So Puff Diddy isnt a record producer either....we knew?

[trillanova]

All he did was steal ms Jones music and entire steeli tho.

Puff's rnb direction he brought to mca.
was theft from miss jones and her producer.

Art Barr

Hot97 Miss Jones?

Yeah.

Mary j Blige is a copycat of the original ms Jones.


Ms Jones was better than mjv.

jones just did not have amy power. Along with puff stealing her original music and flipping and bouncing it.



Before Mary, but hit woth 'delays'

Art Barr

Damn I didn't even know she sang. I used to go over to her house in the 90s sometimes. She was my godmother's good friend. I only knew her from Hot97 fame


I saw a clip the other day of Kim Porter singing Karaoke and she had a nice voice too. I was wondering if she wanted to be an artist at Uptown and then just ended up being a face

 

[Art Barr]

Hot97 Miss Jones?


Damn I didn't even know she sang. I used to go over to her house in the 90s sometimes. She was my godmother's good friend. I only knew her from Hot97 fame


I saw a clip the other day of Kim Porter singing Karaoke and she had a nice voice too. I was wondering if she wanted to be an artist at Uptown and then just ended up being a face

really..
man, small world.

you did not know she was like the it girl of the era before puff sharked her shyt for mary j.

as far as kim porter. it is speculation...
yet, every black girl with talent.
wanted to be on uptown and uptown kick it.



you could be on to something with your post about kim porter.

art barr

 

[Big Boss]

Yeah.

Mary j Blige is a copycat of the original ms Jones.


Ms Jones was better than mjv.

jones just did not have amy power. Along with puff stealing her original music and flipping and bouncing it.



Before Mary, but hit with 'delays'.

Sugar hill is why AZ was able to live making an rnb single as his de UT. As sugarhull is cultural backpay for getting shafted. It is why no one disses AZ for sugar hill.

Whereas Nas is dissed for the Lauren hill second album rnb record. Circumstances culturally separate the issues of Nas and az's cultural acceptance across the hiphop.

So if anyone was wondering why the smoke for nas and not for AZ. This is why.




Art Barr

 

[bobbiewishbone]

 

[Art Barr]

Not its not because plenty of songs have taken parts of the sampled record including the hook and even parts of the verses to create a song. If this was exclusive to Puff, you'd have a point. Since its not exclusive to Puff then your entire argument falls flat.

When Puff started jacking disco loops. That was taboo to do in hiphop culture or express it in rap music.
As it was a hold over from the ol school to new school way of thought.
Plus the exclusion of disco within hiphop. After segregating culturally from the disco era in which hiphop culture originated.

this over use of disco factually would cause erosion to the business of rap's profitability.

as seen in th disco duck era and phase. Hence duck being a offensive term or slur. Towards disco with in hiphop culture.
Plus this affinity to disco.
hampered rap's viability and long term drawing ability
to be taken seriously or credible as a viable culture and also music gemre.
having its own identity and voice via the use or employing a sample or samples.




Art Barr

 

[trillanova]

When Puff started jacking disco loops. That was taboo to do in hiphop culture or express it in rap music.
As it was a hold over from the ol school to new school way of thought.
Plus the exclusion of disco within hiphop. After segregating culturally from the disco era in which hiphop culture originated.

this over use of disco factually would cause erosion to the business of rap's profitability.

as seen in th disco duck era and phase. Hence duck being a offensive term or slur. Towards disco with in hiphop culture.
Plus this affinity to disco.
hampered rap's viability and long term drawing ability
to be taken seriously or credible as a viable culture and also music gemre.
having its own identity and voice via the use or employing a sample or samples.




Art Barr

So you don't feel like the sampling of artists like James Brown was a continuation of one genre into another to give it it's footing? We didn't have alot of the same stuff to make complete compositions, so the sampling was a way to still get a sound and feeling that we didn't have access to.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

Hot97 Miss Jones?


Damn I didn't even know she sang. I used to go over to her house in the 90s sometimes. She was my godmother's good friend. I only knew her from Hot97 fame


I saw a clip the other day of Kim Porter singing Karaoke and she had a nice voice too. I was wondering if she wanted to be an artist at Uptown and then just ended up being a face

she sang on AZ's "sugar hill"!!! haha. yes she can sing. Plus her debut album is decent.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Hot97 Miss Jones?


Damn I didn't even know she sang. I used to go over to her house in the 90s sometimes. She was my godmother's good friend. I only knew her from Hot97 fame


I saw a clip the other day of Kim Porter singing Karaoke and she had a nice voice too. I was wondering if she wanted to be an artist at Uptown and then just ended up being a face

I used to go over to her house too in the 90's. That's a story for another time though.



She was singing, but her whole sh*t came after Mary though. That's why everyone was saying her and other chicks were Mary clones. A lot of solo R&B chicks were trying to roll with Mary's whole style and aesthetic. She had a couple of videos, but the backlash killed her album, so Motown wasn't willing to even front her a budget to record it. So it never got made. Then she said Doug E. Fresh was stealing her money. So they had beef for a minute. She had a hard time getting her career off back then. Then the radio thing happened for her.

