Rappers going from WACK to DOPE? Which rappers improved the most?

[Art Barr]

Wow surprised we've gone a whole 6 pages and nobody mentioned Bun B. This nikka is the valedictorian of the 'Rap Academy'.

Bun B wasn't dope until Ridin' Dirty. Don't get me wrong, he's always had memorable verses, but his lyrical ability went up several notches by RD. Murder, Pinky Ring, Diamonds & Wood, One Day, Touched, oohwee.

Honorable mention Wayne, Fat Joe

Originally bun b, scarface, jt money, big mike were argueably the most proficient and technically skilled in rap from the south.
In the early to mid 90's era before CCC [chamillionaire] came and crushed the buildings, in the south.
So, bun was always that type to up technical mastery of skill.


Some people have shyt on bun and accused him of being this or that.
Yet, he has never tailed off lyrically from his ramped up skill level.
He has only gone up and never descended into any showcases of lower level of skill.


Art barr

 

[h2o_proof]

Originally bun b, scarface, jt money, big mike were argueably the most proficient and technically skilled in rap from the south.
In the early to mid 90's era before CCC [chamillionaire] came and crushed the buildings, in the south.
So, bun was always that type to up technical mastery of skill.


Some people have shyt on bun and accused him of being this or that.
Yet, he has never tailed off lyrically from his ramped up skill level.
He has only gone up and never descended into any showcases of lower level of skill.


Art barr

I feel you, and I hesitated when I saw the thread title, maybe most improved? Cuz you're right, he's always been technically sound, and I'm not shytting on him by any stretch, I've told him this personally, Too Hard 2 Swallow= Technique and Anunciation>Supertight=Delivery and Wordplay>Ridin' Dirty=Dope Emcee, no one has ever upped their game like that over a 3 album stretch without changing their sound.

 

[mobbinfms]

cam was not the best in coc.
In revision people say that.
Yet, when coc and 8is enough dropped that was never said.
Cam was biting and basically just as offkey as the original major label 36 chambers version of ghostface.
The reason why he was offkey was a number of reasons.
From still developing Skillwise, to the sonic landscape of pop associated commercial ny rap in the budding stages of jiggy.

When he was forced to make his technical skills and delivery and be more on key to sell in the marketplace.
That is when he ramped up to became arguably the most skilled commercial associated emcee in ny and the world.


Art Barr

I didn't say he was the best in COC. That was L. I said his peak was during that time.

To me he was corny in the computers Putin' days. Technically speaking he was ok at that time, he just got corny.

 

[Torrential]

drake

even though I don't fukk with Drake i gotta admit he did improve a lot. His flow was forced as hell in the beginning.

 

[mobbinfms]

Fu-schnicks jay was wack, breh.

He improved by being a skills morph from jaz/big l/geuchi suede/LL COOL j/sauce money.
then, beanie to young chris.
since, those principles are no longer integral to him, company wise.
Is the reason why he has fallen off.

Jay is all pr and payola now.

Duke, is nowhere near skilled like that era.
Which is because he bit and never developed skill for real.
That is why his new material is not really given universal praise like his rd to volume iii era lyrically.

In that era, even emo racists on hiphopinfinity.com, did not front.

Now, jay does not have those higher skiled principles to bite from.
Or peep skill to morph and piggy bac off of.
He has been exposed, completely.
As a matter of fact.
His wack struggle bars, sound like pusha t wrote that bullshyt he spits, now.
I would not be surprised if he was getting scratch vocals from t, like he did Lupe.
shyt, at times i feel sauce and jaz was writing his shyt.
Or he was basically piggy backing/skills morphing off of their shyt, daily.
Duke is nowhere near the unreleased album level.
To rd to volume IIi level of skill.

You do not fall off skillwise like that.
If you are really as sound technically as jay was in those era's.
Which easily point to skill morphing/biting to ghostwriting.

Duke ain't went through no accident and lost his memory or no shyt like that.
It is no excuse.

Also,....
Since he "supposedly" wrote all his rhymes in his head.
Which is a lie,...shyt was/ is the cover up for scratch vocals.
As there is no way you would fall off like he has technical skill wise.
Only scapegoat based excuse he has is,....
He did not really craft/write his shyt down.
So, he has no frame of reference to cite to re-survey his past skill level.
Yet, once you gain a certain grasp technically on your own as an emcee, for real.
You never lose that technical mastery and can channel that.
On no day has the old jay from any era ever shown up again lyrically or skillwise.
Which means, biting, ghostwriting, or piggy-back/skill morphing.

Which is not to be praised and called out accordingly.

All the great emcees with true prolonged mastery of their technical prowess, always improved or came back way better.

Jay has never returned to any era of emcee skill level.
Which is completely telling,......

