Shaq is barely a top 5 center?

[Digga38]

By what measure?

nikkas got gassed watching this dude dominate Todd McCullah.

 

[R=G]

Thanks to Kobe.....which Olajuwon, or even Tim Duncan, never had a Kobe alongside of him like Shaq did


2001 series against the Spurs. Kobe averaged 33.3 ppg while Shaq averaged 27.0 ppg
2002 series against the Spurs, Kobe averaged 26.2 ppg while Shaq averaged 21.4 ppg
2003 series against the Spurs, Kobe averaged 32.3 ppg while Shaq averaged 25.3 ppg
2004 series against the Spurs, Kobe averaged 26.3 ppg while Shaq averaged 22.5 ppg





Shaq played with the 2nd best SG ever behind Jordan.........in his prime. That greatly benefited Shaq, who then went on to be carried to his 4th title by the 3RD GREATEST SG OF ALL-TIME IN HIS PRIME AS WELL, Dwyane Wade

He also won those titles without Jordan at his best. Not even a real champion...he was second best and lucked out.

Kobe was not second best anything back then. He tossed up a million shots and was getting open and developing into he became while Shaq drew all of those double teams and made his job incredibly easy. The Lakers won much more when it was Shaq playing without Kobe during those championship years than when Kobe played without Shaq. Kobe got shut down by the Pistons and it cost them their 4th straight title. He was selfish and fukking everything up.

Wade was great in the Finals but the Heat were failures until Shaq got there.

 

[R=G]

Shaq was 1-1 in one in the playoffs against Jordan. It was the likes of Indiana, Houston, Utah, SA, Detroit, Chicago (07) that stood in his way, not Mike. And many of those series he had the edge in talent and in many of those series he got swept. So there are no pleas to cop for the most dominant ever only winning 2 scoring titles or only winning 4 rings with the likes of Penny, Kobe, and Wade by his side.

People are enamored by his potential and indeed his potential is greater than any player we have seen. However his actual production is another story.

The Spurs got crushed 2 years straight and what do you expect when you have Shaq/Kobe going up against Duncan and...?

Like I said before he didn't dominate his era until everybody got and he had a life sized replica of Mike in his backcourt. So what basis is there to believe he would dominate any other era like you and others are suggesting?

Duncan had no help? Wtf..how the fukk he win in 99 then...Always a excuse when he comes up short. Never fails. SCUST. Lol

 

[Digga38]

NBA Finals numbers:
Hakeem averaged 32.8 ppg, 11.5 rebs, 5.5 assts, 2.0 blks, and 2.0 stls
Shaq averaged 28.0 ppg, 12.5 rebs, 6.3 assts, 2.5 blks, and 0.6 stls

he did work but he got sonned...put up 30 on you in a sweep....nah u got sonned

 

[FTBS]

What are u telling me I don't already know except a fake perception and belief that Hakeem at his best would hold up against Shaq when he became practically unstoppable.

The basis is this.....those other eras didn't have Shaq. He had to deal with the greatest ever....they did not. It's all timing and Shaq would of bulldozed Wilt, Russel, and Kareem. Come on..get real.

But he couldn't bulldoze a 6'6 shooting guard?

Shaq's era didn't have Wilt, Kareem, or Russell either. They fared better in a league with no Shaq but other great bigs, including each other, than Shaq did in a league full of Todd McCullahs and Vlades.

 

[FTBS]

Duncan had no help? Wtf..how the fukk he win in 99 then...Always a excuse when he comes up short. Never fails. SCUST. Lol

Ironic coming from a guy ing for Shaq. He had help obviously, I didn't say he didn't. He didn't have Kobe or anywhere close to it. Shiit he didn't have D. Wade. Shiiit he didn't have Penny.

 

[Digga38]

Duncan had no help? Wtf..how the fukk he win in 99 then...Always a excuse when he comes up short. Never fails. SCUST. Lol

TBh i can never think of a time when Duncan came up short....
Gave them a game of the ages last year game 6 but Jewnobli and Pop screwed it up

 

[Newzz]

He also won those titles without Jordan at his best. Not even a real champion...he was second best and lucked out.

Kobe was not second best anything back then. He tossed up a million shots and was getting open and developing into he became while Shaq drew all of those double teams and made his job incredibly easy. The Lakers won much more when it was Shaq playing without Kobe during those championship years than when Kobe played without Shaq. Kobe got shut down by the Pistons and it cost them their 4th straight title. He was selfish and fukking everything up.

Wade was great in the Finals but the Heat were failures until Shaq got there.

so much wrong in this post

 

[cornercommission2k12]

I'm comparing the players based on what they did in their respective eras. Of course Wilt wouldn't be avg. 50 in the 90's and Russell wouldn't be winning championships every year that wasn't my point. You suggested that Shaq was better and would be more dominant than them in their time. I ask what Shaq did in his time that makes you think that way?

