Reza Aslan rebuts Bill Maher about Islam

[Broke Wave]

I don't expect anything from white people like @the cac mamba . I don't expect him to understand anything about culture, or how india is still transitioning almost directly from a feudal system. You better believe that guy would say the same shyt about black people if he wasn't on this site.

Any way I don't have time to deal with stupid racists that's @BarNone 's job. One of the reasons i avoid this subforum now is because a lot of posters here like to use india and indians as a punching bag.

Exactly... I have a hard time believing someone would say Indians are sub human yet somehow when it comes to Africa and Blacks adopt a liberal and open minded point of view. He is a racist white guy who I've noticed has said shyt without reprimand

 

[No1]

@Broletariat is this not racism? I think this dude doesn't even know he's a racist.

This post represents why people think @Brown_Pride and I are biased towards Jews and Muslims to a lesser degree. In the past year, only those people report posts when they're offended and we act on about 1 out of every 5 or 6. I've literally had to ask @Broletariat if he wants me to delete some shyt about Indians before and he said "let them show their ignorance." Some people report posts and some don't. I didn't even see that post just now...I had to be tagged in.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

Exactly... I have a hard time believing someone would say Indians are sub human yet somehow when it comes to Africa and Blacks adopt a liberal and open minded point of view. He is a racist white guy who I've noticed has said shyt without reprimand

I think at some point we have to acknowledge a lot of these posters are part time st0rmfr0nt trolls or something that use the internet to vent . They like the lack of rules and the open race talk that isn't on forums here and they can manipulate and wind up people of color for leisure . But they know better than to directly attack black people because that's still the core of the forum.

This post represents why people think @Brown_Pride and I are biased towards Jews and Muslims to a lesser degree. In the past year, only those people report posts when they're offended and we act on about 1 out of every 5 or 6. I've literally had to ask @Broletariat if he wants me to delete some shyt about Indians before and he said "let them show their ignorance." Some people report posts and some don't. I didn't even see that post just now...I had to be tagged in.

And yea, you should keep it that way. It's not like it's going to change these guys views anyway. One thing i learned from the last couple of years is some people just aren't willing to take even a single mental step in anyone else's shoes. Empathy is an undervalued trait in these discussions

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

01:41 "Female Genital Mutilation is not an Islamic problem, but an african problem."

While FGM is a major epidemic in the Sub-Saharan and North east Africa, its also located in Southeast Asian countries, such as Indonesia and Malaysia where the practices of 'female circumcision' rose with the surge of Islam.

Historical records suggest female circumcision in Indonesia started and became prevalent with the arrival of Islam in the 13th century as part of its drive to convert people to Islam. Seno Sastroamidjojo's description of the operation was one of the most detailed : a special scissor (goenting soenat) was used, or a knife and a piece of tumeric (koenyif) as support. The female moedim held the clitoris between her fingers so that the limit between the glans and the main part of the clitoris was visible, and there she cut a part off, which is called daging charam (religiously proscribed flesh). The common belief was that if much blood flowed, she would have a lucky life, otherwise, her life would be full of adversity. The girl was then given a second bath, and would recite the shahadat. Only then would she start learning the Koran - whereas the boy was circumcised only after finishing the Koran lessons .After a short prayer, the piece of daging charam was buried. When asked about the meaning of this circumcision, people said it was for their daughters to become Muslims (eerst Mohammedanen worderi) (Schrieke 1921 : 549-551).

Keep in mind that Buddhism and Hinduism were the predominant religions in Southeast Asia before the arrival of Islam; male as well as female genital mutilation was prohibited in its religious beliefs. I believe that this undermines Aslan's argument that female circumcision is purely a pre-Islamic custom, or the theory that religion never introduced this practice. and it also obviously disproves that it is not just an African problem either.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

01:41 "Female Genital Mutilation is not an Islamic problem, but an african problem."

While FGM is a major epidemic in the Sub-Saharan and North east Africa, its also located in Southeast Asian countries, such as Indonesia and Malaysia where the practices of 'female circumcision' rose with the surge of Islam.

