Phil's Drunk Messin' With The Association Save Again: Knicks 2015-2016 Tryout / Off Season Thread

[JerseyFinest!]

The most bizarre thing that I'm observed this season isn't how bad we have been playing...

It's the fact that the "tank set" is in here happy as if it's apparent that the Knicks are actually "tanking".

It's fascinating because I'm realizing that considering that Melo is still grinding out significant minutes, our players are getting injured and many games are close down the stretch... is actually very clear that we aren't "tanking".

I feel some type of way about the "tankset" feeling chummy as if the Knicks are proving their basketball management strategy is efficient when that's absolutely NOT what they are doing.

I'm now convinced that this is purely a defense mechanism for yall to get through the season.

Spoiler: What really is happening. ..

This team is not doing this intentionally. .The coaching is not sabotaging the season. This team is actually terrible. Tankset should get off their high horse because that is not what they are doing. This better serves the fans who wanted them to maintain their dignity as a basketball organization who would rather see anything happen than their team intentionally losing on some bytch shyt.. They are going hard and play to win, but losing. I can't ask for more for this flawed team.

Exactly!

 

[nomoreneveragain]

Fam

https://www.livingsocial.com/events...98-new-york-knicks-tickets&msdc_id=549-queens

 

[DPresidential]

Cut the shyt... No one thinks this team is tanking intentionally. Matter of fact, I guarantee if that was the goal, they would fukk it up and start winning. Truth is, we can get a guy like Okafor and around 20 mil in cap space. That's a start.

Breh...


Fans in this thread after every loss on that, "Yea...Tankset. [Obligatory Phil smilie]

NOW...I'm not saying all of those people are who I'm sending shots at.

But the brehs who, before the season, championed the Tank philosophy & tried to criticize anyone not into the philosophy are saying basically purporting the Knicks record as an indicator of their Basketball knowledge.

lol, when we know this team, as you said, are so backwards that if they did try to tank..they'd probably sneak into the East playoffs.

Nobody's mad breh...I am just saying... Don't tell me the whole time... "Just quit your job bruh..we could live off public assistance! Let's milk this shyt." And when I reply no but a few months later I get fired & I'm collecting unemployment... Don't say, "My dude!!! Aight! See...ho does it feel to cheat the system, we living right?!" No breh! I'm just able to get the same benefit by trying hard & doing what I have to do but unfortunately I didn't do good enough.

If the Knicks wind up w/ a top 5 pick meanwhile they actually put in effort, regardless that it's piss poor, someone has to admit the L...and it won't be those who were against the Tank.

 

[I.V.]

The most bizarre thing that I'm observed this season isn't how bad we have been playing...

It's the fact that the "tank set" is in here happy as if it's apparent that the Knicks are actually "tanking".

It's fascinating because I'm realizing that considering that Melo is still grinding out significant minutes, our players are getting injured and many games are close down the stretch... is actually very clear that we aren't "tanking".

I feel some type of way about the "tankset" feeling chummy as if the Knicks are proving their basketball management strategy is efficient when that's absolutely NOT what they are doing.

I'm now convinced that this is purely a defense mechanism for yall to get through the season.

Spoiler: What really is happening. ..

This team is not doing this intentionally. .The coaching is not sabotaging the season. This team is actually terrible. Tankset should get off their high horse because that is not what they are doing. This better serves the fans who wanted them to maintain their dignity as a basketball organization who would rather see anything happen than their team intentionally losing on some bytch shyt.. They are going hard and play to win, but losing. I can't ask for more for this flawed team.

Here is the flaw in your argument --

From the BEGINNING - I told you, and many other fans in this and the offseason thread... that this team is bad. And had gotten WORSE since last season.

I explained it clearly. Succinctly. Simply. I gave you statistics and examples for why this team would be worse defensively and offensively. I showed you how other teams were improving.


The Knicks being bad this season is not a surprise. It was an inevitability.


People aren't "rooting for the tanking" because they think it is a strategy. We are glad this team is performing UP TO IT'S ABILITY because we have a draft pick this year, and BADLY BADLY BADLY BADLY need an infusion of talent.

