicked on this thread.
2B.) and that chit has nothing to do with what you were rambling on about in #2

3A.) why is this the largest part of your post when I just said that its not even really about the content? and why are you listing tracks from stankonia???

3B.) no theyre vague. hip-hop is essentially street music, so unless your music is completely detached from hip-hop's roots, youre gonna have street content to some degree in your music. but they were never seen as a street group like that. not even by their peers in their hometown. theyre a lot like the roots in that aspect. they have a lot of street content as well, but its not in your face. especially in their prime days where you kinda had to be from up here to get a lot of the stuff their references. yet the roots were still alternative and also one of the safer groups, just like outkast.

3C.) one thing I will say is I like the way you followed the outline all the way down to the ABC.

​

 

[JustCKing]

if you don't get it, then you shouldn't be arguing.

none of those other groups apply to the topic at hand.....and regardless of that, we still mentioned them. so what are you complaining about again?

​

Nah, I don't think you've ever listened to an Outkast album. I'm willing to bet you've only heard the singles and songs in passing and made a judgement on them. And because you see the group held in high regard, you don't get it and therefore feel the need to downplay them. I mean, you shouldn't even be taken seriously after making this comment:

outkast albums make me want to sip tea.

I don't have tracklists for their 1st 2 albums. but I can play those jawns in between pm dawn & arrested development cds and the mood wont change. and a lot of the same people that bought those albums, were buying outkast, whether people want to acknowledge it or not.

^^^ Why should you not be taken seriously? You're in here talking about you don't have the tracklists for their 1st two albums, but go on to talk about how you can play them in between PM Dawn & Arrested Development cds and the mood wouldn't change. If you really listened to the albums, you wouldn't need a tracklist.

 

[mobbinfms]

now that you mentioned it, outkast music was soft too.

Low key, that's exactly what it is. I think, subconsciously, that's why I always liked the first album the most. There isn't a single soft song on that album.
On Atliens, you had Jazzy Belle, Babylon and Growing Old. I love all three of those songs, don't get it twisted, but they are softer than anything on SPCM.

 

[JustCKing]

Low key, that's exactly what it is. I think, subconsciously, that's why I always liked the first album the most. There isn't a single soft song on that album.
On Atliens, you had Jazzy Belle, Babylon and Growing Old. I love all three of those songs, don't get it twisted, but they are softer than anything on SPCM.

Even the most grimiest groups have songs on their albums that are "soft".

"Jazzy Belle" isn't exactly soft. It's one of the more harder beats on the album and if you compare it tp SPCM, it's definitely harder than "Crumblin Erb", "Player's Ball remix" or "Funky Ride". "Jazzy Belle" is right there with "Git Up Git Out", which is them spittin' more conscious lyrics/content over a hard beat.

"Growing Old" is more in line with "Crumblin Erb".



Now the remix to "Jazzy Belle" is softer and is more geared toward an R&B fan and is far less Hip Hop than the OG.

 

[mobbinfms]

Even the most grimiest groups have songs on their albums that are "soft".

"Jazzy Belle" isn't exactly soft. It's one of the more harder beats on the album and if you compare it tp SPCM, it's definitely harder than "Crumblin Erb", "Player's Ball remix" or "Funky Ride". "Jazzy Belle" is right there with "Git Up Git Out", which is them spittin' more conscious lyrics/content over a hard beat.

"Growing Old" is more in line with "Crumblin Erb".



Now the remix to "Jazzy Belle" is softer and is more geared toward an R&B fan and is far less Hip Hop than the OG.

I'm not counting Funky Ride at all since its not even an Outkast song. I like it though for what it is
That was just Organized Noize advertising on Kast's album

I couldn't break it down for you. Maybe it's something to do with Chord progression? Or the singing on these tracks? I really don't know. All I can tell you is Crumblin' Erb sounds a whole hell of a lot dirtier and funkier than Jazzy Belle
How is Playaz Ball even in the conversation though
This shyt?


I'm not talking about what they tacked on at the end of album
Or the alternate versions on the vinyl.

 

[JustCKing]

I'm not counting Funky Ride at all since its not even an Outkast song. I like it though for what it is
That was just Organized Noize advertising on Kast's album

I couldn't break it down for you. Maybe it's something to do with Chord progression? Or the singing on these tracks? I really don't know. All I can tell you is Crumblin' Erb sounds a whole hell of a lot dirtier and funkier than Jazzy Belle
How is Playaz Ball even in the conversation though
This shyt?


I'm not talking about what they tacked on at the end of album
Or the alternate versions on the vinyl.

"Crumblin" isn't dirtier than "Jazzy", it may be more funkier, but not dirtier.

"Funky Ride" and the alternate version of "Player's Ball" are still on the album though. Regardless if Kast is on them or not.

 

[mobbinfms]

"Crumblin" isn't dirtier than "Jazzy", it may be more funkier, but not dirtier.

"Funky Ride" and the alternate version of "Player's Ball" are still on the album though. Regardless if Kast is on them or not.

Disagree on Crumbling/Jazzy but hey it is what it is
You're right on the second point (well, partially, I think the "reprise" of player's ball is on the album - there is also a remix over a slightly different beat with them rapping - but that's not on the album). Either way, they don't factor in for me, but it is what it is

 

[bigesco]

Some dudes here are wildin tho , shyt on kast as much as you want from Aquemini on, but come on Southern & Atliens are fukking classics. Atliens was not soft imo, at all and joints like growing old and babylon are some of their best songs ever. Mobb is obviously better and has a much better & deeper discog but lets not lose our heads.

 

[JustCKing]

Some dudes here are wildin tho , shyt on kast as much as you want from Aquemini on, but come on Southern & Atliens are fukking classics. Atliens was not soft imo, at all and joints like growing old and babylon are some of their best songs ever. Mobb is obviously better and has a much better & deeper discog but lets not lose our heads.

Agree on Southernplayalistic and ATLiens. Don't know where the soft talk came from. The first 5-6 songs on ATLiens are some of their hardest. Then there's "Decatur Psalm", and even the drumless "E.T."

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Nah, I don't think you've ever listened to an Outkast album. I'm willing to bet you've only heard the singles and songs in passing and made a judgement on them. And because you see the group held in high regard, you don't get it and therefore feel the need to downplay them. I mean, you shouldn't even be taken seriously after making this comment:

^^^ Why should you not be taken seriously? You're in here talking about you don't have the tracklists for their 1st two albums, but go on to talk about how you can play them in between PM Dawn & Arrested Development cds and the mood wouldn't change. If you really listened to the albums, you wouldn't need a tracklist.

what are you babbling about now??

I'm convinced that youre mildly retarded or something.

goodbye.