Historical records suggest female circumcision in Indonesia started and became prevalent with the arrival of Islam in the 13th century as part of its drive to convert people to Islam. Seno Sastroamidjojo's description of the operation was one of the most detailed : a special scissor (goenting soenat) was used, or a knife and a piece of tumeric (koenyif) as support. The female moedim held the clitoris between her fingers so that the limit between the glans and the main part of the clitoris was visible, and there she cut a part off, which is called daging charam (religiously proscribed flesh). The common belief was that if much blood flowed, she would have a lucky life, otherwise, her life would be full of adversity. The girl was then given a second bath, and would recite the shahadat. Only then would she start learning the Koran - whereas the boy was circumcised only after finishing the Koran lessons .After a short prayer, the piece of daging charam was buried. When asked about the meaning of this circumcision, people said it was for their daughters to become Muslims (eerst Mohammedanen worderi) (Schrieke 1921 : 549-551).

Keep in mind that Buddhism and Hinduism were the predominant religions in Southeast Asia before the arrival of Islam; male as well as female genital mutilation was prohibited in its religious beliefs. I believe that this undermines Aslan's argument that female circumcision is purely a pre-Islamic custom, or the theory that religion never introduced this practice. and it also obviously disproves that it is not just an African problem either.

all this history going back past 100 years is bunk and unnecessary

No one cares.

We're talking about RIGHT NOW.

and yes, Islam is still a problem

I dont disagree with you, but we shouldn't even have to go this far

 

[Berniewood Hogan]

smilies should be banned from HL.

 

[Shogun]

 

[CHL]

that reading comprehension struggle is real.

I never said the "liberal media doesn't cover women's rights" in Somalia Pakistan. that would be the Straw man you propped up.


I said liberals in America don't really give a shyt about issues like gender equality in Somalia and Pakistan. I clarified my position & gave you an example of the hypocrisy I was talking about, but you don't seem to understand that saying "liberals often have a disingenuous and self-serving approach towards women's issues in the Muslim world" is not the same as saying "liberals don't cover women's issues in the Muslim world".

since I have no interest in debating this misrepresentation of my argument, I'll tell you what fukkboy: you can debate my ignore list all you like.

Then address this! You made the claim, you back it up. How is the coverage of women's issues in Somalia and Pakistan disingenuous and self-serving? Don't have a cry, just answer the question.

 

[CHL]

the superiority is clearly in the quality of life, and the effort that people make to get to america. i dont necessrily disagree that western cultures collapse is imminent (at some point)...but what culture is gonna step in and replace it? chinese who are tired of working for 50 cents an hour to turn their country into a toxic wasteland? indians who cant even manage to have half of their population wipe their own ass like a human being? russia ?

who's gonna step up?

 

[Ritzy Sharon]

Then address this! You made the claim, you back it up. How is the coverage of women's issues in Somalia and Pakistan disingenuous and self-serving? Don't have a cry, just answer the question.

I gave you an example of what I was referring to in my second reply in this god awful exchange, but instead of addressing it, you decided to go HAM on your Straw man.

you go me m8. when some insufferable idiot insists on wasting my time, I get pissed off.

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...e_fearful_about_when_they_think_of_islam.html

 

[emoney]

http://atheistanalysis.com/open-letter-reza-aslan/

On CNN you go on to say regarding female genital mutilation:

“I mean, the argument about the female genital mutilation being an Islamic problem is a perfect example of that. It’s not an Islamic problem. It’s an African problem …And that’s actually empirically factually incorrect … It’s a Central African problem. Eritrea has almost 90 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.”

WOW, hold on, you think Eritea is a Christian country? How strange that only 50% of the country is Christian, and 48% is Islamic. You forgot to mention that, maybe you thought nobody would fact check you, my bad.

Also Ethiopia a Christian country? Of course in the 4th century it adopted Christianity as the state religion – but unless you forgot, it is not the 4th century any more, how embarrassing of a “historian” to forget – Christianity is no longer the state religion, and only has 62% Christians and 34% Muslims which is no doubt more than 50%, but if the best evidence you have is calling 50% & 62% Christian majorities, then you have a big problem. Sorry again, I guess you thought being on CNN you wouldn’t get fact checked.
Let us look at the evidence against you, as the evidence you used yourself was dire and counter-productive to your own means. Is female genital mutilation an Islamic problem or not?