A higher draft pick = larger pool of young talent to choose from.

This team needs: An inside presence - This draft has at least two potentially game-changing big men.
This team needs: Another dynamic scorer/defender on the wing - This draft has 2-3 of those.

The draft will allow use to get a player like that cheap, and have him for a long time.

The best young player we have right now is Hardaway, who is a good shooter, that can't pass or defend. He is a starter, at best.


This offseason, this roster is going to turnover A LOT. We are not developing this roster for a future run to the finals... we are gutting it, and starting over. All of that "but we should teach them winning mentality" bullshyt doesn't make sense when:
1) This team can't win.
2) Many of these players are not in this team's future.


Andy maybe somebody like you "can't ask more from a flawed team" -- but I can ask way more. This team doesn't compete every night. They have terrible habits. They play sloppy.

I ask more from a team that I'm supposed to support. Which is why I'm happy to see Phil Jackson focusing on getting more young players (for example, going from NO draft picks, to 3 draft picks in the last draft).

We know this team isn't intentionally shaving points to get draft picks. We know they suck. We are rooting for the losses - the "tanking" - because it is in the best interest of this team to get as much talent as quickly as possible.


You can't seem to grasp it, or some weird, naive understanding of the 'way sports should be' is keeping you from grasping it. Either way, stop whining.

We aren't the ones that got it backwards... it was you, and fans like you... pretending this team could contend. Calling it a top 4 team in the east... like you blacked out and missed the entire last season.

Our feet are in reality. We trust Phil to guide the ship, and we want him to have every asset at his disposal. Including the highest draft pick possible. THIS is not his roster, this is the PREVIOUS REGIME'S roster, and he's trying to fix it.


We will see if he can. I want him to. But I will not blindly root for a team that sucks to win a game here or there. I root for them to improve.

:knickphil:



And I see you backpedaling... talking that "well if they play hard and get a top 5 pick, we were right"


No. You were wrong. You didn't know what the fukk you were talking about. This team sucked in the offseason. Sucked last season. Sucks this season. And it is in their best interest to lose... which they are doing.

Don't try to rewrite history, like it's all about 'management purposely losing, and players mailing it in' -- it's about piling up losses.

You and a bunch of others were against it.

We were for it.

And you tried to pretend like we were lesser fans.... take the loss like a man. Understand how sports work, and let's keep it moving.

 

[Logic Reigns Supreme]

Bout to park my Ballstreams account.

 

[Illuminatos]

Here is the flaw in your argument --

From the BEGINNING - I told you, and many other fans in this and the offseason thread... that this team is bad. And had gotten WORSE since last season.

I explained it clearly. Succinctly. Simply. I gave you statistics and examples for why this team would be worse defensively and offensively. I showed you how other teams were improving.


The Knicks being bad this season is not a surprise. It was an inevitability.


People aren't "rooting for the tanking" because they think it is a strategy. We are glad this team is performing UP TO IT'S ABILITY because we have a draft pick this year, and BADLY BADLY BADLY BADLY need an infusion of talent.

A higher draft pick = larger pool of young talent to choose from.

This team needs: An inside presence - This draft has at least two potentially game-changing big men.
This team needs: Another dynamic scorer/defender on the wing - This draft has 2-3 of those.

The draft will allow use to get a player like that cheap, and have him for a long time.

The best young player we have right now is Hardaway, who is a good shooter, that can't pass or defend. He is a starter, at best.


This offseason, this roster is going to turnover A LOT. We are not developing this roster for a future run to the finals... we are gutting it, and starting over. All of that "but we should teach them winning mentality" bullshyt doesn't make sense when:
1) This team can't win.
2) Many of these players are not in this team's future.


Andy maybe somebody like you "can't ask more from a flawed team" -- but I can ask way more. This team doesn't compete every night. They have terrible habits. They play sloppy.

I ask more from a team that I'm supposed to support. Which is why I'm happy to see Phil Jackson focusing on getting more young players (for example, going from NO draft picks, to 3 draft picks in the last draft).

