Essential The Official MMA Thread

[Blackking]

If that were true then wouldnt he have immediately faced the number 1 contender as soon as he came off his "injury".No instead he faced a dude coming off a loss who had been suspended a year why u ask? for the munay
same old shyt same old shyt
so this guy has made a career of outwrestling WWs and thinks the next challenge would be to outwrestle lightweights who are 15lbs smaller? i thought the saying was "upwards and onwards" not "downwards and backwards" its not that serious

I'm not a fan of his... but trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. My first instinct is that he wants to dominate smaller opponents and that he's scared of the best fighter in the world.

The only thing I disagree with is that he should go str8 for the #1 contender. I can give him a pass to get warmed up to that.

 

[Master Teacher]

didnt bisbing also take down stann too? and the leben that got KOd by stann was on over the limit on painkillers no?because hes based in london and has always been based in london.Which isnt known for wrestling? non to speak of on the school curriculum or college level = you arent likely to have competent coaches = or fighters with such skill its just common sense

It's worked good for Silva who has no wrestling whatsoever
Do you not recognize how athletic this guy is, his movement alone is going to be hard for guys to get a hold of him without getting their heads knocked off

and if gets taking down, what makes you so sure he can't submit them

 

[Screwface Exchange]

seems like UFC is beginning to reach it's peak talent wise, Dana need to do some more recruiting real martial artist and leave that TUF shyt alone

He need to bring this due to UFC
UCMMA: Ultimate Challenge - UCMMA 26: Michael Page Great KO! - YouTube

the TUF shows are not about finding real talent, its about building and re introducing fighters to the tv audience, so that can help sell future ppv's. When UFC recruits or finds a real stud of a prospect they dont waste their time puttin em on TUF, as they dont want them to lose and get forgotten about. They sign em n put em to work on sum scrubs to work their way up.

Dana/lorenzo/joe silva's main problem is trying to avoid the same pitfalls that boxing got hit with. You can have great fights, high level technical and really entertaining, but no1 will know who da f is fighting and thus extremely low ppv numbers. Or you can put 2 big names that have a strong following and core fan base, or are so hated every1 wants to see em lose, get strong ppv #'s but have the most boring or most 1 sided fight and it leaves ppl with a bad taste in their mouths.

Take a look at a fighter like Alex Caceres, da kid lost on the show, didnt even mk finals, still got a ufc contract. Then went on to lose 3 of his first 4 fights in the ufc. But still got his contract renewed, why? Cuz fans identify and recognize the name Bruce Leroy from the show, and will tune in to a prelim fight to see the guy fight. Meanwhile sum dudes win the show or finish top 2 and still get cut cuz they just didnt build a rapport or draw of fans.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

An elite level striker can learn to stuff take downs a lot faster than a wrestler can become slick on his feet. If the striker can get back to his feet repeatedly, what other options does the wrestler have, the fight is over.

An Elite level striker doesn't have to master wrestling in order to negate it

There's a reason why Anderson has dominated as long as he has

He does have to master grappling though. There is no such thing as a striker who has not put in a crazy amount of time wrestling/grappling who is a champion. There is no striker who has mastered takedown defense to the point where he does not have to learn how to grapple. There are many who havnt mastered the grappling discipline known as wrestling but some strong discipline in grappling is a necessity for a champion.

 

[Master Teacher]

the TUF shows are not about finding real talent, its about building and re introducing fighters to the tv audience, so that can help sell future ppv's. When UFC recruits or finds a real stud of a prospect they dont waste their time puttin em on TUF, as they dont want them to lose and get forgotten about. They sign em n put em to work on sum scrubs to work their way up.

Dana/lorenzo/joe silva's main problem is trying to avoid the same pitfalls that boxing got hit with. You can have great fights, high level technical and really entertaining, but no1 will know who da f is fighting and thus extremely low ppv numbers. Or you can put 2 big names that have a strong following and core fan base, or are so hated every1 wants to see em lose, get strong ppv #'s but have the most boring or most 1 sided fight and it leaves ppl with a bad taste in their mouths.

Take a look at a fighter like Alex Caceres, da kid lost on the show, didnt even mk finals, still got a ufc contract. Then went on to lose 3 of his first 4 fights in the ufc. But still got his contract renewed, why? Cuz fans identify and recognize the name Bruce Leroy from the show, and will tune in to a prelim fight to see the guy fight. Meanwhile sum dudes win the show or finish top 2 and still get cut cuz they just didnt build a rapport or draw of fans.

High level fighters will sell UFC, which these TUF guys are not they're boring, and are only competitive against each other. Nobody wants to see Bruce Leroy fight anybody, they need to a better way, because these TUF guys are not panning out

The last TUF guy who was about something was Rashard Evans

 

[Master Teacher]

He does have to master grappling though. There is no such thing as a striker who has not put in a crazy amount of time wrestling/grappling who is a champion. There is no striker who has mastered takedown defense to the point where he does not have to learn how to grapple. There are many who havnt mastered the grappling discipline known as wrestling but some strong discipline in grappling is a necessity for a champion.

