Steve Kerr was right about lebron

[Professor Emeritus]

I got four different Kobestans replying to me on the same thread. Must have hit a nerve.

If Lbron is so much better than Kobe, why is he on the verge of 2-5 instead of 5-2?

Damn, you STILL counting Shaq's championships for Kobe in 2016?

If Shaq had never been there, Kobe's probably still staring at only 2 for 20 in championships.

First of all, no way durant is losing to trash pacers and hawks with wade and bosh
And this is not kawhi's peak, most likely he is just getting started

I know that your previous posts have shown you don't have strong command of the facts, but Lebron has never played the Hawks with Wade and Bosh.

The ONLY time Lebron faced the 61-win Hawks, it was with 2nd/3rd best players out and his best sidekick being Delly. And we've all seen many times how often Durant wins when he loses a major player for his team.

Yes, I agree that Durant probably beats the Pacers, and the Raptors, about the same way Lebron did. But that only covers 3 of 6 - he still has to beat the near-defending-champ Celtics and 60+ win Bulls back-to-back, tough Pacers/Celtics teams back-to-back with Bosh out, Wade struggling frequently, and everyone else being trash, and the 50-win Bulls and the 60+ win Hawks back-to-back with hardly any teammates at all.

Most of those foes only look so weak in our memory because Lebron sonned them all in the end. Objectively, you're talking about a stretch where he beat 8 50-win teams (including two 60+ win teams) and the 49-win Pacers, often with major teammates out or injured....just to get to the Finals.

No doubt Kobe's efficiency drops in the Finals which probably comes down to shot selection, preparation and level of defense.

But why does his efficiency drop so far in the Finals if he is as unguardable as everyone says and can make whatever kind of shot the defense gives him because he's so versatile?

Yeah
Who did they have to beat? Hawks?

Beat the 61-win Hawks when the scoring stars alongside you are a d-league point guard and JR Smith?

That's one of those "Lebron was the only guy in the entire league who was likely to do that" series.

What did LeBron shoot last Finals? 39%? Ok, there you go.

Kobestan, where if you have to keep repeating the same lies to make your point look better, it's probably not a good point.

Lebron shot 40% in 2016, unless you failed math and don't understand rounding. And it was four times closer to 40% than 39%, so don't try the "almost" route.

Not only does 40% not sound very bad (especially matched with a 36-13-9-2-2 line against a great defensive team), it's comparable to Kobe's shooting average in six of his seven Finals combined.

2014 most of his numbers came after the Spurs had already taken command of the game and it was over. He's been a statpadder.

Only if you consider those games over midway through the second quarter. Otherwise, your claim doesn't fit reality at all.

And I love how Lebron is somehow simultaneously a frontrunner, a backrunner, has the best 1st-quarter scoring numbers in NBA history, has fantastic numbers in clutch situations (lead within 5 with less than 5 minutes left), and has led the league in 4th-quarter scoring often.

I guess Lebron only scores at the beginning of games, the end of games, when he's well ahead, when he's well behind, or when the game is close at the end.

2013 Danny Green was about to win Finals MVP while he was getting clamped by Boris Diaw

It's not just that you always post stupid, it's that you post stupid stuff, get corrected, shut your mouth because you can't defend yourself...and then post the same stupid stuff again later.

Danny Green had a better game than Lebron once in 2013. Lebron was the best player on the court in games 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7 (TP or Ginobli gets Game 5). But if San Antonio wins, that was Duncan's MVP and Danny Green wasn't getting a single vote.

As for Boris Diaw, he played played less than 20 minutes TOTAL in the first 3 games, when Lebron was struggling to find his shot. In Games 4-7, when Diaw started playing significantly (averaged 20 minutes/game), Lebron averaged 32ppg on 48% shooting. Quite some clamping down job there.

until Ray Allen saved him and he got a once-in-a-lifetime Game 7 where his jumper actually worked.

Ray Allen again. Talk like the guy who hit 1 shot "saved" the guy who had a 32-10-11 night and literally hit a 3 to save the game 10 seconds earlier and the go-ahead jumper in overtime 3 minutes later.

I don't know if we can count the number of games that Shaq/Horry/Fisher/Artest/Gasol "saved" for Kobe. Hell, even Shaw. But Kobestans have to keep talking about a single shot in a single game in 2013, because for the most part, everyone knows that every single series which Lebron has ever won, it was because Lebron balled out. And in series against tough teams, you only need one hand to count the number of games that Lebron's team won without Lebron being the best player on his team.

By the way, if Lebron's Game 7 against the Spurs was once-in-a-lifetime, than that 2006 Game 5 against Detroit, 2009 Game 1 against Orlando, 2011 Game 5 against Boston, 2011 Game 1 against Dallas, 2012 Game 6 against Boston, and and a ton of games where he destroyed lesser teams from outside in earlier rounds must all not have happened. He hit mad jumpers in all of them.

Basically when he's not bulldozing and stiffarming his way to the hoop and getting away with all sorts of offensive fouls, he's a brick layer.

