Starting Strength or Heterotrophy for a Novice?

[Xavier]

Help a skinny breh turn into Goku

I’ve already set up a lean bulking diet but I’m not sure which direction to go, in terms of getting on a strength or heterotrophy program.

I don’t know how long it will take but my goals are to gain at least 20 lbs of muscle (trying to reach 185 lbs) whilst remaining lean, mainly for aesthetics rather than functional strength.

The problem is I don’t want to do a 5x5 program then up looking like a T-Rex after 6 months. But at the same time, I don’t want to spend weeks being stuck at lifting the same weight because I’m too weak.



For me to achieve my goals which program do you think would benefit me the most?
Also, which program did you start off with and what was your split looking like when you first started lifting?



@Meh @krackdagawd @GinaThatAintNoDamnPuppy! @Waterproof @semtex @The ADD @Bart simpson

 

[The ADD]

Help a skinny breh turn into Goku

I’ve already set up a lean bulking diet but I’m not sure which direction to go, in terms of getting on a strength or heterotrophy program.

I don’t know how long it will take but my goals are to gain at least 20 lbs of muscle (trying to reach 185 lbs) whilst remaining lean, mainly for aesthetics rather than functional strength.

The problem is I don’t want to do a 5x5 program then up looking like a T-Rex after 6 months. But at the same time, I don’t want to spend weeks being stuck at lifting the same weight because I’m too weak.



For me to achieve my goals which program do you think would benefit me the most?
Also, which program did you start off with and what was your split looking like when you first started lifting?



@Meh @krackdagawd @GinaThatAintNoDamnPuppy! @Waterproof @semtex @The ADD @Bart simpson

I’m always an advocate of some form of the PHAT program. Ultimately you can train for both in the sense that you aren’t trying to hit specific powerlifting goals and the thebsetup up allows for strength gains which will ultimately assist with hypertrophy.

 

[semtex]

When I first started I was all over the place, no routine, no logging. Don’t do that

I’d recommend 5x5 because it’s simple and scalable. Beginners are easily distracted and discouraged. This is a 3 day a week (I think) program so that reduces the chances of feeling overwhelmed. Also you only do a few exercises and don’t get caught up in accessory exercises that are intended for when you’ve lifted long enough to identify weaknesses.

 

[The ADD]

When I first started I was all over the place, no routine, no logging. Don’t do that

I’d recommend 5x5 because it’s simple and scalable. Beginners are easily distracted and discouraged. This is a 3 day a week (I think) program so that reduces the chances of feeling overwhelmed. Also you only do a few exercises and don’t get caught up in accessory exercises that are intended for when you’ve lifted long enough to identify weaknesses.

Good point, I said PHAT thinking @Xavier had a lifting foundation.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

For me to achieve my goals which program do you think would benefit me the most?
Also, which program did you start off with and what was your split looking like when you first started lifting?

I second @The ADD.... a modified PHAT program, or really just a simple upper/lower split will get it done.

I did a lot of bullshyt when I first started so I spun my gears.... the program I made gains over the last few years was this:

Upper day 3x/week- push/pull compound superset, biceps/triceps superset, abs/shoulders superset
Lower day 2x/week- squats, deadlifts, leg curls

Upper day I change the exercises around... so one day for the push compound I'll do heavy flat bench, then another day weighted dips, then incline bench. Etc. Only stuff I don't change is abs/shoulders. Lower day I just vary reps. So one day I'll go heavy and work in the 3-5 rep range, then the second day I go lighter in the 8-10 rep range. Truthfully the heavy stuff is just for ego and fun... when I cut I throw that shyt out the window. So you can prob just run that program all in the 8-10 rep range.

You can swap leg press for squats too, and leg curls for deadlifts. I actually have dropped back to only deadlifting once a week as I think the shyt is making my butt too big

Def gotta make some kind of timeline too. If you are a skinny breh don't bother cutting for a year. Truthfully I would probably not cut for like 18 months so that's straight gains from now until April 2020. But you also have to keep weight gain under control. Not sure what your weight is but you might legit be able to put on a quality 30-35lb. But keep in mind that's less than half a lb a week. So make sure that every lb you gain on the scale comes with a few lbs on your big lifts in the gym. You do all that and you will be well on your way

 

[Xavier]

I’m always an advocate of some form of the PHAT program. Ultimately you can train for both in the sense that you aren’t trying to hit specific powerlifting goals and the thebsetup up allows for strength gains which will ultimately assist with hypertrophy.

PHAT has a lot of volume involved... Should I cut most of the accessory movements.
Also what are your thoughts on P/P/L. Is a modified version of PHAT better?

 

[Xavier]

Not sure what your weight is but you might legit be able to put on a quality 30-35lb. But keep in mind that's less than half a lb a week. So make sure that every lb you gain on the scale comes with a few lbs on your big lifts in the gym. You do all that and you will be well on your way

My goal is to reach 185 lbs whilst maintaining around 10% BF. How should I structure my progressive overload, since it would be slower on a modified PHAT program?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

My goal is to reach 185 lbs whilst maintaining around 10% BF. How should I structure my progressive overload, since it would be slower on a modified PHAT program?

