Steve Bannon Speaks At "Black Americans For A Better Future Summit"

Pressure

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For clarity, my dad is a united methodist pastor. I spent most of my childhood and early adulthood in the church. At one point I was on the board for the Southeastern Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church and maintained had a vote during General Conference.

During that time their were votes on the stance on abortion, homosexuality, homosexuality clergy, among other things. There is a clear split among evangelicals with regard to what you consider single issue votes within their own church, but somehow you're suggesting that doesn't carry over into their politics.

Most black evangelicals in the south still vote Democrat because of racism despite their religious views because that's a bigger threat.

But I caught on to your flaw pretty early and I'm glad you said it. You consider evangelicals to only be white. Further you seem to be using fundamentalists and evangelicals interchangeably. This is another mistake.

Have you ever spent time in church? Souther church? Or southern evangelical church?

Terrible posting on your part. Do better. :stop:
 

King Kreole

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For clarity, my dad is a united methodist pastor. I spent most of my childhood and early adulthood in the church. At one point I was on the board for the Southeastern Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church and maintained had a vote during General Conference.

During that time their were votes on the stance on abortion, homosexuality, homosexuality clergy, among other things. There is a clear split among evangelicals with regard to what you consider single issue votes within their own church, but somehow you're suggesting that doesn't carry over into their politics.

Most black evangelicals in the south still vote Democrat because of racism despite their religious views because that's a bigger threat.

But I caught on to your flaw pretty early and I'm glad you said it. You consider evangelicals to only be white. Further you seem to be using fundamentalists and evangelicals interchangeably. This is another mistake.

Have you ever spent time in church? Souther church? Or southern evangelical church?

Terrible posting on your part. Do better. :stop:
This is a really idiotic post because at your own behest we are discussing intra-Republican voting blocs, of which the Evangelical group is predominantly white. I caught your flaw immediately.

You started by saying:
There's no value in talking about pre Trump. They chose this path and have fully embraced it.

And when I asked you to define "they", you said:
A strongmajority of conservatives and evangelicals still support Trumpism

And now you're backtracking and attempting to dig your way out by entering non-Republican Evangelicals into the equation. Which is it, James? Do you believe a strong majority of evangelicals, black included, still support Trumpism, as you originally claimed? Or are we reasonably excluding black evangelicals from this discussion of Republican voter behaviour?

 

Pressure

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This is a really idiotic post because at your own behest we are discussing intra-Republican voting blocs, of which the Evangelical group is predominantly white. I caught your flaw immediately.

You started by saying:


And when I asked you to define "they", you said:


And now you're backtracking and attempting to dig your way out by entering non-Republican Evangelicals into the equation. Which is it, James? Do you believe a strong majority of evangelicals, black included, still support Trumpism, as you originally claimed? Or are we reasonably excluding black evangelicals from this discussion of Republican voter behaviour?
The evangelicals who don't support Trump don't support him why?
(Hint: they aren't all conservative. They aren't all single issue voters as you wrongly suggested.) :mjlol:


You seem to struggle here.

1.)most evangelicals support Trump.
2.)almost all black evangelicals do not support Trump.
3.)Most evangelicals vote republican.
4.)the extreme majority of black evangelicals vote Democrat.


You: this can't be possible.
Me: there are more white evangelicals skewing the data.
You::ohhh:

Me::camdup:



Recap:
So as I said originally, most conservatives and evangelicals still support Trump.

Black Evangelicals still overwhelmingly do not.

Why? Because evangelicals are not single issue voters as you suggested.


Why is this important?

You're suggesting black people should attempt to sway conservatives to support black interest. But we already see among evangelicals (black and white) who have more in common than not see the futility in this.

You're not suggesting anything groundbreaking and you seem to ignore how these divisions came about in the first place.

Race, racism, and sexism, etc. :mjlol:
 

Pressure

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Democrats need black voters to win in a large portion of this country. This gives black voters leverage. It also gives black a foot in the door to create change from the inside out whether that's staff positions or as candidates.

Republicans on the other hand only need black people not to vote democrat to win and further their agenda. This is why you see these types of speeches from Bannon and others. To sow discord, disinterest, etc. They don't actually want blacks involved and pushing a black agenda.
 

King Kreole

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1.)most evangelicals support Trump.
2.)almost all black evangelicals do not support Trump.
3.)Most evangelicals vote republican.
4.)the extreme majority of black evangelicals vote Democrat.