Except that we've already shown that Lebron shoots the exact same % as Kobe from 16 feet and out, even though that's not remotely his best skill.

It's THE reason why he's lost so many Finals. Carlisle told Marion and Stevenson to play off him and dare him to shoot and pack the paint with two 7 footers. Pop even put Boris fukking Diaw on him and dared him to shoot. GSW is praying he takes jumpers but he's too shook to even try at this point.

In 2007, his second-best player was Daniel Gibson. You worship 23-year-old Lebron so much that you're willing to say he could single-handedly beat a Spurs team that had just taken out the West, even with a D-leaguer as his best sidekick, if only he had a jumper?

2014, he scored 28 ppg on 57% shooting with 52% from three. Lebron could have scored 35ppg on 60% shooting and they're still not winning that series, because nothing any single human can do on offense was going to overcome the ridiculous offensive display the Spurs put up.

2015, Lebron was 1 on 5 again, trying to beg Delly or JR or Shump or anyone to be his sidekick, but they were all horrific. Again, what are you expecting - that Lebron go 30-15-10 on 50/40/90 shooting? Even that wouldn't have come close to winning the series.

2016, the Warriors are winning whether Lebron hits jumpers or not because the supporting cast is barely hitting 30% of their threes and the Cavs don't have enough defense to hold everyone in check at once (not with Love and Kyrie being the main two scores outside Lebron). Lebron is 1 point and 1 steal from leading all players on both teams in points, rebounds, assists, steals, AND blocks while putting up 48/31/71 splits, and you think that the Cavs could win this series if he...what, put up 30-10-10-2-2 on 50/40/90 shooting? That would be epic for Finals history....and at most would have them at a 2-2 tie right now and still losing the series. Lebron has hit as good from three as his guards have (Kyrie/JR/Delly/Shump/Mo are 20-62 combined in the series), but no, it's the PF's failure to make 50% of his long jumpers that's costing the Cavs.

At least with Kobe you know your best player is going to at least TRY to win the game.

Did you just say you could reply on Kobe to try to win, when he has the most famous "I'm going to stop trying" performance in NBA Game 7 history?

Score 1 point on a tech free throw in the entire second half of a Game 7 brehs.

Not to mention that 2008 closeout game against Boston in the Finals where he literally only made three shots after the 5:30 mark of the 1st quarter and sleepwalked through his team losing by 40?

Put a guy like Kawhi or Iggy on LeBron and we'll... you know how it goes. What has he done when he had Leandro Barbosa or Steph Curry or Biyombo last round guarding him? Pass or throw up a brick..

In your world, Lebron sucks against great defenders and he sucks against bad defenders. He must do all his damage on possessions where they forget to defend him?

Crazy how LeBron will literally build a team to his exact liking and you shameless Bron stans will cape for him like "well he would have needed to do the impossible to win anyways."

If Kobe running Shaq out of town or treating his teammates like spectators is a knock on him, then LeBron forming flabbynsick super teams that repeatedly fail has to be a knock on him.

If Lebron was really the GM, and he was average at it, that would be epic. Because being a GM is a full time job and do don't expect some 27-year-old to be superior at it in his spare time than guys who live and breathe the job every day.

But even if Lebron was an "average" GM, which would be extraordinary, why would that give him a superior supporting cast? He'd still have an average supporting cast.

You're basically saying, "Lebron is to blame because in addition to being the best player in the world, he needs to be the best GM in the world too."

The sad part is, if Lebron is the GM, and he's basically done an average job and managed an average supporting cast....that's still light years ahead of anything the actual Cavs GMs have done in your lifetime.

Anyways, 2-5 don't lie. Dude is ass when he faces a Western Conference team.

Then I guess Kobe was ass against the best Western Conference team in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. That's a lot more than 5 times. Hell, by your standards he wasn't all that good against the good West teams in the 2000 playoffs either (20-4-3 on 44% shooting in the WCSF and WCF) or the 2002 WCF (27-6-4 on 42% shooting) or the 2004 WCF (24-4-6 on 41% shooting). That's 16 out of 20 years when Kobe didn't look very good, or couldn't pull out a win, against the best Western Conference teams. But when you have a Shaq, you can be mediocre and still win. That's the ONLY reason why he has 5 rings. Even on his good teams, Lebron has never had that luxury - he has to be the best player on the court for his team to win, and that has been true for ever team he's ever played for.

And Lebron was "ass" against the best team in the Western Conference in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016?

Lebron's play those five Finals DOMINATES Kobe's average Finals play against the "weak" Eastern Conference. It's just that the 30% of the time that Kobe was able to make the Finals, he almost always had a better team and better coaching than his opponent.

Yeah, Lebron gets flack for 2011, but Kobe has 2004. And the Warriors team beating Lebron now is better than the Celtics team that beat Kobe in 2008. The difference in their Finals is that there were plenty of times where Kobe could play like ass, and the team would win a game anyway because Kobe had one of the greatest coaches of all time, one of the most dominant players of all time, and usually had a better team/coaching than his opponent did. That's it.