Somalia 98% FGM – 99.8% Muslim & less than 0.1% Christian
Djibouti 93% FGM – 94% Muslim 6% Christian
Eqypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 9% Christian
Guinea 96% FGM – 85% Muslim & only 8% Christian
Mali 89% FGM – 90% Muslim only 5% Christian
Sudan 88% FGM – 98% Muslim >2% Christian
Sierra Leone 88% FGM – 71% Muslim 27% Christian

Out of the 29 main countries that conduct female genital mutilation in Africa – only 8 are Christian majority countries, with the remaining 21 all being an Islamic majority, go figure! Why didn’t you mention these statistics? Because they clearly prove you wrong, that’s why.

Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%

But you don’t believe female genital mutilation is an Islamic problem, even when 21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM are Islamic? That = 70%

So 44.6% of African countries = African problem!
but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam!

 

[thekingsmen]

http://atheistanalysis.com/open-letter-reza-aslan/

On CNN you go on to say regarding female genital mutilation:

“I mean, the argument about the female genital mutilation being an Islamic problem is a perfect example of that. It’s not an Islamic problem. It’s an African problem …And that’s actually empirically factually incorrect … It’s a Central African problem. Eritrea has almost 90 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Ethiopia has 75 percent female genital mutilation. It’s a Christian country. Nowhere else in the Muslim, Muslim-majority states is female genital mutilation an issue.”

WOW, hold on, you think Eritea is a Christian country? How strange that only 50% of the country is Christian, and 48% is Islamic. You forgot to mention that, maybe you thought nobody would fact check you, my bad.

Also Ethiopia a Christian country? Of course in the 4th century it adopted Christianity as the state religion – but unless you forgot, it is not the 4th century any more, how embarrassing of a “historian” to forget – Christianity is no longer the state religion, and only has 62% Christians and 34% Muslims which is no doubt more than 50%, but if the best evidence you have is calling 50% & 62% Christian majorities, then you have a big problem. Sorry again, I guess you thought being on CNN you wouldn’t get fact checked.
Let us look at the evidence against you, as the evidence you used yourself was dire and counter-productive to your own means. Is female genital mutilation an Islamic problem or not?

Somalia 98% FGM – 99.8% Muslim & less than 0.1% Christian
Djibouti 93% FGM – 94% Muslim 6% Christian
Eqypt 91% FGM – 94.9% Muslim & only 9% Christian
Guinea 96% FGM – 85% Muslim & only 8% Christian
Mali 89% FGM – 90% Muslim only 5% Christian
Sudan 88% FGM – 98% Muslim >2% Christian
Sierra Leone 88% FGM – 71% Muslim 27% Christian

Out of the 29 main countries that conduct female genital mutilation in Africa – only 8 are Christian majority countries, with the remaining 21 all being an Islamic majority, go figure! Why didn’t you mention these statistics? Because they clearly prove you wrong, that’s why.

Let’s look at your mathematics; you believe that because 21 out of 47 African countries adhere to the barbaric procedure of female genital mutilation, that it is an African problem. 21 out of 47 = 44.6%

But you don’t believe female genital mutilation is an Islamic problem, even when 21 out of the 30 countries in the world that practise FGM are Islamic? That = 70%

So 44.6% of African countries = African problem!
but 70% of Islamic countries = erm … nothing to do with Islam!

When was Sierra Leone, Mali, Guinea, ever considered Muslim countries? Eritrea has more Christian percentage than that which is around almost 70%. Ethiopia historically has been Christian majority since forever and still is. The Flag with Lion of Judah with the Christian Cross was an emblem on their flag until 1995. The atheist clearly needs to do his research better. He truly doesn't want to name the other countries because they are tribal traditions and not religion
Reza is correct.

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

The countries that practice it are west, central and east African countries with the exception of Egypt (which I doubt its 91 % anyway ), it's just so many of these countries happen to be msulim majority. It's not practiced in North Africa, Arab nations or south/south east Asia, so yeah it's a regional problem (I wouldn't exactly call it an African problem and def not an Islamic one). I don't know of anything encouraging it within the religion and the majority of the muslim world don't practice it or even consider it

 

[emoney]

When was Sierra Leone, Mali, Guinea, ever considered Muslim countries? Eritrea has more Christian percentage than that which is around almost 70%. Ethiopia historically has been Christian majority since forever and still is. The Flag with Lion of Judah with the Christian Cross was an emblem on their flag until 1995. The atheist clearly needs to do his research better. He truly doesn't want to name the other countries because they are tribal traditions and not religion
Reza is correct.

They are predominantly Muslim countries.