You: this is painfully obvious and explains why I focused on the voting behaviour of white Evangelicals in our discussion of Republican voting behaviour, but doesn't explain why you would try to bring in the behaviour of black Evangelicals who don't even vote Republican....

Me: I was trying to do an own and, like Icarus, flew too close to the Sun (you) and failed, I'm sorry.

You: That's ok, just relax and do better next time :therethere:

Me:Thank you for being so gracious.

FTFY.

Recap:
So as I said originally, most conservatives and evangelicals still support Trump.

Black Evangelicals still overwhelmingly do not.

Why? Because evangelicals are not single issue voters as you suggested.

Black Evangelicals are not relevant in a discussion of the voting habits of Trump supporting Republicans. The Evangelicals that are relevant in this discussion are White Evangelicals, who are overwhelmingly one issue voters. You yourself make this distinction between the relevant Evangelical racial group when you say "A strongmajority of conservatives and evangelicals still support Trumpism". Those evangelicals you're referencing are not black evangelicals, they are one-issue White Republican Evangelicals. I hope this clears things up for you.

Why is this important?

You're suggesting black people should attempt to sway conservatives to support black interest. But we already see among evangelicals (black and white) who have more in common than not see the futility in this.

You're not suggesting anything groundbreaking and you seem to ignore how these divisions came about in the first place.

Race, racism, and sexism, etc. :mjlol:
Racism and Sexism are deeply interwoven into American life, so to ignore those factors and their history would be foolish. I'm not advocating doing that, I'm advocating trying to forge a new political reality by leveraging the power of the black vote. If you think those factors are insurmountable and we're stuck with our current political reality, then you should have just said that from the beginning instead of taking us all down this strange odyssey. It's a somewhat respectable opinion.
 

King Kreole

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Democrats need black voters to win in a large portion of this country. This gives black voters leverage. It also gives black a foot in the door to create change from the inside out whether that's staff positions or as candidates.
Precisely, I just wish we would use (or at least threaten to use) that leverage. It's not actually leverage unless the Party thinks there is a threat of you using it. If they don't, they'll continue to make superficial gestures while sending us to the back of the line when it comes time for action.
 

Pressure

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@King Kreole

Republicans are showing you who they are and you keep refusing to believe them. Sad. :TrumpSigh:

This time last year, Alabama’s chief elections official landed in the national spotlight for delivering a screed against nonvoters that many people interpreted as an attack on African Americans in the state, who have long faced barriers to voting. “If you’re too sorry or lazy to get up off of your rear and to go register to vote, or to register electronically, and then to go vote, then you don’t deserve that privilege,” Republican John Merrill said in an interview with documentary filmmaker Brian Jenkins. Jenkins had asked why he opposed automatically registering Alabamians when they reach voting age, and his response sizzled with anger toward people who “think they deserve the right because they’ve turned 18.” So he made a pledge: “As long as I’m secretary of state of Alabama, you’re going to have to show some initiative to become a registered voter in this state.”

In the year since he made those comments, Merrill has in many ways made good on his promise. When Alabamians go to the polls on Tuesday to elect Republican Roy Moore or Democrat Doug Jones as their new senator, an untold number will not participate due to the decisions made by Merrill’s office—which is in charge of ensuring a fair voting process—and by the Republicans who run the state. These laws and policies overwhelmingly make it harder for minorities to vote.



The game plan hasn't changed in over 100 hears:

America's Black Holocaust Museum | Voting Rights for Blacks and Poor Whites in the Jim Crow South

They just keep telling you they don't want your black vote or you voting at all.

North Carolina GOP Brags Racist Voter Suppression Is Working—and They’re Right




JUST TAKE BANNON'S OWN WORDS:

It's almost as though "least politically correct" is a politically correct way of saying someone is a racist. But don't let my interpretation guide you. Why don't you let this horrifying anecdote tell you everything you need to know about Steve Bannon:

Ms. Jones, the film colleague, said that in their years working together, Mr. Bannon occasionally talked about the genetic superiority of some people and once mused about the desirability of limiting the vote to property owners.

“I said, ‘That would exclude a lot of African-Americans,’” Ms. Jones recalled. “He said, ‘Maybe that’s not such a bad thing.’ I said, ‘But what about Wendy?’” referring to Mr. Bannon’s executive assistant. “He said, ‘She’s different. She’s family.’”

