religion of peace, peace

Blackking

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At one or another college or university, usually in the informal gatherings after I had spoken, perhaps a dozen generally white-complexioned people would come up to me, identifying themselves as Arabian, Middle Eastern or North African Muslims who happened to be visiting, studying, or living in the United States. They had said to me that, my white-indicting statements notwithstanding, they felt I was sincere in considering myself a Muslim -- and they felt if I was exposed to what they always called "true Islam," I would "understand it, and embrace it." Automatically, as a follower of Elijah, I had bridled whenever this was said. But in the privacy of my own thoughts after several of these experiences, I did question myself: if one was sincere in professing a religion, why should he balk at broadening his knowledge of that religion?

Those orthodox Muslims whom I had met, one after another, had urged me to meet and talk with a Dr. Mahmoud Youssef Shawarbi. . . . Then one day Dr. Shawarbi and I were introduced by a newspaperman. He was cordial. He said he had followed me in the press; I said I had been told of him, and we talked for fifteen or twenty minutes. We both had to leave to make appointments we had, when he dropped on me something whose logic never would get out of my head. He said, "No man has believed perfectly until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

-Malcolm X


The bold is one the main Islamic points and reasons for the practice.
 

WaveGang

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Religion of peace?

so we're gonna just act like the Muslim Crusades didn't happen no

we gonna act like the indigenous people of north africa calmly killed themselves and then decided to convert

come on bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 

Shogun

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After the expansion of Islam into the Middle East from the Arabian Peninsula, Jews, along with Christians and Zoroastrians, typically had the legal status of dhimmi. As such, they were accorded certain rights and generally not persecuted for their religious beliefs, unlike many other parts of Medieval Europe.

Are you trying to imply that the map below represents the peaceful spread of Islam?

Ummayad_Empire


I was always under the impression that within 200 years of it founding, Islam conquered the largest empire in the world at the time (excluding China).

http://www.fordham.edu/Halsall/source/642Egypt-conq2.asp

After fighting three battles with the Romans, the Muslims conquered them. So when the chief men of the city saw these things, they went to Amr, and received a certificate of security for the city, that it might not be plundered. This kind of treaty which Muhammad, the chief of the Arabs, taught them, they called the Law; and he says with regard to it: "As for the province of Egypt and any city that agrees with its inhabitants to pay the land-tax to you and to submit to your authority, make a treaty with them, and do them no injury. But plunder and take as prisoners those that will not consent to this and resist you." For this reason the Muslims kept their hands off the province and its inhabitants, but destroyed the nation of the Romans, and their general who was named Marianus. And those of the Romans who escaped fled to Alexandria, and shut its gates upon the Arabs, and fortified themselves within the city.

The Moslems fought fiercely against them and invested them for three months. At last, 'Amr reduced the city by the sword and plundered all that was in it, sparing its inhabitants of whom none was killed or taken captive. He reduced them to the position of dhimmis like the people of Alyunah. He communicated the news of the victory to 'Umar through Mu'awiyah ibn-Hudaij al-Kindi (later as-Sakuni) and sent with him the fifth.

The Greeks wrote to Constantine, son of Heraclius, who was their king at that time, telling him how few the Moslems in Alexandria were, and how humiliating the Greeks' condition was, and how they had to pay poll-tax

http://www.fordham.edu/Halsall/source/conqspain.asp

When Tarik landed, soldiers from Cordova came to meet him; and seeing the small number of his companions they despised him on that account. They then fought. The battle with Tarik was severe. They were routed, and he did not cease from the slaughter of them till they reached the town of Cordova. When Roderic heard of this, he came to their rescue from Toledo. They then fought in a place of the name of Shedunia, in a valley which is called this day the valley of Umm-Hakim [on July 11, 711, at the mouth of the Barbate river]. They fought a severe battle; but God, mighty and great, killed Roderic and his companions. Mugheyth Errumi, a slave of Welid, was then the commander of Tarik's cavalry. Mugheyth Errumi went in the direction of Cordova, Tarik passing over to Toledo. He, then, entered it, and asked for the table, having nothing else to occupy himself. This, as the men of the Bible relate, was the table of Suleyman Ibn Dawid, may the blessing of God be upon him.

