i'll shut that fat fukk down.
Shaq is barely a top 5 center?
- Thread starter Yung Yogurt
- Start date
Goatpoacher
Superstar
You mean Shaq or Art Barr?
'99 Shaq was so unfair to the league. I'll never forget seeing 2 or 3 players DRAPED on him while he still got in the air and dunked the ball, then proceeded to miss the free throw.
What NBA great was he capable of stopping? You saw what happened with Duncan. If T-Mac goes to SA Shaq might not have any rings. You tellin me his peak was higher than anyone in history but Jerry Stackhouse as a better career high for a season. This nikka almost blew a 3-1 lead with Kobe by his side in 99. Not denying his greatness but people get outta hand crowning Shaq the most dominant/highest peak/etc. He dominated a league who's center position and overall talent distribution were at their all time lowest. Shaq would get his against other great C's but much like Duncan and Dream before him they would get theres too and in some instances get even more.
Last edited:
the problem was on the defensive end. he was a stick in the mud compared to those other guys.
But still if a finesse guy avg. 4 ppg and physical guy put's up 30 its' not really a debate regardless of preference. Every one is entilted to like what they like but when discussing what's best facts/reality >>>>.
I think that exchanging ideas/opinions is fun. I don't really care about the players as much as I do the facts and concepts that people base their respective preferences on. I can accept pretty much anything with a solid/consistent basis.
Last edited:
but we're not talking about that dawg. that's just extreme. what about one guy that averages 30 and another averages 32?
Goatpoacher
Superstar
I'm measuring based purely on his performance. I suppose you can try to cut the other players out of the equation.
Shaq entered the league when it was filled with great centers. He put up good numbers against all of them, even though he didn't shut down anybody himself. He always had the gifts to be a great defensive force but never the drive. However, he was still big enough to clog the lane in '99 and let the rest of the lakers concentrate on defending the perimeter. Shaq's fat ass is the reason Rick Fox and Kobe Bryant are considered great defenders.
On the offensive end, he started his career relying on his freakish athleticism. In '99, however, he finally put together an all-round game. There was no way to stop him from putting up points. I remember, I rooted against the lakers every step of the way.
They instituted the Zone defense just for Shaq. Sure Wilt had about 30 rules put in place to slow him down, but in the modern NBA, only Shaq had rules changed to HINDER him.
The Bottom Line is this: Prime Shaq was even scarier than Prime Jordan in a lot of ways. I have never specifically watched full games of Kareem, Bill, Wilt. I did watch Hakeem play. Those players, even in their primes, were capable of being slowed. Dantheman has posted videos of a 35 year old Wilt blocking a young Kareem. It's my belief, based on what I've seen, that Prime Shaq is worth more to a team than those other Centers. Just saying he peaked in an era of weak centers is silly. ALzono Mourning is similar to Bill Russell in size. Look what Shaq did to him. Look that Shaq did to Mutumbo.
As a final point, why bring up Tim Duncan? TD is the greatest power forward of all time and (if we're honest) the best player in the league in the post Jordan era.
In conclusion:
When you go purely by preference you leave yourself open to extremes becuase you aren't bound by logic or fact.
As far as the scenario you put forth...you gotta look at other aspects of the game, overall impact, and how they respond to pressure. Either way it's fun to delve into and get the perspectives of others.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
But if you remember, NOBODY challenged him in the paint. He was so damn huge he just shut it down with his gravity. I remember a game where Vince had a clear path to the basket for a dunk and shaq was just sitting there eating In & Out. Instead of taking it strong, Vince faked a shoulder injury and was out for 2 weeks.
theres a big misconception that wilt & russell only played against a bunch of 6'6 white guys named Biff.
40 years from now, people will be acting as if centers like mourning & mutombo never existed either.
40 years from now, people will be acting as if centers like mourning & mutombo never existed either.
I'm measuring based purely on his performance. I suppose you can try to cut the other players out of the equation.