His biggest competition in the East the last 4 years has been a Pacers team who's 2nd best player was Roy Hibbert. Tells you everything you need to know about his "6 straight Finals" you stans love to jerkoff about.

The best teams that Lebron beat in his 2011-2016 run are MUCH better than the best teams that Kobe beat in his 2008-2010 run. That's not even close to debatable. He had to get through multiple 60-win teams just to GET to those six Finals, while Kobe has never led his team to a series victory over a 60-win team in his entire career.

LeBron passing up an 15 footer with room to give Shumpert and open look which he will inevitably brick is apparently a better choice than Kobe taking the 15 footer with room and missing.

Bron stans

Yes, an open three-point shot to a shooter is ALWAYS better than an average 15 footer.

Even if the 3pt-shooter only shoots 33% from three (better if open), that's as good as hitting 50% from two. And Kobe only makes 44% of his 15-foot jumpers.

But I'm sure you'll make an argument now where Kobe's 44% is magically a "better" 44% than everyone else's so he just "should" shoot those shots, even though he's even worse on them in the Finals than he is normally and even worse in the last 5 minutes of the game than at any other time.

Kobestan is still in remedial math.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Do you agree with that flown that Kyrie has been the Cavs best player during the playoffs? Waaaaay too much shyt posting here man.

Once again you're proving you can't read properly and that you're clueless. If there's "shyt posting" on this board - YOU have a large contribution towards it.

 

[Gravity]

Once again you're proving you can't read properly and that you're clueless. If there's "shyt posting" on this board - YOU have a large contribution towards it.

Once again you quote me on some empty feminine sassy shyt. I read fine maybe you post so much that you forget what you've said. You said that Kyrie has been the best player for the Cavs during this series and arguably for the entire playoffs. That's silly and it's not arguable. As shook and passive as Lebron has been during this series he's still been the Cavs best player. Kyrie was abused defensively the first two games and although he's played better the last two Lebron has still been the better player. Kyrie played good defense in game 3 then reverted back to his subpar self defensively in game 4. Even in game 3 when Kyrie went off that first quarter Lebron helped facilitate that and then actually carried the team that second half while the game was still in reach for GS. Lebron is expected to lead the team, score, facilitate and play defense. Kyrie is just basically asked to score. Lebron is who GS game plans for. When have you seen Kyrie double teamed or swarmed by GS?

You don't know basketball dude. I doubt that you've ever played the game on any kind of organized level and it comes through in how you talk about it. All you can do is read stats.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Isn't kyrie the leading scorer for the cavs this series?

Yes, Kyrie is at 25-4-4 on 43/30/90 while Lebron is at 25-11-8 on 48/31/71. Kyrie has scored 1 more point than Lebron so far.

This dude out here speaking what we all assumed at the time.

Discounting a 3 peat title run in which the second fiddle's overall playoff impact was comparable or worse than Pippen's best second-fiddle playoffs:

2000: 21-4-4 on 44% shooting with Shaq as actual offensive focus, defensive stopper, and unanimous Finals MVP
2001: 29-7-6 on 46% shooting with Shaq as actual offensive focus, defensive stopper, and unanimous Finals MVP
2002: 26-6-5 on 43% shooting with Shaq as actual offensive focus, defensive stopper, and unanimous Finals MVP


Meanwhile LeBron's playoff averages when he won were:

2012: 30-10-6 on 50% shooting with Lebron as best player on offense and defense and unanimous Finals MVP
2013: 26-8-7 on 49% shooting with Lebron as best player on offense and defense and unanimous Finals MVP

2001 and 2002 Kobe seemingly had a somewhat inferior statline compared to 2013 LeBron, but it looks even worse when you consider that the attention on Shaq was giving Kobe open shots plus he didn't have to carry his team on defense. Kobe was also only 23 and 24 years old in the 2001 and 2002 playoff runs, respectively. Not even in his prime and putting up two of the best playoff runs of his career, showing you how much those results were due to Shaq's presence and not his own skill.

It's just pathetic what Kobestan has been reduced to. Literally downplaying the dominance of one of the greatest player's in their own team's history or disgarding them entirely in order to keep their hero in a positive light.

Had to fix that all over the place for you.

Actually, no, once you fix the fact that you rounded multiple Lebron numbers in the wrong direction and failed to take shooting % and defense into account at all, not to mention that Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team, your argument looks dumb as hell.


And you still haven't explained 2000, which Kobe gets "credit" for even though its not nearly as good as the hands full of titles that Sam Jones and Scottie Pippen don't get "credit" for.

Keep in mind this is the same guy who told me a career of 2000 Kobe Bryant wasn't as good as Sam Jones. Even though his 99-2000 season averages are better than Sam Jones' career averages across the board. He literally just makes things up in order to justify his LeBron stannery.

God, you can't be so dumb to think that you just made a good argument.

Look at Sam Jones playoff numbers from 1962 to 1968. That stretch dwarfs Kobe's 2000, especially Kobe's absolutely embarrassing Finals.