But but but James, why do you keep saying it's irrelevant to focus on pre Trump...:SnoopSideye:


Negged and ignored. :camdup:
 

Eddy Gordo

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That anti-black racism is deeply interwoven into all of American life, but especially in the South, is undeniable. But to flatten conservative ideology into a monolith is mistaken, imo. There are gradations of overt racism. Someone like Richard Shelby is different than someone like Roy Moore. The people who support them are different as well. "Moderate" is a relative term.


shytting on black folk has been the GOP playbook for a long time, yes. What I'm saying is that we are living in a tumultuous time where a lot of social and economic reorganization is taking place, and with change comes opportunities. You may be right that the gap is too big to traverse for Southern Republican voters, but I'm not so sure. I think if you were to ask them to rank the threats to their livelihood between black people, Muslims, illegal immigrants and the establishment, black people would be last in that list. That is a new shift.


This is very true. The question for me is whether or not black people are in a position to reject potential advancement in the form of nationalist policies so that we can stop white racists from shifting their sights to another group. I personally think it's immoral to abdicate one's duty to their fellow humans by allowing another group to become the target of ire, but I don't know if I can make that case when it comes to thinking on behalf of the entirety of the black community. Black people have been abused in a more vicious and damaging manner than any of these groups, been abused for longer than any of these groups, and it's pretty bullshyt that we're being put on the front lines of this battle, asked to forgo whatever leverage within the Democratic Party to fight on behalf of these other groups. It's some WW2 black soldiers as cannon fodder shyt.


My posts haven't been about what is most likely to actually happen, this conversation has been about hypothetical ways in which we could use our political power in more effective manners. If I was a betting man, I would bet nothing will change, black people will get lapped by the Hispanic voting block, and be consigned to relative political irrelevancy in the future.
Then come up with a actual actionable plan that can prevent black folks political irrelevancy. Instead of your hypothetical drivel.

You and Dead7 have the worst plans.
 

DirtyD

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Evangelicals are by and large one issue voters on the issue of abortion, so they represent the ideological fringe of the Republican Party (and even then, their support for him is dropping). But there are a lot of conservatives/Republicans that got a taste of Trump and swallowed it down like a bitter pill. A lot of conservatives "support" him begrudgingly out of tribalism. There are also a lot who don't support him at all anymore. Every week we see his approval rating drop. The "Resistance" (:mjlol:) has a lot of Republicans in its ranks.

The idea that Trump is enjoying universal, uncontested popularity throughout the Republican party isn't grounded in reality. If those Evangelicals represented the totality of Republican voters and have the power to elect a President, do you think Roy Moore would have lost to Doug Jones? The Republican Party is a coalition of different groups coming together. Some are neocon war hawks who don't give a shyt about abortion, some are fiscal budget hawks who don't give a shyt about states rights, some are conservative cultural warriors who don't give a shyt about the tax rate, etc. To posit that they're all enjoying Trumpism doesn't seem correct to me. I mean, half the Republican leadership hates this guy more than the Dems do.

The data shows that the bolded is most likely bullshyt.

Why did a record 81% of white evangelicals vote for Donald Trump in the recent presidential election? A common explanation in the media is that these voters wanted to safeguard the empty seat on the Supreme Court with the hope of overturning Roe v. Wade. Though widely accepted, there are at least two problems with this explanation.

First, while abortion rights have been a consistent preoccupation (for conservatives and progressives alike), white evangelical support for Republican presidential candidates has been inconsistent. Pew Research data shows that 78% of white evangelicals voted for George W. Bush in 2004, 74% for John McCain in 2008, and 78% for Mitt Romney in 2012. Ballots cast for Trump hit a new high.

Second, despite the claims of pundits who speak on their behalf—pastors and other religious leaders—the abortion issue was not a primary concern for white evangelicals in this election. When, in November 2016, a LifeWay Research poll asked white evangelicals what one issue they considered most important when voting, only 10% said “Supreme Court nominees,” and a mere 4% said “abortion.” In contrast, 20% of pastors said “Supreme Court nominees,” and 10% said “abortion.”