Shaq entered the league when it was filled with great centers. He put up good numbers against all of them, even though he didn't shut down anybody himself. He always had the gifts to be a great defensive force but never the drive. However, he was still big enough to clog the lane in '99 and let the rest of the lakers concentrate on defending the perimeter. Shaq's fat ass is the reason Rick Fox and Kobe Bryant are considered great defenders.
On the offensive end, he started his career relying on his freakish athleticism. In '99, however, he finally put together an all-round game. There was no way to stop him from putting up points. I remember, I rooted against the lakers every step of the way.
They instituted the Zone defense just for Shaq. Sure Wilt had about 30 rules put in place to slow him down, but in the modern NBA, only Shaq had rules changed to HINDER him.
The Bottom Line is this: Prime Shaq was even scarier than Prime Jordan in a lot of ways. I have never specifically watched full games of Kareem, Bill, Wilt. I did watch Hakeem play. Those players, even in their primes, were capable of being slowed. Dantheman has posted videos of a 35 year old Wilt blocking a young Kareem. It's my belief, based on what I've seen, that Prime Shaq is worth more to a team than those other Centers. Just saying he peaked in an era of weak centers is silly. ALzono Mourning is similar to Bill Russell in size. Look what Shaq did to him. Look that Shaq did to Mutumbo.
As a final point, why bring up Tim Duncan? TD is the greatest power forward of all time and (if we're honest) the best player in the league in the post Jordan era.
In conclusion:
When you say someone had the highest peak you should have something to support that. Other players scored more points, were better/more impactful defensively, grabbed more boards, and did so against better comp with less help. It's mighty convenient that him "putting together an all-around game" just happened to coincide with Mike's retirement and the centers position being
. All the years before that he was just this young pup but suddenly after everything gets cleared out for him he has this unfukkwitable peak. 
Look what a 2nd year Duncan did to him early in 99.Once again I ask what would he have done to stop those other greats? Him being unstoppable is one thing but there are two sides to the court. Kareem woulda dropped 30+ on him and so would Wilt and Russel too (if his team needed it). You only think of his peak so highly because while he was putting up 30-40 there wasn't another big man (outside of Duncan) good for 15.
Against Duncan, it was always Kobe that was the difference because there was a similar gap between him and whoever the Spurs trotted out in the backcourt.
the point would be to have a preference to not allow such extremes which is why I gave you that one.
and if that's the case, maybe those aren't the only aspects of the game that a person values. things like WILL and BBall IQ are aspects as well.
Goatpoacher
Superstar
When you say someone had the highest peak you should have something to support that. Other players scored more points, were better/more impactful defensively, grabbed more boards, and did so against better comp with less help. It's mighty convenient that him "putting together an all-around game" just happened to coincide with Mike's retirement and the centers position being
Once again I ask what would he have done to stop those other greats? Him being unstoppable is one thing but there are two sides to the court. Kareem woulda dropped 30+ on him and so would Wilt and Russel too (if his team needed it). You only think of his peak so highly because while he was putting up 30-40 there wasn't another big man (outside of Duncan) good for 15.
I did quantify how I am defining "Peak". Please read again. If you want to disagree with my definition, that's fine. If you want to ignore it and present your own definition, that's fine. But I'm not arguing his defensive abilities.
Let me try to summarize as follows: Shaq was the most efficient offensive weapon I've ever seen, and I believe his offensive efficiency and utility exceeds that of other great centers.
PS: Duncan's a PF.
PPS: Duncan never shut down SHaq either.
PPPS: Kobe sucked in 99
I think those can be categorized under "impact" along with leadership.
dabestkeptsecret
Superstar
shaq is def top 5.
1) hakeem
2) kareem
3) shaq
4) chamberlin
5) bill russel
- if u want to put tim duncan as a center, i'd prob take out bill over shaq
1) hakeem
2) kareem
3) shaq
4) chamberlin
5) bill russel
- if u want to put tim duncan as a center, i'd prob take out bill over shaq