Sam Jones's overall averages are very slightly worse than Kobe's 2000 just because you factor in his first three years and his retiring years, where he played limited minutes. But no one defines a playoff career within that average as the lead headline - they look at what they did at their peak.

If Kobe's best performances were a string of 2000's, where he's averaging 21-4-4 on 44% shooting and a shyt 15-4-4 on 37% shooting in the Finals, and Sam Jones is having a five-year stretch where he's going 26-5-3 on 48% shooting, then yeah, Sam Jones is gonna look like he had a better career than Kobe.

So why doesn't Sam Jones get to count the 6 championships he picked up as a second fiddle in years where he performed as good or better than Kobe in 2000, but Kobe gets to count 2000?

This whole, "What you did in some completely different year 10 years later validates the previous decade and lets you count something as what it was not" is the stupidest narrative in all Kobestan. And that's saying something.

Lmao "Shaqs championships". Shaq doesn't even have one single finals win before Kobe, but Shaq is the only reason Kobe has 5 rings? .

It's like you're sitting next to a toilet, actually forcing shyt into your own mouth so that you can then regurgitate it back onto the forum.

Hes the same idiot who says Lbron has eliminated 12 50 win teams in the playoffs. In reality, Lbron has only eliminated 8. So he isn't making shyt up now, he always does.

Weren't you the one repeatedly claiming "7" and forgetting to include a single team from either one of Lebron's championship seasons?

So what do you have to say about people who "make shyt up" again?



Let's remember the two best teams that a Kobe-led team ever beat in the playoffs, wins-wise, were a 59-win Orlando team and a 56-win Spurs team that had Ginobli hurt. That's it. Those are the only teams with more than 54 wins that a Kobe-led team ever beat.

Meanwhile, Lebron's teams took out the 56-win 2011 Celtics, the 62-win 2011 Bulls, the 58-win 2012 Thunder (in 82 games), the 62-win 2013 Spurs, the 56-win 2014 Pacers, the 60-win 2015 Hawks, and the 56-win 2016 Raptors. That's seven teams already JUST counting teams were 56+ wins, of which Kobe only has TWO!

Then you have the 2007 Pistons, the 2012 Pacers (in 82 games), the 2012 Celtics (in 82 games), and the 2015 Bulls.

I already noted that I had accidentally included the 2013 Pacers (49 instead of 50), as if that one win difference actually matters. So it was 11, not 12. Still way better than your claim of "7".

And still better than the "10 teams in 13 years" for Kobe-led teams.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Once again you quote me on some empty feminine sassy shyt.

Can you stop doing this? How the fukk are you going to accuse others of "empty feminine sassy shyt" when I've seen MULTIPLE posters callin you out for "feminine" behavior ever since SOHH, doeboy. Deal with your shyt and stop projecting it onto everyone else.

You said that Kyrie has been the best player for the Cavs during this series and arguably for the entire playoffs. That's silly and it's not arguable.

It's most certainly arguable when he has been the Cavs best player by a considerable margin in the last two games and he has been the main aggressor/top scorer for the Cavs for pretty much the entire playoffs. Does he have the best argument? Probably not, but he's still in the frame which is basically my point. It's important if you pay attention to the context of the discussion before jumping in - it was simply to highlight that @Qohelet's assertion that 'Kyrie ain't shyt' is most certainly false due to how important and great Kyrie's play has been - that he has an ARGUMENT for being their best playoff performer. It's not simply just LeBron carrying the rest of the team on his back.

Kyrie was abused defensively the first two games and although he's played better the last two Lebron has still been the better player. Kyrie played good defense in game 3 then reverted back to his subpar self defensively in game 4..

This is why I know you don't know shyt about defense, and are simply going on the common narrative of his defensive play instead of looking at what actually happens on the floor.

Even in game 3 when Kyrie went off that first quarter Lebron helped facilitate that and then actually carried the team that second half while the game was still in reach for GS.

LeBron scored 21 of his 32 points after the Cavaliers already had a 14-pt lead in the third quarter in G3, after Kyrie did most of the heavy lifting in the first half to build that lead - allowing LeBron to piggyback off it. Irving was clearly the best player in that game. The fact that you're only telling one side of the story and amplifying details more than what actual impact they had on the game leads me to believe you're letting your preconceived beliefs and this petty agenda you have get in the way ONCE AGAIN.

Lebron is expected to lead the team, score, facilitate and play defense. Kyrie is just basically asked to score. Lebron is who GS game plans for. When have you seen Kyrie double teamed or swarmed by GS?.

LeBron's roles only have relevance to this argument [Kyrie arguably been the Cavs best performer in this series] if he's carrying them out at a level which definitively surpasses Kyrie's impact with the roles he has (he's asked to do more than just score). Especially since he was the main reason for their only win in this series. And don't act like LeBron hasn't been given a shooting cushion all throughout this series either - it's not like GS haven't just left Iggy by himself to defend LeBron throughout a large part of this series. You're acting as if the Warriors defense is treating him like Curry.