We know this team isn't intentionally shaving points to get draft picks. We know they suck. We are rooting for the losses - the "tanking" - because it is in the best interest of this team to get as much talent as quickly as possible.


You can't seem to grasp it, or some weird, naive understanding of the 'way sports should be' is keeping you from grasping it. Either way, stop whining.

We aren't the ones that got it backwards... it was you, and fans like you... pretending this team could contend. Calling it a top 4 team in the east... like you blacked out and missed the entire last season.

Our feet are in reality. We trust Phil to guide the ship, and we want him to have every asset at his disposal. Including the highest draft pick possible. THIS is not his roster, this is the PREVIOUS REGIME'S roster, and he's trying to fix it.


We will see if he can. I want him to. But I will not blindly root for a team that sucks to win a game here or there. I root for them to improve.

:knickphil:



And I see you backpedaling... talking that "well if they play hard and get a top 5 pick, we were right"


No. You were wrong. You didn't know what the fukk you were talking about. This team sucked in the offseason. Sucked last season. Sucks this season. And it is in their best interest to lose... which they are doing.

Don't try to rewrite history, like it's all about 'management purposely losing, and players mailing it in' -- it's about piling up losses.

You and a bunch of others were against it.

We were for it.

And you tried to pretend like we were lesser fans.... take the loss like a man. Understand how sports work, and let's keep it moving.

Beautiful

Don't worry once these dudes hear Adam Silver speak the words "With the 1st pick in the 2015 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select..." they'll forget about all this losing and will be back on Zen's jock.

 

[BXKingPin82]

Beautiful

Don't worry once these dudes hear Adam Silver speak the words "With the 1st pick in the 2015 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select..." they'll forget about all this losing and will be back on Zen's jock.

Since 96 theres only been 2 players to win a chip (1 not on the team that selected him)

Go...

 

[No Homo]

Since 96 theres only been 2 players to win a chip (1 not on the team that selected him)

Go...

wade was the 5th pick and won a chip for miami
Dirk was the 9th pick and won a chip with dallas
Paul pierce was 10th pick which won a chip with boston
Kobe was the 13th pick with LA.

Teams that have won have won with a homegrown superstar....you need stability and young talent that can be built around and grow with the team and the draft gives you that..... Knicks havent had that since patrick ewing...yes #1 doesn't ensure you anything but you get your pick of the litter...and gives you a chance to draft a good young talent. Knicks fans should be happy about having a pick this year...shyt even if yall dont want to keep the pick(which i doubt) you can always trade it , trade down, plus you have cap space..you guys are in an enviable position this year.

 

[RicanHavok]

IMO Phils focus at the moment should be on moving JR & Calderon. That would clean the slate entirely for a legit rebuild while having a star player in place. I only wonder if it's a concern of the FO that moving those guys for expirings is admitting/taking the L. That's always been the issue in the past is admitting to fans what the fans already know and see. If Phil can move em or at least attempt to then at least I can still have hope there.

 

[JMurder]

I didn't come into this season thinking that JR Smith, Tim Hardaway JR, and Jose Calderon would spend most of the first half scoring below 10ppg. I also expected the absence of Woodson and Felton would improve this team. I'm still waiting for the receipts for that

 

[BXKingPin82]

wade was the 5th pick and won a chip for miami
Dirk was the 9th pick and won a chip with dallas
Paul pierce was 10th pick which won a chip with boston
Kobe was the 13th pick with LA.

Teams that have won have won with a homegrown superstar....you need stability and young talent that can be built around and grow with the team and the draft gives you that..... Knicks havent had that since patrick ewing...yes #1 doesn't ensure you anything but you get your pick of the litter...and gives you a chance to draft a good young talent. Knicks fans should be happy about having a pick this year...shyt even if yall dont want to keep the pick(which i doubt) you can always trade it , trade down, plus you have cap space..you guys are in an enviable position this year.

You guys?!

