MoshpitMazi
Moshpit Gxng/ Anti Fash
Dame
The Jokic top 10 All-time Conversations will be uncomfortable
- Thread starter 2legit
- Start date
cartierhoe
Veteran
Dame was hurt in the playoffs, also AG is Jokic's #3 option. Dame is Giannis #2 and he doesn't really have anybody else on AG's level.
Not to mention the previous conventional wisdom was that a 6’6 guard couldn’t win a title without a dominant big. MJ shattered all of that.
But that’s the type of idiot to look at what Shai is doing and believe Jordan wouldn’t also dominate today.
murksiderock
Superstar
I'll start from the end of your posts and work my way up:I don’t understand why it would be uncomfortable.
People have Curry in the top ten (I do). Wilt, Russell, Shaq and Kobe are all getting pushed out if they aren’t already out the top ten.
I don’t think KD will get there even if he gets another title somehow. Giannis could have a chance but I see him going down hill soon. Plus if he gets to the Spurs, he might end up Wemby’s Robin if they get a chip.
Realistically that only leaves Joker as a possible top ten guy. Honestly, one more ring plus another MVP might put him there. That would push him passed Shaq and Kobe if you have them in your top ten.
I personally still have Wilt and Russell in my top ten.
MJ
Bron
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Curry
^^^^^^^^
Are all Teflon. The last three spots are between Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Russell, and Hakeem (I think Hakeem isn’t top ten worthy but many Coli Brehs do).
A current uncomfortable question is has Joker surpassed Hakeem as his career stands.
Has Joker already passed Giannis and KD?
@murksiderock thoughts?
Jokic passed Giannis a few years ago, as Jokic has proven to be the more consistent and reliable playoff guy. Jokic is never missing time in the playoffs, which Giannis has done multiple times, and Jokic's worst performances (and this OKC series overall was NOT a series for mf's to be championing Jokic on)....his worst performances aren't nearly as bad as Giannis'...
Jokic is a more reliable player who hits his ceiling more consistently. That said, I think to this point, Giannis is clearly the second greatest player of this era, and the margin between he and Jokic ain't that large. I stand by that...
Giannis could feasibly jump back over Jokic, their careers aren't finished, and they are close. Both have one Finals appearance, two conference finals appearances. Both are historically dominant...
The seperator is when you compare theor playoff resumes. Jokic's is just better...
He has NOT passed Durant. One thing I really dislike with present day ball talk, is how people undercut and downplay how great Durant and LeBron were. They dont really do this with Steph, they dont do it with Kawhi (they overrate him), they "kinda" do it with Harden...
To this point, Durant had a longer prime, led multiple teams to Finals runs, and for an extended period of time was the second best player in a loaded era. I will say, that I think Jokic peaked higher than Durant...
But Durant also played in a West that was the superior bracket and routinely had his team on deep postseason runs. Jokic to date, has two deep runs to his name (2020, 2023). And while I stand by him having a better playoff resume than Giannis, Jokic's last two playoff exits aren't helping any case people want for him as the greatest offensive player ever, or a GOAT10 guy, or what have you...
Durant's not Top 10, so Jokic ain't there either. All things fair, at only 10 years in, Jokic still has time to get there, and I'd bet more on the side of, he does get there, than he doesn't...
But as we sit here thru the 2025 season, thru 10 full years of a Jokic career, he aint that close. Durant is in the GOAT15 to me, Jokic isn't at that stage yet. In the Top 20, someone already pointed out in this thread that Mo was a 3x MVP with one championship (but two Finals runs, and at the time the greatest prep-to-pro player ever)...
Jokic's skillset is unique because centers weren't historically taught to play this way. But his RESULTS are why he ranks as highly as he does---->and why he won't ascend higher, if he doesn't. His results to this point aren't better than Moses Malone's results...
I think plenty of people would make the argument that Dr J is still ahead of Jokic...
I'm comfortable saying that, as is thru 10 years, he's one of the 25 greatest players ever, and knocking on the door of Top 20. This puts him at, to me, the same historical level of David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Elgin Baylor, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett.........and Giannis, who I think is also GOAT25-ish but in arm's reach of a GOAT20 case. You can make the argument that Jokic is greater than any of these guys, you could make thar same argument in reverse, but ultimately this is where he sits thru 10 completed years....
