Richard Sherman on Matthew Stafford’s HOF case

[murksiderock]

Coming in the league with 40% of the Top 10 Ever is simply a case of born in the wrong era. If he was born in 93 instead of 88 he'd be priming/peaking as those guys are retired or declining.

Of the 9 you have him with, there isn't really 5 I'd take without hesitation...there's some sort of debate for most of them. And at least 3 of them are getting in the Hall at some point anyway so this doesn't slam the door shut on him.

The current Big 4 priming and peaking while he's closer to 40 than 30 is natural order, that's not really a knock.

He likely won't get in, but his case study is interesting because people brush off the polarization between the franchise he gave 12 years to versus the respect he has among his peers. It's also a microcosm of the HOF outlook because the '00-10s group of QBs outside of the 4 GOATs challenges previous markers.

Also the Pro Bowl and All-Pro argument moving Forward is going to get odd. The modern Big 4 are all in the same conference so they can't rack up Bowls on one another.

And since AP1 QB = MVP you can't knock somebody for not having 3 or 4 AP1s.

You seriously think Stafford is a Hall Of Famer? For his career, where would you rank him within his position? That's all it should really boil down to. Was he one of the very best players, at his posituon, of his era?

The answer is cleanly and flatly, no...

The All-Pros and Pro Bowl arguments are new ones, that's not something the NFL Hall has historically hung it's hat on. It's only being mentioned about Stafford and Eli because they have so few of them. They played in a conference where only Rodgers and Brees were All-Timers. Having just 6 Pro Bowls between then is absolutely an indictment----->but the reason they shouldn't be Famers is because they weren't Hall Of Fame players...

For an historicallly inept franchise? The Lions were not some stacked team that Stafford played on

And they'd have a playoff win if not for the refs in 2015 against Dallas

And the Lions didn't have a #1 defense for all of Stafford's tenure, they had 1 season where they had a top 5 ranked defense his entire time there.

Quick, name me a Hall Of Fame quarterback who went the first 12 years of his career without winning a playoff game. I'll be here waiting for your results...

Detroit did get hosed by the refs in '14, but look, he played in Detroit 11 other seasons besides that ONE. We gotta stop playing this game, he was the real Tracy McGrady of quarterbacks...

A Hall Of Fame player at the QB position is winning a playoff game within a dozen years. A dozen years, fam. Not even only 5 years like LA Goff, and yall dont give Goff this much grace...,

ROMO WAS BETTER THAN
STAFFORD AND ELI.

HE WONT BE SNIFFING
THE HOF AND NEITHER SHOULD THEY

PRO FOOTBALL HOF
WAS ALWAYS ABOUT THE BEST
OF THE BEST
AND WAS NEVER BASED ON IF YOU WON A SB


​

100,000% and if they lower this shyt to basketball standards it'll be an embarrassment. This man's entire career narrative changed with one season...

 

[murksiderock]

Big Ben
Rivers

Eli

Stafford
Ryan
Palmer
Romo

Rivers and Ben are hall of famers. Eli should be in, you can't tell the story of the league without him.


If Stafford wins a second one, then he should go in.

Rivers is not a Hall Of Famer, neither is Eli. Ben is...

Eli will get in at some point but he was as average as the day is long...

2. Your team was ass for other reasons than qb

Part of the Lions struggles are because of the quarterback. How soon mf's forget. Detroit Stafford was notorious for failing to bring his A-game vs elite opponents, bringing mediocre play when the game was in the balance, then running up garbage time stats to mount fruitless comebacks in 4thQ's they were down multiple scores in...

Like, this was literally the read on his career, it happened so often. Its like NFL heads got hit the Men In Black flash thing when it comes to his Detroit career...

In fairness, he certainly was far from the worst problem in Detroit. But that team struggling to consistently contend for the playoffs, was in part due to how their quarterback, Matthew Stafford, was inconsistent in the games you absolutely needed him to be an f'in Hall Of Fame quarterback...

A lot of teams that should win don't necessarily win. That's what makes the NFL playoffs what it is. Again you can't name anybody worth a damn outside of Calvin and you're using 1 game to talk about 11 years. While also ignoring that the team they lost too was a 12-win Dallas team.

They don't have to be historically bad for his entire tenure, it's the fact that they're a historically poorly-ran team and the difference that Stafford was able to make stands out, regardless of how mediocre it may be in a vacuum.

Alright then. Individual seasons added as another factor. Which means that the team wins you chose to harp on while ignoring everything else I listed doesn't guarantee anything.

Like stats.
Or health.
Or stats/success of the 8-10 other talented QBs in the same conference.

You're welcome.

Stafford came to a terrible franchise, no doubt about it...

There wasn't 8-10 other QBs in his conference that were as talented as he was, though...

The Detroit Lions went 30 years without a playoff victory. 17 18 of those years had nothing to do with Stafford.

From 2001-08 they posted a 31-97 (.242) record. Nobody you're talking about came to a franchise with that type of stretch.

So yes it does.

 

[Shadow King]

You seriously think Stafford is a Hall Of Famer? For his career, where would you rank him within his position? That's all it should really boil down to. Was he one of the very best players, at his posituon, of his era?

The answer is cleanly and flatly, no...

The All-Pros and Pro Bowl arguments are new ones, that's not something the NFL Hall has historically hung it's hat on. It's only being mentioned about Stafford and Eli because they have so few of them. They played in a conference where only Rodgers and Brees were All-Timers. Having just 6 Pro Bowls between then is absolutely an indictment----->but the reason they shouldn't be Famers is because they weren't Hall Of Fame players...