On no day, have you heard rakim, finesse, LL, krs, melle, g rap or other solid skilled emcees in history.
fluctuate to lower skill levels and not come back way better or just flat out overachieve with no fall off.

Jay is a biter/ skill morph/ghostwritten talent.
Which is all fact and you can check album inserts to even the actual material and hear that shyt.




Art Barr

I like the style he was flipping per RD. I think he fell off bc writing the intricate type shyt that he spit on RD takes time/effort and his heart is no longer in it and he doesn't have the time.

The rest of that essay, while interesting, had nothing to do with my post and was all supposition.

 

[Non Sequitur]

Wow surprised we've gone a whole 6 pages and nobody mentioned Bun B. This nikka is the valedictorian of the 'Rap Academy'.

Bun B wasn't dope until Ridin' Dirty. Don't get me wrong, he's always had memorable verses, but his lyrical ability went up several notches by RD. Murder, Pinky Ring, Diamonds & Wood, One Day, Touched, oohwee.

 

[nieman]

Are y'all talking about lyrics or the ability to make tolerable/entertaining/good music? There is a huge difference, cause a lot of the people being named were and still are wack.

 

[General Mills]

Cam = most improved rapper in history.

From unlistenable clarity, offkey flows and the worst mic presence of the nee rappers from his gen.
to the highest skill executing emcee in every category of rap since 2000.

I am as big of a Cam stan that you will find and I totally co-sign this. . I always hear people say they preferred Cam's earlier flow. Confessions and earlier. To me even back then they were not on par with other rappers. When Come Home With Me dropped and he slowed it down a bit. . . . I bought my first Dipset shirt and never looked back.

 

[General Mills]

cam was not the best in coc.
In revision people say that.
Yet, when coc and 8is enough dropped that was never said.
Cam was biting and basically just as offkey as the original major label 36 chambers version of ghostface.
The reason why he was offkey was a number of reasons.
From still developing Skillwise, to the sonic landscape of pop associated commercial ny rap in the budding stages of jiggy.

When he was forced to make his technical skills and delivery and be more on key to sell in the marketplace.
That is when he ramped up to became arguably the most skilled commercial associated emcee in ny and the world.


Art Barr

 

[Gentle Jones]

BIG BOI

 

[mobbinfms]

definitely Kanye West, he was pure trash to me on the mic in the beginning of his career. i think Nas improved too, as weird as that sounds, he was never "wack" but i'm among the group who thinks he actually got better on IWW and is still getting better and better at certain things. TI too, he was WACK to me in the beginning, i'll never forget i heard that song where he referenced jay-z like twice in it, hahaa, was it "i'm serious"?? i don't remember, but i do remember thinking he was trash. now i just heard him on that "show out" remix, , verse had me open

I liked I'm Serious. Pull up in a blue coupe that damn near clear.

It was weird that he referenced Jay twice on his first single. But not long after that he had the video wearing the RD shirt.

 

[mobbinfms]

Future has regressed music wise on a declining scales in overall quality since dirty sprite.

Vado is significantly improving in the key areas he needed work in.
I am actually glad.
It is good to finally see someone into ramping up his skillset in the pillar of emcee'n.

all voice over talent from drake, weezy and even jeezy can not he credited for improvement.
As they are not creating or writing their own material.
Being, a voice over actor is not a skill.
If it was,..then we need to re-grade Arsenio hall as chunky a and d-tay from hustle and flow.

Also,...gucci has regressed lyrically.
He should not be listed her at all, actually.
Yet, gucci up'd his clarity and intangibles because of his no pad no pencil days.
Backed by his upgrade in resources that include mixing and vocal recording.
I wish Gucci was as potent bar to bar And indepth content wise like in his hold that thought/hard 2 kill days.

He pretty much condensed and downshifted skill syllable wise lyrically.
Once he caught the mainstream drawing eye of people who dissed him all together as an artist in favor of jeezy.
Including, people who were late as hell.


Art Barr

The first guy to say Gucci was a super talented writer and emcee..making it possible for you to even discuss him in this community.

Gucci's always been wack to me. I never paid that dude any attention.

 

[mobbinfms]

Wale is still wack content wise bar-to bar with obsolete offkey skill in the technical category.
He has no chance in hell of being good.
He is all payola.

Duke is the wacker missing member of the questionmark asylum.


Art Barr

Wale was nice when it was lookin like he was gonna work with Mark Ronson. Around the time of the Dance song. Once he dropped that song with Gaga and then became gangsta - it was over for me.

Nice Questionmark Asylum reference!

 

[Rohiggidy]

jeezy
lil wayne
royce 5'9
ross
gunplay
kendrick lamar
big sean
crooked i

 

[Danie84]

Jeezy improved the most