You don't know basketball dude. I doubt that you've ever played the game on any kind of organized level and it comes through in how you talk about it. All you can do is read stats.

What did I tell you about projecting?

 

[Gravity]

Can you stop doing this? How the fukk are you going to accuse others of "empty feminine sassy shyt" when I've seen MULTIPLE posters callin you out for "feminine" behavior ever since SOHH, doeboy. Deal with your shyt and stop projecting it onto everyone else.

If you stopped acting feminine then I'll stop describing you as being feminine. It's that simple. You like to quote me just to have something slick/sassy to say and that shyt is feminine Your last post directed at me is a perfect example. You don't say shyt about the topic just some smart remark.

It's most certainly arguable when he has been the Cavs best player by a considerable margin in the last two games and he has been the main aggressor/top scorer for the Cavs for pretty much the entire playoffs.

This isn't true and evidence of your shyt basketball analysis. Kyrie has not been the Cavs best player for the last two games. He had a great first qtr in game 3 which Lebron had a hand in, but Lebron carried the team after that. In game 4 he had some good moments and some bad moments. His defense sucked and while he was their best scorer the hero ball shyt hindered them a bit. He was aggressive to a fault at times. Lebron has been no doubtedly their best all around player over these 4 games and it's not even arguable.

Does he have the best argument? Probably not, but he's still in the frame which is basically my point.

He clearly doesn't have the best argument. There's no "probably" about it.

It's important if you pay attention to the context of the discussion before jumping in - it was simply to highlight that @Qohelet's assertion that 'Kyrie ain't shyt' is most certainly false due to how important and great Kyrie's play has been - that he has an ARGUMENT for being their best playoff performer. It's not simply just LeBron carrying the rest of the team on his back.

Kyrie has not played "great" tho. I wouldn't say that he's not shyt but there are clear holes in his game. He's not even really playing point guard because they can't trust him to run the team. Lebron is actually taken over the responsibility of his position because Kyrie isn't a good floor general or play maker. He's a good ISO one on one offensive player and that's the only role that he plays right now. To even suggest that it's arguable that he's their mvp for this series let alone the playoffs as a whole is a testament to your lack of understanding of the game dude.

This is why I know you don't know shyt about defense, and are simply going on the common narrative of his defensive play instead of looking at what actually happens on the floor.

So Kyrie hasn't sucked in offense outside of one game this series? What the fukk are you looking at? The game plan is to literally go at whoever he is guarding.

LeBron scored 21 of his 32 points after the Cavaliers already had a 14-pt lead in the third quarter in G3, after Kyrie did most of the heavy lifting in the first half to build that lead - allowing LeBron to piggyback off it. Irving was clearly the best player in that game. The fact that you're only telling one side of the story and amplifying details more than what actual impact they had on the game leads me to believe you're letting your preconceived beliefs and this petty agenda you have get in the way ONCE AGAIN.

First off all the game just isn't about scoring. While Lebron wasn't scoring until later on that game he was doing everything else.
Getting steals playing defense, and facilitating on offense which is partly why Kyrie had such a great 1st qtr in the first place. 2nd, 14 points is clearly not insurmountable in the NBA especially for a team with great 3point shooting. You're talking like the game was over due to Kyrie's first qtr which is another testament to your ignorance. Kyrie had 30 but 19 of those came in the first qtr. it was only a bout 6-8 point game at halftime. The game was not over after his "heavy lifting". In that 3rd qtr when Lebron took over the scoring load it was much needed. He closed the game out.

LeBron's roles only have relevance to this argument [Kyrie arguably been the Cavs best performer in this series] if he's carrying them out at a level which definitively surpasses Kyrie's impact with the roles he has (he's asked to do more than just score). Especially since he was the main reason for their only win in this series. And don't act like LeBron hasn't been given a shooting cushion all throughout this series either - it's not like GS haven't just left Iggy by himself to defend LeBron throughout a large part of this series. You're acting as if the Warriors defense is treating him like Curry.



What did I tell you about projecting?

More empty sassy shyt. You didn't say anything here, you just repeated the same unsubstantiated shyt that you've already said. Kyrie has been their best player even tho he played like complete shyt in the first two games and has had only one good all around game. You say that he's asked to do more than score but you don't give any examples of what he's asked to do other than score. He has 17 assists for the series and 8 of them came in one game. He's been a liability on defense in every game except game 3. Lebron clearly hasn't played up to expectations but he's still clearly their best player who effects the game in ways that Kyrie doesn't.

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

Yes, Kyrie is at 25-4-4 on 43/30/90 while Lebron is at 25-11-8 on 48/31/71. Kyrie has scored 1 more point than Lebron so far.





Had to fix that all over the place for you.

Actually, no, once you fix the fact that you rounded multiple Lebron numbers in the wrong direction and failed to take shooting % and defense into account at all, not to mention that Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team, your argument looks dumb as hell.


And you still haven't explained 2000, which Kobe gets "credit" for even though its not nearly as good as the hands full of titles that Sam Jones and Scottie Pippen don't get "credit" for.