 

[3rdWorld]

Koonye is another questionable one.

 

[s@n]

I mean, as someone who can and does actually PRODUCE music, sometimes I find it offensive.

It’s not like say Quincy Jones who at one time played a musical instrument and arranged bands, etc.

In this case, it just means I was in the room and paid a lot of money for everyone else to be here.

He’s a goddamn glorified events manager basically. A host that invites artists to work with other artists.

You’re describing a producer

 

[thephatmack]

When Puff started jacking disco loops. That was taboo to do in hiphop culture or express it in rap music.
As it was a hold over from the ol school to new school way of thought.
Plus the exclusion of disco within hiphop. After segregating culturally from the disco era in which hiphop culture originated.

this over use of disco factually would cause erosion to the business of rap's profitability.

as seen in th disco duck era and phase. Hence duck being a offensive term or slur. Towards disco with in hiphop culture.
Plus this affinity to disco.
hampered rap's viability and long term drawing ability
to be taken seriously or credible as a viable culture and also music gemre.
having its own identity and voice via the use or employing a sample or samples.




Art Barr

Just by saying "Puff waa jacking" it's missing the premise of the thread.
Bad Boys biggest hits are all jacked disco loops or blatant copies but the Hitmen took them and did the rest, they may have even brought the ideas to the table and worked on them while Puff was focused on his freak offs.

Puff just added his name to the record print as Exec or Co Producer later.
Which is what this thread is all about..

 

[thephatmack]

You’re describing a producer

I would like to think that a hiphop record producer would:

1, Come with ideas that contribute towards the tracks concept / arrangement / vocal patterns / rhyming styles.
2, At minimum be able to arrange a 4/5 min music track by taking components from musicians and stitching them together in a cohesive way using production tools.
3, Ideally read music.
4, Play some of the instruments well enough to lead / compose.
5, I would.expect them to have a vast record collection and be able to flip samples too.

Dependent on all of the above, if you were fair you would weigh up royalties.

Then there are 6, song writers....

Which of 1-6 does Puffy do to deserve co producer / producer even exec producer credits?

We know JD does At LEAST 1,2 and 5 and 6. See the difference..

 

[s@n]

I would like to think that a hiphop record producer would:

1, Come with ideas that contribute towards the tracks concept / arrangement / vocal patterns / rhyming styles.
2, At minimum be able to arrange a 4/5 min music track by taking components from musicians and stitching them together in a cohesive way using production tools.
3, Ideally read music.
4, Play some of the instruments well enough to lead / compose.
5, I would.expect them to have a vast record collection and be able to flip samples too.

Dependent on all of the above, if you were fair you would weigh up royalties.

Then there are 6, song writers....

Which of 1-6 does Puffy do to deserve co producer / producer even exec producer credits?

We know JD does At LEAST 1,2 and 5 and 6. See the difference..

Call it what you want, but at minimum he’s a line producer in that he hires the necessary people for the job. You can’t have a good show/production without one.

Timbaland can’t read music, is he a musician?

Phil Collins can’t read music and designed his own notation, is he a musician?


I see your larger point, just offering some examples

 

[get these nets]

Yeah.

Mary j Blige is a copycat of the original ms Jones.


Ms Jones was better than mjv.

jones just did not have amy power. Along with puff stealing her original music and flipping and bouncing it.



Before Mary, but hit with 'delays'.




Art Barr

Mary J. was in the works before Ms Jones.
Uptown Records brought that style of blending R&B and hip hop to the forefront. Jodeci really blew it up. But before they came out, you can go back and see them in Father MC videos singing background. You will also see Mary J. Blige in the background of old Father MC videos.

To take it back to the old school, the R&B blends with Jeep beats....was a Ron G style....streets responded to it...so that's who producers were copying

 

[thephatmack]

Call it what you want, but at minimum he’s a line producer in that he hires the necessary people for the job. You can’t have a good show/production without one.

Timbaland can’t read music, is he a musician?

Phil Collins can’t read music and designed his own notation, is he a musician?


I see your larger point, just offering some examples

Good man but look...

1, Come with ideas that contribute towards the tracks concept / arrangement / vocal patterns / rhyming styles.
2, At minimum be able to arrange a 4/5 min music track by taking components from musicians and stitching them together in a cohesive way using production tools.
3, Ideally read music.
4, Play some of the instruments well enough to lead / compose.
5, I would.expect them to have a vast record collection and be able to flip samples too.


When you break down the Royalties on a track its split by producers who do 1 to 5,(50%) writers (25%) then vocalists / musicians get a small cut of the rest.

Timbo does 1 and 2 very very well! So does Dr Dre. They are the best.

Pharell and JD do do even more...Quik too.

Puff is getting his name on records and doing none of it. That's where the extortion suits are coming from.. thats the point of the thread.

The other stuff being discussed, I.e the BadBoy copy and paste hits.. well thats something else..And worth it's own platinum thread!