In total, nearly half of white evangelicals considered the economy or national security most important when choosing between presidential candidates. Even when the Pew Research Center asked them which issues—not limited to a single one—were “very important” to them in deciding how to cast their votes, terrorism (89%) and the economy (87%) ranked higher than Supreme Court appointments (70%) and abortion (52%).

Myths Debunked: Why Did White Evangelical Christians Vote for Trump? | The University of Chicago Divinity School
At the end of The Evangelicals, her nearly 700-page history of white evangelical Americans from colonial times to the present, Frances FitzGerald settles on the last of these assessments. “The simplest explanation was that those evangelicals who voted for Trump had affinities with the Tea Party,” she writes. They seemed to care more about shrinking the government, creating jobs, and deporting illegal immigrants than about enforcing Christian morals. “The Trump victory had shown,” she goes on, “that the Christian right had lost its power.” Yet FitzGerald’s careful account offers grist for a much richer exploration of evangelicals’ affinity with Trump.

Why Conservative Evangelicals Have Lined Up for Trump
 

King Kreole

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@King Kreole

Republicans are showing you who they are and you keep refusing to believe them. Sad. :TrumpSigh:





The game plan hasn't changed in over 100 hears:

America's Black Holocaust Museum | Voting Rights for Blacks and Poor Whites in the Jim Crow South

They just keep telling you they don't want your black vote or you voting at all.

North Carolina GOP Brags Racist Voter Suppression Is Working—and They’re Right




JUST TAKE BANNON'S OWN WORDS:



But but but James, why do you keep saying it's irrelevant to focus on pre Trump...:SnoopSideye:


Negged and ignored. :camdup:

That Republicans are racist is a fact I've proclaimed time and time again, and accounted for in my analysis, so the fact you think this is news to me or some sort of gotcha moment indicates you haven't been reading the posts you've been responding to. I've also never said it's irrelevant to focus on pre-Trump, just that there is a segment of Republicans who aren't in love with the man and don't like his brand of politics, so acting as though the entire party and its voter bases is in lockstep with him is idiotic. But ok thanks for playing.
 

King Kreole

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Then come up with a actual actionable plan that can prevent black folks political irrelevancy. Instead of your hypothetical drivel.

You and Dead7 have the worst plans.
Hey Eddy, what's your plan to deal with the currently derealized political power of the black voting bloc and our impending political irrelevancy at the hands of demographic change?

That you would call the idea of threatening to show political independence from the Democratic Party by pulling back from the currently overwhelming levels of uncontested support we show them in order to force concessions "drivel" makes me think you have an unhealthy relationship to the Democratic Party, and that its leadership has been successful in stripping you of your political and social courage. If you're walking into negotiations and immediately take off the table the possibility of you not voting for them, it's gonna be a pretty short conversation.

And please don't say "Well...just run better, pro-black candidates!" as if they wouldn't be operating within a political environment that doesn't give a fukk about them and their issues. Good luck consistently getting through primaries when the party throws your corporatist, pro-Hispanic, pro-LGBT opponent piles of cash and access because those groups have actors who understand the nature of political power.
 

King Kreole

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Interesting. I also referenced Frances FitzGerald upthread as my reason for thinking Evangelicals were one-issue abortion voters, but these articles seem more thorough than the one I posted. The media doesn't seem to have a strong grasp on the Evangelical mindset.
 

King Kreole

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@King Kreole you still post here dog? :dead:

I can’t wait to dig through some of your wonderful trump predictions and make a thread. You had him sounding like Trump F Kennedy :dead:
:pachaha: hello old friend

Stopped posting here because the section went to shyt, was feeling myself last night so I decided to drop by for old times sake. Quickly reminded of why I left in the first place :russ:
 

TTT

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This article from the Atlantic is instructive about right wing identity politics. It is a log article that eventually delves into the Trump stuff but the themes are the same- racism being couched in economic terms, anti-Washington rhetoric and even Duke claiming he is not an enemy of AA

THIRTY YEARS AGO, nearly half of Louisiana voted for a Klansman, and the media struggled to explain why.

It was 1990 and David Duke, the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, astonished political observers when he came within striking distance of defeating incumbent Democratic U.S. Senator J. Bennett Johnston, earning 43 percent of the vote. If Johnston’s Republican rival hadn’t dropped out of the race and endorsed him at the last minute, the outcome might have been different.

To hear more feature stories, see our full list or get the Audm iPhone app.