God, you can't be so dumb to think that you just made a good argument.

Look at Sam Jones playoff numbers from 1962 to 1968. That stretch dwarfs Kobe's 2000, especially Kobe's absolutely embarrassing Finals.

Sam Jones's overall averages are very slightly worse than Kobe's 2000 just because you factor in his first three years and his retiring years, where he played limited minutes. But no one defines a playoff career within that average as the lead headline - they look at what they did at their peak.

If Kobe's best performances were a string of 2000's, where he's averaging 21-4-4 on 44% shooting and a shyt 15-4-4 on 37% shooting in the Finals, and Sam Jones is having a five-year stretch where he's going 26-5-3 on 48% shooting, then yeah, Sam Jones is gonna look like he had a better career than Kobe.

So why doesn't Sam Jones get to count the 6 championships he picked up as a second fiddle in years where he performed as good or better than Kobe in 2000, but Kobe gets to count 2000?

This whole, "What you did in some completely different year 10 years later validates the previous decade and lets you count something as what it was not" is the stupidest narrative in all Kobestan. And that's saying something.






It's like you're sitting next to a toilet, actually forcing shyt into your own mouth so that you can then regurgitate it back onto the forum.






Weren't you the one repeatedly claiming "7" and forgetting to include a single team from either one of Lebron's championship seasons?

So what do you have to say about people who "make shyt up" again?



Let's remember the two best teams that a Kobe-led team ever beat in the playoffs, wins-wise, were a 59-win Orlando team and a 56-win Spurs team that had Ginobli hurt. That's it. Those are the only teams with more than 54 wins that a Kobe-led team ever beat.

Meanwhile, Lebron's teams took out the 56-win 2011 Celtics, the 62-win 2011 Bulls, the 58-win 2012 Thunder (in 82 games), the 62-win 2013 Spurs, the 56-win 2014 Pacers, the 60-win 2015 Hawks, and the 56-win 2016 Raptors. That's seven teams already JUST counting teams were 56+ wins, of which Kobe only has TWO!

Then you have the 2007 Pistons, the 2012 Pacers (in 82 games), the 2012 Celtics (in 82 games), and the 2015 Bulls.

I already noted that I had accidentally included the 2013 Pacers (49 instead of 50), as if that one win difference actually matters. So it was 11, not 12. Still way better than your claim of "7".

And still better than the "10 teams in 13 years" for Kobe-led teams.

Lol. Doesnt work like that fool. You can't give credit for wins that never happened. So, no, its not 11, or 12, or whatever random number you want to make up. Kobe eliminated 24 50 win teams. Lbron, hasn't even got to 10.

 

[#1 pick]

Let's be real, a Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving led team would be more disappointing the the Bucks with Allen, Robinson and Cassell in 2001-02. @Gil Scott-Heroin, you better hope and pray LeBron don't leave, I will be in your ass about Kyrie from here till he retires.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Let's be real, a Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving led team would be more disappointing the the Bucks with Allen, Robinson and Cassell in 2001-02. @Gil Scott-Heroin, you better hope and pray LeBron don't leave, I will be in your ass about Kyrie from here till he retires.

You've already been proven wrong when it comes to Kyrie. Just take your L and move along.

 

[#1 pick]

You've already been proven wrong when it comes to Kyrie. Just take your L and move along.

I've always been right about Kyrie. An undersized SG who's a fake ass Stephon Marbury with Rod Strickland's skill-set.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I've always been right about Kyrie. An undersized SG who's a fake ass Stephon Marbury with Rod Strickland's skill-set.

Do you hear yourself? The same criticisms you throw at Kyrie can be used for Lillard - who you prop without end.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

This isn't true and evidence of your shyt basketball analysis. Kyrie has not been the Cavs best player for the last two games. He had a great first qtr in game 3 which Lebron had a hand in, but Lebron carried the team after that. In game 4 he had some good moments and some bad moments. His defense sucked and while he was their best scorer the hero ball shyt hindered them a bit. He was aggressive to a fault at times. Lebron has been no doubtedly their best all around player over these 4 games and it's not even arguable.

This is why I can't you seriously on anything you post. You only tell half the story in order to get your agenda across.

 

[Codeine Bryant]

Kobestan, where if you have to keep repeating the same lies to make your point look better, it's probably not a good point.

Lebron shot 40% in 2016, unless you failed math and don't understand rounding. And it was four times closer to 40% than 39%, so don't try the "almost" route.

Not only does 40% not sound very bad (especially matched with a 36-13-9-2-2 line against a great defensive team), it's comparable to Kobe's shooting average in six of his seven Finals combined.

:lolwtf: So the crux of your argument is that it was 40% instead of 39% over a 6 game sample size?
That's what you're nitpicking? Oh, and by the way, last year was 2015. Not 2016. So before you try to belittle others for assuming or miscounting, you should learn how to read a calendar. Or that 12 months = 1 year.

Also, I like how you completely ignore the most important fact and the crux of my argument which was he shot abysmally outside of 5 feet. Doesn't fit your narrative? Do what you always do and just ignore it. Good job, good effort.