Also, does this sound like a place you'd like to live as a non-Muslim?

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/1772-jewsinislam.asp

The Answer Of The Shaikh Hasan Al Kafrawi, The Shafiite [Professor of canon law in Cairo, d. 1788 CE]

Praise be to God, the guide of the right way!

The decision given by the Shaikh ar-Ramli [a great Cairo legal authority, d. 1596], by the Shaikh al-Islam [the Muslim religious authority in Constantinople], and by the learned scholars whose decrees can hardly be written down here, may be worded as follows: "It is forbidden to the tolerated peoples living on Muslim territory to clothe themselves in the same manner as the chiefs, the scholars, and the nobles. They should not be allowed to clothe themselves in costly fabrics which have been cut in the modes which are forbidden to them, in order that they may not offend the sensibilities of poor Muslims and in order that their faith in their religion should not be shaken by this. [Poor Muslims may regret their faith when they see how well-dressed the Christians and Jews are.]

"They should not be permitted to employ mounts like the Muslims. They must use neither saddles, nor iron-stirrups, in order to be distinguished from the true believers. They must under no circumstance ride horses because of the noble character of this animal. The Most-High has said [Qu'ran 8:62]: 'And through powerful squadrons [of horses] through which you will strike terror into your own and God's enemies.' [A verse of the Qu'ran makes a good support for a law. Verses may even be torn out of their context.]

"They should not be permitted to take Muslims into their service because God has glorified the people of Islam. He has given them His aid and has given them a guarantee by these words [Qu'ran 3:140]: 'Surely God will never give preeminence to unbelievers over the true believers.' Now this is just what is happening today, for their servants are Muslims taken from among men of a mature age or from those who are still young. This is one of the greatest scandals to which the guardians of authority must put an end. It is wrong to greet them even with a simple 'how-do-you-do'; to serve them, even for wages, at the baths or in what relates to their riding animals; and it is forbidden to accept anything from their hand, for that would be an act of debasement by the faithful. They are forbidden while going through the streets to ape the manners of the Muslims, and still less those of the cities of the religion. They shall only walk single-file, and in narrow lanes they must withdraw even more into the most cramped part of the road.

"One may read that which follows in Bukhari and Muslim [religious authorities of the ninth century]: 'Jews and Christians shall never begin a greeting; if you encounter one of them on the road, push him into the narrowest and tightest spot.' The absence of every mark of consideration toward them is obligatory for us; we ought never to give them the place of honor in an assembly when a Muslim is present. This is in order to humble them and to honor the true believers. They should under no circumstances acquire Muslim slaves, white or black. Therefore they should get rid of the slaves which they now have for the), have no right to own them. If one of their slaves who was formerly an infidel, becomes a Muslim, he shall be removed from them, and his master, willingly or unwillingly, shall be compelled to sell him and to accept the price for him.

"It is no longer permitted them to put themselves, with respect to their houses, on an equal footing with the dwellings of their Muslim neighbors, and still less to build their buildings higher. If they are of the same height, or higher, it is incumbent upon us to pull them down to a size a little less than the houses of the true believers. This conforms to the word of the Prophet: 'Islam rules, and nothing shall raise itself above it.' This is also in order to hinder them from knowing where our weak spots are and in order to make a distinction between their dwellings and ours.