He dominated in his era. That is what he did. As a youngster he was clearly a force. Only Hakeem was clearly better vs Ewing Robinson smits zo daughtery etc shaq was dominant. So in my estimation shaq was dominant in a more competitive era where as wilt and Russell dominance may have just been the benefit of playing in a less competitive era.

But due to the athleticism and size if you drop shaq in wilt and Russell era he clearly dominates thAt erA, but because of the way players developed going into the 90s not so sure based on wilt and Russell size and weight that they would come into shaq era and dominate.

Don't know why some in this thread are acting like shaq was some scrub. His inability to win it all boiled down to teams making shaq purely a scorer and taking away all the 3pt shooters he was surrounded with in Orlando. The bulls and the rockets basically said shaq you can score 30-40 who cares as long as d Scott nick Anderson penny etc are not hitting open shots they have based on us sending a double, we good because Orlando success was based purely on shaq getting those double teams. Shaq getting with Kobe and Phil Jackson changed that for him. But even as he couldn't win it all he still was clearly a top 2-3 center in the league.

Lets also not act like Hakeem didn't have many playoff failures as well. He only ahead IMO cause clearly he was more skilled. But Hakeem only got 2 rings for a reason

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Kareem
Bill Russell
Olajuwon
Wilt
Sabonis/Anthony Davis/Divac

are all much better than Shaq fat ass, Kobe coulda won at least 3 rings without him. Can't say the same for Mr oneill tho

 

[Depreciating Asset]

 

[martin payne]

I'm all for a little trollin every now and then but breh actually listed a three headed monster of sabonis, davis, and vlade

 

[Goatpoacher]

Well there is more to the game than offense and how is does his efficiency and utility exceed other centers when other guys scored as many or more points and shot comparable or superior percentages and he was a liablity due to his FT issues?

Never said Duncan shut him down but he gave him that work and led his underdog Spurs to a fukking 4 game sweep over his Lakers. That's some Wilt shyt and I don't mean that in a good way.

You takin Mario Elie or Jaron Jackson over Kobe at that point?

Well, Drob was still a force at that time. I'm taking that Spurs front court over the lakers.

And since your' one of the few posters I respect, I will provide you with an explanation as to our fundamental disagreement here. I have defined what I mean by "peak" and explained why I believe Shaq is the greatest center by that measure. Consequently, it's your task, if you disagree with me, to explain why my definition of "peak" is incomplete, lacking , or otherwise incorrect. There's no point in arguing within the bounds of your definition, you need to explain why your definition is superior.

I'm willing to be convinced. Fact is, I hated the lakers then, hate them now, and thought shaq was an unfair piece of shyt. So please convince me I am wrong.

 

[FTBS]

He dominated in his era. That is what he did. As a youngster he was clearly a force. Only Hakeem was clearly better vs Ewing Robinson smits zo daughtery etc shaq was dominant. So in my estimation shaq was dominant in a more competitive era where as wilt and Russell dominance may have just been the benefit of playing in a less competitive era.

But due to the athleticism and size if you drop shaq in wilt and Russell era he clearly dominates thAt erA, but because of the way players developed going into the 90s not so sure based on wilt and Russell size and weight that they would come into shaq era and dominate.

Don't know why some in this thread are acting like shaq was some scrub. His inability to win it all boiled down to teams making shaq purely a scorer and taking away all the 3pt shooters he was surrounded with in Orlando. The bulls and the rockets basically said shaq you can score 30-40 who cares as long as d Scott nick Anderson penny etc are not hitting open shots they have based on us sending a double, we good because Orlando success was based purely on shaq getting those double teams. Shaq getting with Kobe and Phil Jackson changed that for him. But even as he couldn't win it all he still was clearly a top 2-3 center in the league.

Lets also not act like Hakeem didn't have many playoff failures as well. He only ahead IMO cause clearly he was more skilled. But Hakeem only got 2 rings for a reason

Wilt was 7'2 275 how many nikkas bigger than that in Shaq's era? You give him access to modern training. Russell was going to battle with that nikka and winning the war so let's not act like he's some scrub either. Don't tell me about teammates when Shaq had Penny, Kobe, and Wade.

How the fukk are you dominant when you win 1 scoring title and 0 titles and get swept out of the playoffs every year with all kinds of talent around you? Shaq didn't dominate the league until all those guys fell off and Mike retired. Seriously Brad Miller was considered the 2nd best center when Shaq was dominating. When he had comp he didn't dominate shyt.

 

[Vado]

Look at this blatant disrespect for the greatest champion in sports history. There is no real way to say how anyone who played in the a different era would fare in today's game, so stop with this nonsense and show some respect for one of the greatest ever.

How many white players are in the league now?

How many white players were in the league in the past?

What is the talent and athletic level of white players?