Only if you consider those games over midway through the second quarter. Otherwise, your claim doesn't fit reality at all.

They were. 2014 Finals was a blowout.

It's not just that you always post stupid, it's that you post stupid stuff, get corrected, shut your mouth because you can't defend yourself...and then post the same stupid stuff again later.

Danny Green had a better game than Lebron once in 2013. Lebron was the best player on the court in games 1, 2, 4, 6, and 7 (TP or Ginobli gets Game 5). But if San Antonio wins, that was Duncan's MVP and Danny Green wasn't getting a single vote.

As for Boris Diaw, he played played less than 20 minutes TOTAL in the first 3 games, when Lebron was struggling to find his shot. In Games 4-7, when Diaw started playing significantly (averaged 20 minutes/game), Lebron averaged 32ppg on 48% shooting. Quite some clamping down job there.

I never said Danny Green outplayed LeBron in 2013. Good reading comprehension. I said that he was on his way to winning Finals MVP going off the first 5.5 games and assuming the Spurs hadn't choked it away.

Tim Duncan?? Really? Danny Green was on fire and set an NBA Finals record for most 3pt makes in the Finals, and only needed like the first 4 or 5 games to do it. He was CLEARLY going to win the Finals MVP to anybody that was watching it. He was the MAIN story of the Finals. Well, his play from downtown and LeBron's complete ineptitude on offense. Nobody was talking about Duncan, the discussion was all about Green and most fans know this. Then again, most fans don't irrationally stan a guy who routinely comes up short when he plays the West in a 7 game series.

LeBron shot 43% in Game 1, 41% in Game 2, 33% in Game 3, 60% Game 4, 36% in Game 5, 42% in Game 6, and 52% Game 7. Again, Ray Allen saved him. Game 7 he got to boost his FG%. He had 1 good shooting game in the first 6.

Speaking of posting stupid stuff and getting corrected. If only you would shut your mouth this time

Ray Allen again. Talk like the guy who hit 1 shot "saved" the guy who had a 32-10-11 night and literally hit a 3 to save the game 10 seconds earlier and the go-ahead jumper in overtime 3 minutes later.

I don't know if we can count the number of games that Shaq/Horry/Fisher/Artest/Gasol "saved" for Kobe. Hell, even Shaw. But Kobestans have to keep talking about a single shot in a single game in 2013, because for the most part, everyone knows that every single series which Lebron has ever won, it was because Lebron balled out. And in series against tough teams, you only need one hand to count the number of games that Lebron's team won without Lebron being the best player on his team.

By the way, if Lebron's Game 7 against the Spurs was once-in-a-lifetime, than that 2006 Game 5 against Detroit, 2009 Game 1 against Orlando, 2011 Game 5 against Boston, 2011 Game 1 against Dallas, 2012 Game 6 against Boston, and and a ton of games where he destroyed lesser teams from outside in earlier rounds must all not have happened. He hit mad jumpers in all of them.

Yeah, it most definitely saved him. You do realize that if Ray Allen doesn't make that shot, he's 1-6 right now in the Finals (assuming he loses to GSW in this current series)? That's the difference between him and Kobe. If Kobe loses one Finals because a role player does step up, he's still 4-3.

LeBron has 2 rings and one of them was dependent on the biggest choke of all time and the most clutch shot of all time. Neither of which directly involved him.

Except that we've already shown that Lebron shoots the exact same % as Kobe from 16 feet and out, even though that's not remotely his best skill.

Not in the Finals he doesn't, which is mainly what this thread is about, given its context and its timing. Use a little common sense here.

His broken jumper is routinely on display every June. 2011, 2013, 2015, 2016. There. That's at least 4 of his 6 appearances teams have dared him to shoot and more often than not, he either was too scared to actually shoot or did and it was brick city.

In 2007, his second-best player was Daniel Gibson. You worship 23-year-old Lebron so much that you're willing to say he could single-handedly beat a Spurs team that had just taken out the West, even with a D-leaguer as his best sidekick, if only he had a jumper?

2014, he scored 28 ppg on 57% shooting with 52% from three. Lebron could have scored 35ppg on 60% shooting and they're still not winning that series, because nothing any single human can do on offense was going to overcome the ridiculous offensive display the Spurs put up.

2015, Lebron was 1 on 5 again, trying to beg Delly or JR or Shump or anyone to be his sidekick, but they were all horrific. Again, what are you expecting - that Lebron go 30-15-10 on 50/40/90 shooting? Even that wouldn't have come close to winning the series.

2016, the Warriors are winning whether Lebron hits jumpers or not because the supporting cast is barely hitting 30% of their threes and the Cavs don't have enough defense to hold everyone in check at once (not with Love and Kyrie being the main two scores outside Lebron). Lebron is 1 point and 1 steal from leading all players on both teams in points, rebounds, assists, steals, AND blocks while putting up 48/31/71 splits, and you think that the Cavs could win this series if he...what, put up 30-10-10-2-2 on 50/40/90 shooting? That would be epic for Finals history....and at most would have them at a 2-2 tie right now and still losing the series. Lebron has hit as good from three as his guards have (Kyrie/JR/Delly/Shump/Mo are 20-62 combined in the series), but no, it's the PF's failure to make 50% of his long jumpers that's costing the Cavs.