I'll reiterate that he ostensibly has more time to build his case, and is more likely than not to finish Top 10 level...
They did it with Kawhi after the '19 title, too...
THEY WERE TRYING TO
DO THE SAME THING WITH GIANNIS
WHEN IT LOOKED LIKE
HE WAS GONNA GO ON A RUN.
THESE CACS WANT FOREIGN PLAYERS
TO BE ELEVATED OVER THE GREATS
BECAUSE THEY KNOW NO
WHITE AMERICAN PLAYER IS DOING IT.
THEYLL MOVE TO SGA
IF OKC CAN WIN THIS YEAR
I like Simmons but he's been OD on Jokic for several years. I respect his basketball mind but he the same guy, after the Nets lost a Rd2 series in '21, very next day went on air and called KD a GOAT10 guy...Yeah I fukk with Jokic and love watching him play but Bill Simmons did go a bit overboard with the Jokic praise. He seriously called Jokic's airball against the Clippers that AG cleaned up an alley oop
Giannis to me is still the best 2 way player in the league but his supporting cast is shyt (worse than Jokic's). The gap between the 2 really isn't that large as people make it out to be.
Simmons is a heat of the moment guy
BigTyme Records
Superstar
@murksiderock the homie but Jokic >> KD for me.
Jokic is an entire offense , a leader etc. KD is amazing but hes not carrying shyt. That’s not his game.
Jokic is an entire offense , a leader etc. KD is amazing but hes not carrying shyt. That’s not his game.
I'd take Jokic over Prime Shaq, to keep it a bean
.
A big man who can stretch the floor, orchestrate the offense, and get you a bucket from just about anywhere on the court is hard to come by.
I'd take Kareem and Wilt over Jokic, though, but I think he's more valuable than Shaq.
. A big man who can stretch the floor, orchestrate the offense, and get you a bucket from just about anywhere on the court is hard to come by.
I'd take Kareem and Wilt over Jokic, though, but I think he's more valuable than Shaq.
murksiderock
Superstar
I think KD being as great as he was, for as long as he was, and taking his team on deep runs as often as he did, in a West that was viewed as stacked as the West of Jokic's era, I think all that has value. I get you though, bruh!
mastermind
Rest In Power Kobe
So starting in 2010-11 when Bron was at his peak? That’s an insane statement.
I don’t think Jokic better than Curry was, but I can understand that discussion.
I don’t understand why it would be uncomfortable.
People have Curry in the top ten (I do). Wilt, Russell, Shaq and Kobe are all getting pushed out if they aren’t already out the top ten.
I don’t think KD will get there even if he gets another title somehow. Giannis could have a chance but I see him going down hill soon. Plus if he gets to the Spurs, he might end up Wemby’s Robin if they get a chip.
Realistically that only leaves Joker as a possible top ten guy. Honestly, one more ring plus another MVP might put him there. That would push him passed Shaq and Kobe if you have them in your top ten.
I personally still have Wilt and Russell in my top ten.
MJ
Bron
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Duncan
Curry
^^^^^^^^
Are all Teflon. The last three spots are between Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, Russell, and Hakeem (I think Hakeem isn’t top ten worthy but many Coli Brehs do).
A current uncomfortable question is has Joker surpassed Hakeem as his career stands.
Has Joker already passed Giannis and KD?
@murksiderock thoughts?
Your bugging kobe ain't going no where he's top 2 only behind mj your better come up with some other names
Yeah I fukk with Jokic and love watching him play but Bill Simmons did go a bit overboard with the Jokic praise. He seriously called Jokic's airball against the Clippers that AG cleaned up an alley oop
Giannis to me is still the best 2 way player in the league but his supporting cast is shyt (worse than Jokic's). The gap between the 2 really isn't that large as people make it out to be.
Facts i still have giannis over joker
murksiderock
Superstar
That's such an arbitrary metric, the "3peat". So is Russell the GOAT to you? Because if you are holding that standard with consistency, only one guy won 8 straight titles, which nearly triples the 3peat---->and he didn't take no break in between any of those 8 rings to "reset"...
Championships matter, whether they come back to back is a personal metric but isn't something that matters in honest basketball analysis. Wilt never went back to back and he was the GOAT to plenty of people for many years. Ditto for Bird...
Duncan has never really been considered in the conversation for THE best player ever, but you could make the argument for him. And he never went back to back...