Im from New York not MSG
real New Yorkers too goddamn smart to be Knick fans

 

[DPresidential]

Here is the flaw in your argument --

From the BEGINNING - I told you, and many other fans in this and the offseason thread... that this team is bad. And had gotten WORSE since last season.

I explained it clearly. Succinctly. Simply. I gave you statistics and examples for why this team would be worse defensively and offensively. I showed you how other teams were improving.


The Knicks being bad this season is not a surprise. It was an inevitability.


People aren't "rooting for the tanking" because they think it is a strategy. We are glad this team is performing UP TO IT'S ABILITY because we have a draft pick this year, and BADLY BADLY BADLY BADLY need an infusion of talent.

A higher draft pick = larger pool of young talent to choose from.

This team needs: An inside presence - This draft has at least two potentially game-changing big men.
This team needs: Another dynamic scorer/defender on the wing - This draft has 2-3 of those.

The draft will allow use to get a player like that cheap, and have him for a long time.

The best young player we have right now is Hardaway, who is a good shooter, that can't pass or defend. He is a starter, at best.


This offseason, this roster is going to turnover A LOT. We are not developing this roster for a future run to the finals... we are gutting it, and starting over. All of that "but we should teach them winning mentality" bullshyt doesn't make sense when:
1) This team can't win.
2) Many of these players are not in this team's future.


Andy maybe somebody like you "can't ask more from a flawed team" -- but I can ask way more. This team doesn't compete every night. They have terrible habits. They play sloppy.

I ask more from a team that I'm supposed to support. Which is why I'm happy to see Phil Jackson focusing on getting more young players (for example, going from NO draft picks, to 3 draft picks in the last draft).

We know this team isn't intentionally shaving points to get draft picks. We know they suck. We are rooting for the losses - the "tanking" - because it is in the best interest of this team to get as much talent as quickly as possible.


You can't seem to grasp it, or some weird, naive understanding of the 'way sports should be' is keeping you from grasping it. Either way, stop whining.

We aren't the ones that got it backwards... it was you, and fans like you... pretending this team could contend. Calling it a top 4 team in the east... like you blacked out and missed the entire last season.

Our feet are in reality. We trust Phil to guide the ship, and we want him to have every asset at his disposal. Including the highest draft pick possible. THIS is not his roster, this is the PREVIOUS REGIME'S roster, and he's trying to fix it.


We will see if he can. I want him to. But I will not blindly root for a team that sucks to win a game here or there. I root for them to improve.

:knickphil:



And I see you backpedaling... talking that "well if they play hard and get a top 5 pick, we were right"


No. You were wrong. You didn't know what the fukk you were talking about. This team sucked in the offseason. Sucked last season. Sucks this season. And it is in their best interest to lose... which they are doing.

Don't try to rewrite history, like it's all about 'management purposely losing, and players mailing it in' -- it's about piling up losses.

You and a bunch of others were against it.

We were for it.

And you tried to pretend like we were lesser fans.... take the loss like a man. Understand how sports work, and let's keep it moving.

Breh...

The second game in which we played against the Cavs...

When we won... I didn't say... "Yea, Chip or nothing 2015." I said... "If they played with effort like they did this game & lost 82 games... I'd be okay.

Derek Fisher... is trying to win games. Melo...has been carrying this team for 2 seasons. Players with their contract ending...Except for Bargnani, they are trying to play hard. The chemistry...is fukkING terrible.

^ All of that...is a recipe for players playing the best of their ability, but not working together. I can't help their inability to gel... And in many ways, Fisher is limited.

But at the end of the day...

And listen closely... At the end of the day...NO...ONE...IS....ACTIVELY...TRYING...TO....LOSE.

Let that sink in. I'm a KnickFam...so I always see the cup half full...okay. But that doesn't affect my ability to assess the way the team has was formed(I admit I believed there was talent)...that doesn't affect my ability to re-assess a team throughout the season(As I have done)...However, it does put the spotlight on people, who were for the INTENTIONAL tanking, taking pride in acting like their basketball iq is being shown by what is happening this season.

As a matter of fact... I can't even say you guys were wrong about that strategy. You know why? Because we will never know...the Knicks are not tanking. That is the issue that I am addressing.