I mean to start I would probably aim to add 5lb on your compound lifts every 2 weeks and half that on your accessories. I follow a double progression scheme, so for something like bench I'll start with 3x8, then do 3x9, then 3x10, then add 5lb and go back to 3x8 etc. When you can't make gains at that speed, cut it in half. Hit 3x8 twice, then 3x9 twice etc.

185 @ 10% is Not sure what your height/weight is but just for reference I'm 5' 9" and 181 or so right now, prob low teens body fat (blurry abs but small waist, vascular arms & legs) and my 3x5 bench/squat/deadlift is 215/355/355. Most of the elite naturals my height are prob 160-170lbs on stage at ~5% BF so you're talking about elite natural bodybuilder off season stats. I would focus less on numbers and more on performance and looks.... you won't know what your satisfactory stats will look like until you really put on a good 20 or so lb of muscle. Focus on mastering the lifts, adding weight to the bar and not getting too fat.... everything will fall into place

 

[Xavier]

I’m always an advocate of some form of the PHAT program.

I’ve created a modified PHAT program. Please critic brehs:taggingforfukkery:

Day One: Upper Body Power Day

• Bent Over Barbell Rows 3x5
  
• Pull Ups 3x Failure
• Flat Dumbbell Presses 3x5
  
• Dips 3x6
  
• Seated Dumbbell Overhead Shoulder Presses 3x10
• Preacher Curls 3x8
• Skull Crushers 3x10

Day Two: Lower Body Power Day

• Squats 3x5
  
• Hack Squats 10,10
• Stiff Legged Deadlifts 3x8
• Glute Hamstring Raises / Weighted Hip Thrusts 3x15
• Lying Leg Curls 10,10
  
• Standing Calf Raises 3x10
  
• Seated Calf Raises 3x10

Day Three: Rest

Day Four: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day

• Rack Pulls 6x3 with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
• T-Bar Rows 3x10
• Lat Pull Downs 3x10
  
• Close Grip Pulldowns 15,15
  
• Wide Grip Seated Cable Rows 3x8
  
• Dumbbell Shrugs 15,15
• Lying Face Down Neck Curls 4x10
• Standing Overhead Dumbbell Presses 3x10
  
• Lateral Raises 3x10
• Face Pulls 3x8

Day Five: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day

• Squats 6x3 with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
• Hack Squats 3x10
• Leg Presses 15,15
• Romanian Deadlifts 3x8
• Lying Leg Curls 15,15
• Standing Calf raises 3x15
  
• Seated Calf Raises 3x15

Day Six: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day

• Incline Bench Presses 6x3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
• Incline Dumbbell Presses 3x10
  
• Incline Hammer Strength Chest Press
  3x10
• Seated Incline Dumbbell Curls 3x10
  
• Concentration Curls 3x10
• Close Grip Flat Bench Presses 3x8
  
• Skull Crusher 3x10
• Dips 3x6

Day Seven: Rest

I mean to start I would probably aim to add 5lb on your compound lifts every 2 weeks and half that on your accessories. I follow a double progression scheme, so for something like bench I'll start with 3x8, then do 3x9, then 3x10, then add 5lb and go back to 3x8 etc. When you can't make gains at that speed, cut it in half. Hit 3x8 twice, then 3x9 twice etc.

185 @ 10% is Not sure what your height/weight is. I would focus less on numbers and more on performance and looks.... you won't know what your satisfactory stats will look like until you really put on a good 20 or so lb of muscle. Focus on mastering the lifts, adding weight to the bar and not getting too fat.... everything will fall into place

I definitely will be trying @ the bolded.

I’m 5’11, at around 165 lbs currently. I have an etcomorph body type so staying lean might not be too difficult.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Dont buy into somatotypes... I went through all 3 in the span of 2 years

Regarding the modified PHAT.... it's a lot of volume and a lot of time. If you have 2 hours a day 5 days a week it will work, but I think you can get ~90% of the gains with about half that volume. For example you don't need 3 incline presses in one day; you will make decent gains just doing 1 incline press movement. I'd look at chopping out redundancy wherever you can.

 

[BillBanneker]

When I first started I was all over the place, no routine, no logging. Don’t do that

I’d recommend 5x5 because it’s simple and scalable. Beginners are easily distracted and discouraged. This is a 3 day a week (I think) program so that reduces the chances of feeling overwhelmed. Also you only do a few exercises and don’t get caught up in accessory exercises that are intended for when you’ve lifted long enough to identify weaknesses.

Yeah, I would go with 5x5 or some form of full body training.

PHAT is cool, but is way too much volume (and everything that comes with that) for a novice lifter who's just getting their feet wet IMO.

 

[NatiboyB]

I will always suggest establishing a strength base and learning the compound lifts before anything else....after that however if you want to do a BOdybuilding split or whatever half at it...But id recommend starting out with a full body routine revolving around back squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, pullups and dips...