Tom Brady has surpassed Joe Montana as the GOAT – Stephen A. | First Take

[mastermind]

If tom brady was 8-0 in SBs you would be correct. so that means he's been losing in SBs multiple times.

No, that means that he dominated the better conference and made Super Bowls.

Something Montana couldn’t do.

 

[Jplaya2023]

No, that means that he dominated the better conference and made Super Bowls.

Something Montana couldn’t do.

So if he "dominated" the better conference and made SB's, why couldn't he be undefeated vs the "inferior" conference in the SB?

also, every Brady SB has been won by a TD or less. Let's not act like he's winning 55-10 on some montana shyt. That dominating a weaker conference.

 

[Copy Ninja]

the nfc won 13 straight sbs during montana's time. what does that tell you? The nfc championship was basically the SB back then. No team was dominating the nfc because it was the superior conference. How hard is that to understand? Your not going to make the SB every year when your going against all time great teams like the 85 bears 86 giants and so forth.

And I can easily say that's got to do more with how shytty the AFC was.

If you want to put things in context we can say Brady played against another GOAT candidate in Peyton every year, free agency guts teams every year, QB play is as good as it's ever been yet Brady keeps winning and performing when it matters in the biggest stage.

If you want to say Montana is GOAT, i don't even care it's your opinion. Same with people who say it's Peyton. I don't care. But when people say Brady don't belong or hold the 3 SB loses against him is crazy. In all those loses, he led the Patriots to leads with 3 minutes or less left. That 4th quarter comeback against Seattle was epic then he followed that up against the Falcons which was even more epic. Not to mention all the other game winning drives in the other SBs. Dude has been the definition of clutch in the biggest stage.

 

[mastermind]

So if he "dominated" the better conference

There is no quotation. He has won the AFC Championship nine times.

why couldn't he be undefeated vs the "inferior" conference in the SB?

Because of parity. The AFC and the NFC for those 15 years were not playing the same football. Go back to your VHS tapes, it's all there.

also, every Brady SB has been won by a TD or less. Let's not act like he's winning 55-10 on some montana shyt. That dominating a weaker conference.

Montana and the 49ers only won one game 55-10

And again, the AFC and NFC weren't even playing the same football back then.

 

[filial_piety]

What was Roger Craig’s average carries a game in San Fran?

Not sure, but to contrast the issue, in 1988 the 49ers made 527 rushing attempts...30 years later, in 2018 they rushed 423..that's a difference of over 100 rushing attempts.

 

[mastermind]

Not sure, but to contrast the issue, in 1988 the 49ers made 527 rushing attempts...30 years later, in 2018 they rushed 423..that's a difference of over 100 rushing attempts.

You can find that information, yet couldn't find Roger Craig's carries per game. Okay.

Carries per game average has dropped in the last 30 years across the NFL by 70 carries. That's a much better metric than whatever nonsense you came up with.

And Roger Craig never got above 20 carries per game with San Francisco which refutes your post about the 49ers since they were not a primary run team.

 

[filial_piety]

You can find that information, yet couldn't find Roger Craig's carries per game. Okay.

Carries per game average has dropped in the last 30 years across the NFL by 30 carries. That's a much better metric than whatever nonsense you came up with.

And Roger Craig never got above 20 carries per game with San Francisco which refutes your post.

I gave you the team rushing attempts in 1988 versus 2018...you don't like the answer because it doesn't fit your narrative

You didn't refute anything. What you're suggesting is misleading.

It doesn't matter how many rushes Roger Craig had, it only matters what the team had--because Roger Craig isn't the only RB on the team who attempts Rushes*

The total team rushes are over 100 less now than they were 30 years ago.

Please explain the significance and the value of looking ONLY at Roger Craig rather than the totality of the team's rushing attempts*

I'll wait...I have time.

 

[mastermind]

I gave you the team rushing attempts in 1988 versus 2018...you don't like the answer because it doesn't fit your narrative

Your statistical argument was flawed. You didn't use comparable teams between 1988 and 2018. The 1988 49ers were a completely different team than the 2018 49ers in nearly everything. They don't play the same offense, have similar talent, the same record, the same place in teh similar record. I actually gave you a better statistic to help your argument because I felt bad for you. (average carries for the entire league)

ou didn't refute anything. What you're suggesting is misleading.