Never mentioned 2007. But you seem to have a fetish for counting all of Kobe's failures to beat the "best team in the West" every single year even when he's surrounded by Smush Parker and Luke Walton, now you want to make excuses for LeBron. Funny.

2015, again, he couldn't make a jump shot to save his life. Again, you conveniently ignore his lack of a midrange or 3pt game and heavy reliance on barreling into the paint, which is something GSW is designed to stop. And yeah, his team was injured, but we're seeing now that even if they were healthy, they still probably wouldn't have won. Delly and Mozgov gave them a better chance by slowing it down and playing better defense. Love and Kyrie are liabilities out there.

2016, see everything I just wrote for 2015. But at least he was attempting jumpers last year. Now he's looking like 2011 all over again. Kyrie needs more help.

Did you just say you could reply on Kobe to try to win, when he has the most famous "I'm going to stop trying" performance in NBA Game 7 history?

Score 1 point on a tech free throw in the entire second half of a Game 7 brehs.

Not to mention that 2008 closeout game against Boston in the Finals where he literally only made three shots after the 5:30 mark of the 1st quarter and sleepwalked through his team losing by 40?

This is hilariously ironic given the fact that LeBron clearly quit on his team in 2010 after he found out Delonte was blowing out his mom's back. Was content bringing the ball up court, passing it, and standing in the corner for the last 2 games of the series. But only a LeBron stan like you could possibly overlook this and crucify Kobe for something LeBron is guilty of himself.

Fact is, Kobe never checked out of Finals like LeBron did in 2011 and has done in this Finals. Kyrie averaging 30ppg on almost 50% shooting.

Where's LeBron been at? Oh yeah, he dropped a FORMIDABLE 19 points last game until he got 6 easy ones during garbage time to pad his stats. I'm sure you're thoroughly impressed by that.

In your world, Lebron sucks against great defenders and he sucks against bad defenders. He must do all his damage on possessions where they forget to defend him?

are you even talking about here? Shut up. The point I was making is that he has a broken jumper and his heavy reliance on being able to get to the hoop to score the majority of his buckets is what has cost him most of his Finals losses. And it's true. Teams have and are still daring him to shoot in June and he can't do it. A point that is the crux of what I and others in here are saying, and a point that you still haven't refuted.




There's a whole lot of other garbage you're spewing that I just don't care to even individually quote at this point. Basically you go on to immensely for how LeBron should be given props for assembling a team that routinely comes up short. Typical LeBron stan. Finding a way to praise your savior in his repeated failures.

If he's putting together a team that can't win it all, and firing his coach and assuming GM duties, maybe he should not do those things and focus on his deteriorating offensive game? Just a thought.

And then you go on to talk about how Kobe's stats were made better by playing alongside Shaq, but conveniently not mentioning the impact playing alongside Wade and Bosh had on LeBron. Typical Bron stan.

Then you AGAIN use the dumb argument that Kobe couldn't beat the best team in the West X amount of times.
Shut up already. I showed you how dumb this statement was in another thread, and it looks like I'll have to do it again.

Kobe beat the best team in the west 7 times out of 20 possible times.
LeBron beat the best team in the west 2 times out of 13 possible times.

Kobe 7/20 = 35% success rate
Bron 2/13 - 15% scucess rate

Again, take your remedial ass back to 5th grade math

When Kobe plays alongside a HoFer, you discredit his work. When LeBron plays alongside 2 HoFers, well, we all see that you won't discredit his work.


Anyways, your boy is about to be 2-5 and I look forward to more pathetic from you in the future.

And for the record, I'm not even a "Kobestan," I'm a Mavericks fan. Dirk stan if anything. But it's clear you have LeBron's nuts all the way into your esophagus it's causing your eyes to tear up and you can't even watch the games on television anymore. You just check box scores and FG% numbers. It's clear to anybody who's been watching the Finals this year that LeBron has been pretty pathetic outside of Game 3.

But of course, I'm sure you'll find a way to drag Kobe's name through the mud in order to deflect from LeBron like you always do

 

[Codeine Bryant]

@The Dankster It's ironic that you say LeBron's beat more 60 win teams than Kobe has.

But you don't want to take it to 50 win teams

Take your selective stat bullshyt out of here. By the way, this was LAST YEAR. So his number now is actually 8 after beating the Raptors.

Again, beats up on shytty East teams and then crumbles against the West. Kobe routinely beat teams in the WCF that were just as good or better than the Finals teams LeBron has lost to.

 

[Gravity]

This is why I can't you seriously on anything you post. You only tell half the story in order to get your agenda across.

This is why I call you sassy. What's the point of responding just to say this? You didn't refute anything that I said. You're the one work the agenda.