No amount of "Hey Pres, you thought the Knicks would have a dybasty w/ Calderon being gawderon, Early being ROY, Melo putting up MJ numbers & Stat looking like the man of steel!" could detract from the point that the Knicks are playing to their ability, people see that & believe it or not, since they are playing to their ability this seaosn, we may get a great pick & people who purchased tickets & watch games aren't getting scammed by a team that is "actively throwing games."

Actively...throwing...games. That is not happening. So, at the end of this season @I.V., avoid your high horse by not saying, "See, the tank worked." Because that's not what they are doing.
Unless...of course...you think they are. Thoughts?

Beautiful

Don't worry once these dudes hear Adam Silver speak the words "With the 1st pick in the 2015 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select..." they'll forget about all this losing and will be back on Zen's jock.

Breh...

The people who expected something optimistic will not be upset. We understand that this team is definitely worse than anyone could have imagined & we are happy we have a pick.

The point is... we, nor Phil Jackson, ever had to watch that Brad Pitt Fury movie, in order to reap the benefits of this draft. At the end of the day, the Pro tankers still hoping that the next team they suggest should tank, actually does tank & wins a chip to validate their expert level(too condescending?) sorry, more experienced basketball knowledge.

Because...the Knicks didn't tank.

 

[I.V.]

And listen closely... At the end of the day...NO...ONE...IS....ACTIVELY...TRYING...TO....LOSE.

This is why I have in the past - and continue to - insist that you are simple.

You don't even read the post to which you are responding.

People aren't "rooting for the tanking" because they think it is a strategy. We are glad this team is performing UP TO IT'S ABILITY because we have a draft pick this year, and BADLY BADLY BADLY BADLY need an infusion of talent.

A higher draft pick = larger pool of young talent to choose from.

Tanking is a euphemism. None of the grounded, intelligent, smart fans - that have been correct about this team for two seasons now - think the knicks are shaving points or taking dives.

They just suck.

And I have insisted from the beginning that LOSING was in our best interest. And the Knicks... boy, are they losing. And while it is not fun to watch, it is better for them in the long term.

And that is why people in here are grabbing a hold of that "tank life" motto. It is an AKA for knowing this team stinks, and knowing that losing is in our best interest.


You have been wrong about LITERALLY everything with regard to this team. So maybe just shut up, stop trying to re-write history to get a win, and let the adults talk for a few.

 

[I.V.]

Beautiful

Don't worry once these dudes hear Adam Silver speak the words "With the 1st pick in the 2015 NBA Draft, the New York Knicks select..." they'll forget about all this losing and will be back on Zen's jock.

Nah, man.

They'll tell you that it was "playing hard and losing" that built the "heart of a champion" and led them to the promised land.

 

[The War Report]

This is why I have in the past - and continue to - insist that you are simple.

You don't even read the post to which you are responding.



Tanking is a euphemism. None of the grounded, intelligent, smart fans - that have been correct about this team for two seasons now - think the knicks are shaving points or taking dives.

They just suck.

And I have insisted from the beginning that LOSING was in our best interest. And the Knicks... boy, are they losing. And while it is not fun to watch, it is better for them in the long term.

And that is why people in here are grabbing a hold of that "tank life" motto. It is an AKA for knowing this team stinks, and knowing that losing is in our best interest.


You have been wrong about LITERALLY everything with regard to this team. So maybe just shut up, stop trying to re-write history to get a win, and let the adults talk for a few.

He'd would rather have The Knicks -- be The Knicks -- and make a trade to mortgage our future yet again to assemble a mediocre team, like they've been doing these past 15 years. Donnie Walsh was the closest one and was on the right track, but he didn't make enough moves to make our team worse to really get us the top 3 pick that we needed. But Dolan derailed all of that with one single push of the button. Donnie really botched that draft. Didn't have a plan B if he didn't land Curry and drafts a big when the team really needed a PG and there were several all-star level caliber PGs in that draft. And we still don't have a PG we can call our own. I hate this team.