"They are forbidden to build new churches, chapels, or monasteries in any Muslim land. We should destroy everything that is of new construction in every place, such as Cairo, for instance, founded under the Muslim religion, for it is said in a tradition of Umar: 'No church shall be built in Islam.' They shall no longer be permitted to repair the parts of these [post-Islamic] buildings which are in ruins. However, the old buildings [of pre-Islamic times] which are found in a land whose population had embraced Islam need not be destroyed. They shall not, however, be enlarged by means of repairs or otherwise. In case the tolerated peoples [Jews, Christians, etc.] act contrary to these provisions we will be obliged to destroy everything that has been added to the original size of the building. [Only pre-Islamic churches and synagogues may be repaired; new ones must be torn down.]

"Entrance into Muslim territory by infidels of foreign lands under the pact guaranteeing protection to the tolerated peoples is permitted only for the time necessary to settle their business affairs. If they exceed this period, their safe-conduct having expired, they will be put to death or be subject to the payment of the head-tax.[Jews and Christians of foreign lands must pay a special head-tax if they wish to remain permanently in Muslim lands.] As to those with whom the ruler may have signed treaties, and with whom he, for whatever motive, may have granted a temporary truce, they form only the smallest fraction. But they, too, must not pass the fixed limit of more than four months [without paying the tax], particularly if this occurs at a time when Islam is prosperous and flourishing. The Most-High has said [Qu'ran 2: 2341: 'They should wait four months,' and he has again said [47:37]: 'Do not show any cowardice, and do not at all invite the unbelievers to a peace when you have the upper-hand and may God be with you.'

"Their men and women are ordered to wear garments different from those of the Muslims in order to be distinguished from them. They are forbidden to exhibit anything which might scandalize us, as, for instance, their fermented liquors, and if they do not conceal these from us, we are obliged to pour them into the street."

This which precedes is only a part of that which has been written on this subject, and if we should wish to mention it all here it would take too long. But this brief recital will be sufficient for those men whose intelligence God has enlightened, to whom he has given the breath of life, and whose inner thoughts he has sanctified. Now let us beg the Sovereign Master of the world to extend His justice over humanity universally, in order that they may direct all their efforts toward raising with firmness the banner of the religion.

In a tradition of the sincere and faithful [Calif Abu Bekr, 632-634] it is likewise said: "The abolition of a sacrilegious innovation is preferable to the permanent operation of the law." In another tradition it is also said: "One hour of justice is worth more than sixty years of ritual." The verses of the Qu'ran and the traditions are very numerous on this subject, and they are known by all the faithful. God has cursed the former nations because they have not condemned scandalous things; and He has said [Qu'ran 5:82]: "They [the children of Israel] seek not at all to turn one another from the bad actions which they have committed. 0 how detestable were their actions. But He has punished these men because of their obstinate conduct." The Most-High has also said [Qu'ran 9: 1 131: "Those who bid what is right and forbid what is wrong, who observe the divine precepts, will be rewarded. Announce these glad tidings to the Muslims."

May the Most High God admit us to the number of this company and may He lead us in the paths of His favor. Certainly God is powerful in everything; He is full of mercy to His servants; He sees all.
 

Blackking

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Religion of peace?

so we're gonna just act like the Muslim Crusades didn't happen no

we gonna act like the indigenous people of north africa calmly killed themselves and then decided to convert

come on bruhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
African Slavery 101 -- Slavery of Africans -- Slavery in Africa

No, there's no need to "act" breh.

So if we aren't acting then there's really no need to defend or attack Islam specifically.

I will just say that no concept or idea on Earth isn't immune to self defense or all out violence. The way we pin violence on certain beliefs or blast certain ideas is to be completely ignorant of the political and territorial factors around the time-frames.

People have fought over land, enslaved people, disputed territories since Ancient Africa; there was violence even before the creation of Asian and European nations. During the Christian Crusades for example Jews were worse off than during Hitlers reign. Christian crusaders chopped up so many Muslims and Jews that there was blood up to soldiers knees. I would have to be ignorant to assume that those people did this because they were reading something about Jesus in the Bible.