Was it economic anxiety? The Washington Post reported that the state had “a large working class that has suffered through a long recession.” Was it a blow against the state’s hated political establishment? An editorial from United Press International explained, “Louisianans showed the nation by voting for Duke that they were mad as hell and not going to take it any more.” Was it anti-Washington rage? A Loyola University pollster argued, “There were the voters who liked Duke, those who hated J. Bennett Johnston, and those who just wanted to send a message to Washington.”

What message would those voters have been trying to send by putting a Klansman into office?

There’s definitely a message bigger than Louisiana here,” Susan Howell, then the director of the Survey Research Center at the University of New Orleans, told the Los Angeles Times. “There is a tremendous amount of anger and frustration among working-class whites, particularly where there is an economic downturn. These people feel left out; they feel government is not responsive to them.”

Duke’s strong showing, however, wasn’t powered merely by poor or working-class whites—and the poorest demographic in the state, black voters, backed Johnston. Duke “clobbered Johnston in white working-class districts, ran even with him in predominantly white middle-class suburbs, and lost only because black Louisianans, representing one-quarter of the electorate, voted against him in overwhelming numbers,” The Washington Post reported in 1990. Duke picked up nearly 60 percent of the white vote. Faced with Duke’s popularity among whites of all income levels, the press framed his strong showing largely as the result of the economic suffering of the white working classes. Louisiana had “one of the least-educated electorates in the nation; and a large working class that has suffered through a long recession,” The Post stated.


By accepting the economic theory of Duke’s success, the media were buying into the candidate’s own vision of himself as a savior of the working class. He had appealed to voters in economic terms: He tore into welfare and foreign aid, affirmative action and outsourcing, and attacked political-action committees for subverting the interests of the common man. He even tried to appeal to black voters, buying a 30-minute ad in which he declared, “I’m not your enemy.”

Duke’s candidacy had initially seemed like a joke. He was a former Klan leader who had showed up to public events in a Nazi uniform and lied about having served in the Vietnam War, a cartoonishly vain supervillain whose belief in his own status as a genetic Übermensch was belied by his plastic surgeries. The joke soon soured, as many white Louisiana voters made clear that Duke’s past didn’t bother them.

Many of Duke’s voters steadfastly denied that the former Klan leader was a racist. The St. Petersburg Times reported in 1990 that Duke supporters “are likely to blame the media for making him look like a racist.” The paper quoted G. D. Miller, a “59-year-old oil-and-gas lease buyer,” who said, “The way I understood the Klan, it’s not anti-this or anti-that.”

Duke’s rejoinder to the ads framing him as a racist resonated with his supporters. “Remember,” he told them at rallies, “when they smear me, they are really smearing you.”

The economic explanation carried the day: Duke was a freak creature of the bayou who had managed to tap into the frustrations of a struggling sector of the Louisiana electorate with an abnormally high tolerance for racist messaging.

While the rest of the country gawked at Louisiana and the Duke fiasco, Walker Percy, a Louisiana author, gave a prophetic warning to The New York Times.

“Don’t make the mistake of thinking David Duke is a unique phenomenon confined to Louisiana rednecks and yahoos. He’s not,” Percy said. “He’s not just appealing to the old Klan constituency, he’s appealing to the white middle class. And don’t think that he or somebody like him won’t appeal to the white middle class of Chicago or Queens.”

A few days after Duke’s strong showing, the Queens-born businessman Donald Trump appeared on CNN’s Larry King Live.

“It’s anger. I mean, that’s an anger vote. People are angry about what’s happened. People are angry about the jobs. If you look at Louisiana, they’re really in deep trouble,” Trump told King.

Trump later predicted that Duke, if he ran for president, would siphon most of his votes away from the incumbent, George H. W. Bush—in the process revealing his own understanding of the effectiveness of white-nationalist appeals to the GOP base.

“Whether that be good or bad, David Duke is going to get a lot of votes. Pat Buchanan—who really has many of the same theories, except it's in a better package—Pat Buchanan is going to take a lot of votes away from George Bush,” Trump said. “So if you have these two guys running, or even one of them running, I think George Bush could be in big trouble.” Little more than a year later, Buchanan embarrassed Bush by drawing 37 percent of the vote in New Hampshire’s Republican primary.
The Nationalist's Delusion
 
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