Once again your not understanding. Damien Maia is a master grappler, Anderson Silva is not as good as him at grappling, but he doesn't need to be, he just has to to be good enough to avoid having to play his game.

Strikers don't have to be as good on the ground as the grapplers they go against to neutralize them, thats the point I'm making.

 

[Roman Brady]

I agree with you.. I was just saying how the rules favor some.. just saying it to mr movement.

That cant be true cuz either your opinion changes as the winds blows or u just agree to anything because in post #6648 u are concurring with this statement

Name a wrestler who is dominate in MMA now, them days over dawg, motherfukkers stuff taking downs, and if goes to the ground wrestlers stay getting submitted

which is just ridiculous because that wasnt the topic and even if it was we know how easily a wrestler can win in mma.And did diaz sub gsp? did diaz sub bendo? did mir sub cormier? how did amasou do against askren? the list goes on.

It's worked good for Silva who has no wrestling whatsoever

what part of "always been based in london" didnt you understand? Anderson has travelled and as had his share of training partners now hes gettin aided by munoz.To mention silva is just silly

Do you not recognize how athletic this guy is, his movement alone is going to be hard for guys to get a hold of him without getting their heads knocked off

thats all well and good but that isnt the ufc tho

and if gets taking down, what makes you so sure he can't submit them

what makes you so sure he can? how far did the gracies and ricardo almieda's jitz take them against hughes

The only thing I disagree with is that he should go str8 for the #1 contender. I can give him a pass to get warmed up to that.

That seems to be his get out of jail clause but whatever happened to a fighter (who is clearly gettin older & naturally filling out)
moving up in his prime?

 

[Mr. Somebody]

I think his philosophy on fighting and life and family are his biggest strengths. I also, feel that's why he doesn't vibe well with the culture of the league and owners- at times.

Anyway, back to one of my original points... you point out the strength of wresting n all that but Silva has submitted some World class Top of the line bjj and wrestlers.. and he is a stand up person who just learn some ground. Stand up Martial arts is what gets you knocking out 17 of the best fighters on the planet and submitting the wrestlers. At almost 40 years old... who can you say would give him a good match in the UFC???

and u say he has to win fights his way, he used to get sh1t from people saying that his ground game is weak - but I feel it's one of the strongest and he just doesn't have to use it. Also, if a person gets in the ring with him who is BJJ... all he has to do is switch back and forth between southpaw and not go for the take-down. Walk away without a scratch.

Anderson silva goes where the fight takes him. Anderson silva has only submitted 1 guy in my memory who has decent grappling credentials and thats Travis Luter but what he has never done is submit anyone with the credentials of Damien Maia. Damiens grappling is very respected and Anderson respected it enough to not play that game with him at all. Damien didnt want to take the abuse required to earn those takedowns so he basically showed up to lose. Wrestlers have way better takedowns than BJJ guys because of explosive power and thats somethign Damien doesnt have or was not willing to use against Anderson.

Anderson is not a standup person who just learned some ground. By saying that, friend you're negating how much work is put into creating an elite level ground machine. You negate his judo black belt as well. Hes not just a striker. He is a complete martial artist. By dedicating that much time to grapplign you gain a better understand than you would just learning how to defend takedowns. Eventually, someones going to take you down and then what, you wont always be able to just stand backup, especially with fatigue and a more skiled opponent trying to land strikes.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Once again your not understanding. Damien Maia is a master grappler, Anderson Silva is not as good as him at grappling, but he doesn't need to be, he just has to to be good enough to avoid having to play his game.

Strikers don't have to be as good on the ground as the grapplers they go against to neutralize them, thats the point I'm making.

Ok but Anderson Silva has a bjj black belt. You're making avoiding a takedown sound easy and you're also making it seem like you can have willy nilly credentials and do what Anderson Silva is able to do. Judo Black Belt, BJJ Black Belt with advanced takedown defense, friend. He needs those weapons to combat grapplers and his fight reel is enough to make people avoid trying to take him down more so than if he was a stranger on the street who had beef with Damien Maia.

 

[Screwface Exchange]

High level fighters will sell UFC, which these TUF guys are not they're boring, and are only competitive against each other. Nobody wants to see Bruce Leroy fight anybody, they need to a better way, because these TUF guys are not panning out

The last TUF guy who was about something was Rashard Evans

I would have to disagree with you there. No1 knew who Uriah Hall was before, even though he was a champ in another mma promotion. Off this 1 season of TUF, millions of fans now know who he is, and would tune in to a ufc on fox card to see him fight maybe as the 1 fight of the main card, or on the prelims.