Have you actually read books on the early spread of Islam? I think it would surprise you. One thing that you will notice is that Africans cared more about trade and unity of their kingdoms than about ideas that only slightly varied. The transition from sun, moon, animal, Christianity, or whatever worship was easy because these people wanted the trade and if you read about the conversations you see that they were basically like 'fuk it' for the most part. Not random google searches but actual books. Sure there were a few wars, but those wars weren't because of religious differences. It doesn't seem interesting to you that most of our most important American black revolutionaries were with friendly to Islam or Muslims. You MADE a thread on Thomas Sankara... Do you know how many times this man read the freakin Quran????? Not saying he was a Muslim or that Islam is the reason he was great.. I'm just saying he was open enough to realize what things are and what history was not. Sankara was a Christian.. but he wasn't antagonistic to his people and he was knowledge about Real World History - so he droppped maddd hadiths and Qu’ran quotes in his speeches.

Muslims first came to Africa because they were political and religious refugees. Africans accepted them whole heartedly. They didn't first come to Africa to fight n all that shyt. Also, wars were fought over territory, conversions weren't forced. Half of Africa is Muslim and most of the spread was by native Africans. Recent conversions of blacks around the world are voluntary and unify billions of people.

Islam was a modernizing influence, imposing a consistent order among different societies, strengthening powers of government and breaking down ethnic loyalties.

Unlike Christianity, Islam tolerated traditional values, allowing a man to have more than one wife. For many, this made conversion to Islam easier and less upsetting than conversion to Christianity.

In the early centuries of its existence, Islam in Africa had a dynamic and turbulent history, with reforming movements and dynasties clashing and succeeding each other. Gaining power depended on securing trade routes into gold-producing areas in Sub-Saharan Africa. Islamic rulers expanded north as well as south. In the last quarter of the 11th century, Islam dominated the Mediterranean world.

In the 14th century the Black Death came from Europe and seriously undermined the social and economic life of North Africa, or the Maghreb, as it is known. However Islam remained the dominant religion.

From the 16th to the 19th century, much of the Maghreb was under Ottoman rule. By the 1880's, Islam had taken root in one third of the continent.
 

WaveGang

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I didnt read

Islam was used as a tool for colonialism by Arabs in the same way Christianity was for Europeans.

#Fact

Don't bother dispute this
 

Blackking

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Are you trying to imply that the map below represents the peaceful spread of Islam?
Not at all.. Just saying the things that I've mentioned in the OP.


If me and my people believe in worshiping Jupiter and we have a culture that is centered around that; When I want to expand, or want new territory, or defend an attack by a neighboring nation..... you could say that not only our worship of Jupiter is what sparked the violence but also that us having a holiday worshiping the all the sun like stars in far away Galaxies are also to blame. We can then say when the conquered people abide by the timeless concept of get down or lay down, that these conquest were the spread of Jupiter lover movements.

Or we can see things for what they are.
 

Blackking

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I didnt read

Islam was used as a tool for colonialism by Arabs in the same way Christianity was for Europeans.

#Fact

Don't bother dispute this
The fact that you didn't read lets me know everything I need to know about you.

It's OK though, some of my people are like that.

Peace.

maybe you can watch short videos if you are unable to comprehend a few sentences. I actually haven't watched this video, so I might not agree with whatever is said... but at least if we are to attack things we should attack things that are effecting our families during our time
[ame=http://youtu.be/ggGG9PSLwMs]Malcolm X -- Islam is the Best Religion - YouTube[/ame]
 

NubianVitruvian

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There are things to learn from Islam, i follow Malcolm X personally. But I saw a quote on Facebook, People have Rights, Ideas don't.
 

Blackking

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I don't believe overall Muslims make the world a worse place. Aside from most Muslims - simply living their lives.. while also contributing to welfare of their fellow men as much as they possibly can... When given the opportunity, Muslims are require to use technology and education to better human in some way.