Quick, name me a Hall Of Fame quarterback who went the first 12 years of his career without winning a playoff game. I'll be here waiting for your results...

Detroit did get hosed by the refs in '14, but look, he played in Detroit 11 other seasons besides that ONE. We gotta stop playing this game, he was the real Tracy McGrady of quarterbacks...

A Hall Of Fame player at the QB position is winning a playoff game within a dozen years. A dozen years, fam. Not even only 5 years like LA Goff, and yall dont give Goff this much grace...,

100,000% and if they lower this shyt to basketball standards it'll be an embarrassment. This man's entire career narrative changed with one season...

I'm not necessarily arguing that he's a HOF. His resume doesn't stack up. That can't be retconned.

I'm saying entering a league with 40% to the Top 10 ever all dominating at 1 time is a harsh criteria to overcome, and expecting someone 35+ to be with guys 8-10 years his junior is unlikely.

I'm also saying that the 9 you named in his boat don't necessarily shut the door on him because about 33% of them will be getting a gold jacket whether we think they deserve it or not. Pre-2000s most of them would be Top 4/5 of that era.

They're all somewhat Wrong Era victims as were not gonna find another 20-year window with 4 GOATs hogging up the penthouse floor.

Rogers and Brees may have been the only All-Timers, but they were not the only quarterbacks in the conference.

Cam was an MVP.
Ryan was an MVP.
Eli Manning the New York Giant stole a couple.
Romo existed and existed as a Dallas Cowboy.

My main argument is that the franchise he was drafted to robbed him of any real chance of racking up accomplishments. Almost everybody named will go 0-3 with Detroit, and I don't really believe they would give Detroit more than three chances either.

I've gone back and forth for a few pages with bro so I don't really fell a need to rehash those arguments emphasizing what he was walking into and expected to save. There weren't 8-10 QBs in the NFC as talented but ignoring a team needing 8 years to win 30 games and having 8 winning seasons before him and Barry is something none of those QBs had to try and uplift either.

Stafford drafted by a Seattle/Philly/Minny type franchise has a totally different narrative. Shìt even a Washington.

 

[FlyBoy718]

Give me a young Joe Flacco 7 days out of 7 over Statford

 

[BrehWyatt]

If Matt Stafford isn't a Hall of Famer, then it has to be accepted that Kyrie Irving isn't a Basketball Hall of Famer.

 

[CHICAGO]

If Matt Stafford isn't a Hall of Famer, then it has to be accepted that Kyrie Irving isn't a Basketball Hall of Famer.

8X ALL STAR
3X ALL NBA
4X NBA FINALIST
1X NBA CHAMPION

STAFFORD:
2X PRO BOWL
1X SB CHAMPION


​

 

[BrehWyatt]

8X ALL STAR
3X ALL NBA
4X NBA FINALIST
1X NBA CHAMPION

STAFFORD:
2X PRO BOWL
1X SB CHAMPION


​

The NBA All Star Game, much like the Pro Bowl, is a popularity contest. It's effectively the same people every season.

At the end of the day, they are unbelievably talented individuals whose talents never won anything worth a damn until they left the organization they started with or a better player came along to lift them up.

Personally, I think Stafford is going to the Hall. Whether or not he's a lock is a different matter, but he's most likely going. Kyrie in my view is going to the Hall.

But if the argument against Stafford are what they are, then here we are.

 

[CHICAGO]

The NBA All Star Game, much like the Pro Bowl, is a popularity contest.

NO THEYRE NOT

IS RUSSELL WILSON 4X MORE POPULAR
THAN STAFFORD OR WAS JUST
A BETTER PLAYER DURING THEIR PRIMES?

STAFFORD WAS NOT BETTER
THAN ROMO


​

 

[Trav]

Niccas living in Da Nile

 

[King Poetic]

He’s getting in , this isn’t MLB and even mlb is ridiculous nowadays

 

[Dem313wayz]

The Lions were awful during his tenure there. Yea he had Megatron but no running game, poor oline play bad coaching terrible front office.

His time with the Rams prove he would be a sure fire HOF player with a good franchise.

Think about this. During Staffords time with the Lions there was 2 draft classes were not a single player drafted by the Lions were on an NFL roster 3 years later. That is awful and no QB can thrive with multiple draft class failures.

shyt a prime Stafford with this current Lions team is a dynasty

 

[BrehWyatt]

NO THEYRE NOT

IS RUSSELL WILSON 4X MORE POPULAR
THAN STAFFORD OR WAS JUST
A BETTER PLAYER DURING THEIR PRIMES?

STAFFORD WAS NOT BETTER
THAN ROMO


​

Seattle was a winning franchise. Winning is popular.

So yes, he is more popular than Stafford.

 

[Still Benefited]

He's ahead of Ryan to me but only due to that SB win. That said, Stafford played for an awful team for most of his career.

Yeah,not like he had Megatron


So losing or not,his ability to stat pad was never effected and probably helped because his team was garbage.

 

[VegetasHairline]

Some of y'all really in here writing multiple paragraphs about Matthew Stafford!

 

[threattonature]

The funny thing to about looking at all the stats Stafford was able to compile is that he played on so many losing teams which in turn gives him a chance to pad those passing stats often against defenses that have fallen into bend don't break mode.