There's a lot of high level fighters in the UFC, but majority of them don't sell fights. Yeah, the tuned in and real martial arts fan knows who they are and want to see them like many of us here. But the many of us aren't the ppl who the ufc makes money off. It's the random fans buying ppv's at home, or home on a saturday night watching on fox. Not the guys who r streaming fights from promotions in japan that casual fans have heard of. For every Rousimar Palhares, there's a Brian Stann headlining a fight against Silva because every1 knows the explosions they gonna see. Not because they are the most skilled fighters currently.

If ppl really wanna see highly skilled fighters face each other, then go watch the Adu Dhabi world championships, go watch some amateur wrestling. UFC is a sport and here to entertain while making money.

 

[Master Teacher]

Ok but Anderson Silva has a bjj black belt. You're making avoiding a takedown sound easy and you're also making it seem like you can have willy nilly credentials and do what Anderson Silva is able to do. Judo Black Belt, BJJ Black Belt with advanced takedown defense, friend. He needs those weapons to combat grapplers and his fight reel is enough to make people avoid trying to take him down more so than if he was a stranger on the street who had beef with Damien Maia.

Anderson has a black belt like damn near everybody else in MMA who is a professional that doesn't mean he's elite at BJJ he would've been a damn fool to get a BJJ match with Damian Maia

He is elite at Muy Thai and striking, thats his base and that's what he uses the most

If Damian was as good as striking as he was at Muy Thai, he'd probably want to stand most of the time

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Anderson has a black belt like damn near everybody else in MMA who is a professional that doesn't mean he's elite at BJJ he would've been a damn fool to get a BJJ match with Damian Maia

He is elite at Muy Thai and striking, thats his base and that's what he uses the most

If Damian was as good as striking as he was at Muy Thai, he'd probably want to stand most of the time

Im not saying he should have had a bjj match with him im saying you cannot be a champ in the ufc with basic grappling and im sorry but there are tons of ufc fighters who dont have bjj black belts but most champs do have some kind of strong High level grappling base, whether that be bjj black belt or ncaa champ.

 

[Blackking]

That cant be true cuz either your opinion changes as the winds blows or u just agree to anything because in post #6648 :

I didnt read ur post close enuf, because I though you were agreeing with @Master Teacher about that point--- which is the point I was also trying to make. If you read all my other post you can clearly see that. And yes... you aren't correct because most of the current champions and top contenders prove you otherwise. Everyone learns bjj these days, even me personally will probably be learning it for the next 4 years.

 

[Roman Brady]

I didnt read ur post close enuf, because I though you were agreeing with @Master Teacher about that point--- which is the point I was also trying to make. If you read all my other post you can clearly see that. And yes... you aren't correct because most of the current champions and top contenders prove you otherwise. Everyone learns bjj these days, even me personally will probably be learning it for the next 4 years.

what are you talking about? the topic is wrestlers are favoured in american mma and miceal page isnt going to have the easy ride Master Teacher thinks he will for that very reason.The other stuff master teacher was spouting and you were agreeing to was not only baseless but had nothing to do with the original debate

 

[Blackking]

Anderson silva goes where the fight takes him. Anderson silva has only submitted 1 guy in my memory who has decent grappling credentials and thats Travis Luter but what he has never done is submit anyone with the credentials of Damien Maia. Damiens grappling is very respected and Anderson respected it enough to not play that game with him at all. Damien didnt want to take the abuse required to earn those takedowns so he basically showed up to lose. Wrestlers have way better takedowns than BJJ guys because of explosive power and thats somethign Damien doesnt have or was not willing to use against Anderson.

Anderson is not a standup person who just learned some ground. By saying that, friend you're negating how much work is put into creating an elite level ground machine. You negate his judo black belt as well. Hes not just a striker. He is a complete martial artist. By dedicating that much time to grapplign you gain a better understand than you would just learning how to defend takedowns. Eventually, someones going to take you down and then what, you wont always be able to just stand backup, especially with fatigue and a more skiled opponent trying to land strikes.

Silva is complete as hell... but he's a striker.. I laugh when people try to say that he's avoiding the ground with guys like Maia... Silva is also a beast on the ground--- look at the fact that you learn arm locks and close punches in stand up that can help u on the ground, combined with his judo, and black belt bjj - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this Brazilian isn't scared of a real wrestler or bjj guy, friend.... however, why take that stress, and struggle and ground clinches when you don't have to??

ntm, Anderson knows how to get up.. it's just that he will lose points or get disqualified with some of the ways that he knows how to get back up (back to my points about the UFC rules). but that's irrelevant because he's a black belt in basically everything. He can stop an explosive wrestler because that wrestler has to start of standing or squatting... More than likely Silva would have to slip on sweat- for that guy to be quick or powerful enuf to get him to the ground. It's difficult to stagger or square off in a wrestling stance if you're worried about getting your brain rattled by a foot.