The framework of Islamic thought represents a comprehensive view of life and the universe. A Muslim is therefore required to acquire both religious and worldly knowledge. In fact, Islam advocated knowledge at a time when the whole world was engulfed in ignorance. In a matter of years the early generation of Muslims became a learned and refined people, for Islam had awakened in them the faculty of intellect. Those early Muslims understood from the teachings of their religion that useful knowledge is necessary for the benefit of the self and of humanity. Hence, they pursued it to such a degree that they surpassed other nations in development and productivity and carried the torch of civilization for many centuries.

Muslim history abounds with examples of scientific and cultural ingenuity. Muslims inherited the knowledge of the nations that came before them, developed it and placed it in the context of a precise moral framework. Muslim scholarship made a vital contribution to the enrichment and advancement of human civilization.

While Europe was still in the dark ages, religious Muslims were making great advances in the fields of medicine, mathematics, physics, astronomy, geography, architecture, literature, and history documentation to mention but a few. Many important new procedures were transmitted to medieval Europe from Muslim regions, such as Arabic numerals with the principle of the zero vital to the advancement of mathematics and the use of algebra. Sophisticated instruments, including the astrolabe and the quadrant, as well as good navigational maps, were first developed by Muslims. Only after people lost sight of their religious beliefs and obligations did the scientific achievements of the Muslim world cease and fall into obscurity.

Similarly, Islam does not now oppose any modern inventions that are beneficial to mankind. It is sufficient that they be used in the name of God and for His cause. In reality, machines, instruments and devices have no religion or homeland. They can be used for either good or bad objectives, and the way they are used can affect much of the earth's population. Even something so simple as a glass can be filled either with a nourishing drink or with a poison. Television can provide education or immorality. It is up to the user to decide, and a Muslim is commanded to make good use of all the means at his disposal while being prohibited from causing harm to himself or others. Failure to use the proper means toward benefit is, in effect, a deprecation of Islamic teachings.
 

Blackking

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There are things to learn from Islam, i follow Malcolm X personally. But I saw a quote on Facebook, People have Rights, Ideas don't.
I agree, people do have rights.... including the right to free speech.. I don't personally care if someone despises Islam because I know it's misguided.. but I also know that they are generalizing billions of people. However, the idea or concept doesn't have the right to be immune to criticism.

It's not like Malcolm was pro black because he was Muslim. Islam might have been what saved him.. but love for his people is what motivated him. Also, he evolved in his Islamic belief... he was shot.. maybe later on in life he would have became an atheist... but as long as he would have been on the same mission it wouldn't have mattered to me.
 

NubianVitruvian

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I agree, people do have rights.... including the right to free speech.. I don't personally care if someone despises Islam because I know it's misguided.. but I also know that they are generalizing billions of people. However, the idea or concept doesn't have the right to be immune to criticism.

It's not like Malcolm was pro black because he was Muslim. Islam might have been what saved him.. but love for his people is what motivated him. Also, he evolved in his Islamic belief... he was shot.. maybe later on in life he would have became an atheist... but as long as he would have been on the same mission it wouldn't have mattered to me.

Malcolm was pro people. Islam was the the vehicle through which he preached this. Which I think needs to stop, not Islam per se but getting attached to anything. People are People. We have thoughts and ideas, words, and languages. We all come into this world Tabula Rasa, a blank slate, the world writes on us, we write on the world, we write on each other and then we return to the Essence.
 

WaveGang

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The fact that you didn't read lets me know everything I need to know about you.

It's OK though, some of my people are like that.

Peace.

maybe you can watch short videos if you are unable to comprehend a few sentences. I actually haven't watched this video, so I might not agree with whatever is said... but at least if we are to attack things we should attack things that are effecting our families during our time
Malcolm X -- Islam is the Best Religion - YouTube

NO! I have no problem with Muslims/Islam what so ever. I was a Muslim myself for many years.

However, I gained the knowledge on the history of my race and it opened my eyes.

I was in denial much how you are atm but I took a step back and preceded to venture into the history of Africa and its peoples from an unbias viewpoint.

My sig is relevant at this moment in time :aicmon:
 
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