It doesn't matter how many rushes Roger Craig had, it only matters what the team had--because Roger Craig isn't the only RB on the team who attempts Rushes*

You said running backs got 20-25 carries a game back then. Roger Craig never averaged that. Roger Craig played for the 1980s 49ers. It literally refuted your point.

Please explain the significance and the value of looking ONLY at Roger Craig rather than the totality of the team's rushing attempts*

You made a point about RBs running the ball 20-25 times a game when talking about Montana vs. Brady. I used the lead RB on Montana's team to refute your point. It's not rocket science, but maybe this is for you.

 

[filial_piety]

Your statistical argument was flawed. You didn't use comparable teams between 1988 and 2018. The 1988 49ers were a completely different team than the 2018 49ers. They don't play the same offense, have similar talent, or even a similar record. I actually gave you a better statistic to help your argument because I felt bad for you. (average carries for the entire league)


You said running backs got 20-25 carries a game back then. Roger Craig never averaged that. Roger Craig played for the 1980s 49ers. It literally refuted your point.


You made a point about RBs running the ball 20-25 times a game when talking about Montana vs. Brady. I used the lead RB on Montana's team to refute your point. It's not rocket science, but maybe this is for you.

Ok, I'm done. THis is just a poor attempt on your part to actually make any sense and to make a legitimate point. It's a weak argument to simply look at Roger Craig as opposed to anyone who made rushing attempts for the team.

It's quite simple. THe 49ers made 100 less Rushing attempts in 1988 than they did in 2018. I never uttered a thing about what Roger Craig did alone, nor do I care or see the significance of that.

 

[mastermind]

Ok, I'm done. THis is just a poor attempt on your part to actually make any sense and to make a legitimate point. It's a weak argument to simply look at Roger Craig as opposed to anyone who made rushing attempts for the team.

It's quite simple. THe 49ers made 100 less Rushing attempts in 1988 than they did in 2018. I never uttered a thing about what Roger Craig did alone, nor do I care or see the significance of that.

Breh, you don’t understand statistics and how they work.

Comparing the 1988 49ers with the 2018 49ers makes no sense for reasons I gave, along with randomly choosing on year. I actually gave you better data to support your argument and you still won’t get off that because you do not understand statics.

And the point in me bringing up Roger Craig was to show that the 49ers were not a run-first offense.

Like I said earlier, you don’t understand how to analyze statistics. You should take a course on it.

 

[Raquinotj]

So because Joe failed to get to the SB as much as Brady he gets bonus points?

I say this all the Time, 5 Rings >>> 4 Rings, People that dont like Brady think that Losing before the super bowl is a bigger accomplishment that losing in the super bowl.

 

[Raquinotj]

They said almost 50% of Tom Brady's career wins came against the Bills, Dolphins and Jets. 3 of the most historically bad franchises in the last 20yrs. Being in the AFC East means you win only 2 games and you are in the Super Bowl.

Patriots Dominate the rest of NFL as they do vs. AFC East, Which team you think he'd have trouble beating on a consistent basis the last 20 years? Take 3 other teams and add the patriots, Make a Division where Patriots wouldn't dominate, I'll wait...

Brady is 84-22 That’s a .792 winning percentage. Outside the division, he is 152-48 (.760).

To help you out, Here are the top 10 teams since 2000 in point differential:

1. Patriots (2711)
   
   
2. Steelers (1466)
   
   
3. Packers (1241)
   
   
4. Eagles (1209)
   
   
5. Ravens (1115)
   
   
6. Colts (745)
   
   
7. Seahawks (734)
   
   
8. Chargers (650)
   
   
9. Saints (593)
   
   
10. Broncos (514)

Based off their titles and title game appearances these are the top ten most successful teams of the 21st century:

1. Patriots ( 5 SB, 9 AFC titles, 13 AFC title games)
   
   
2. Steelers (2 SB, 3 AFC titles, 6 AFC title games)
   
   
3. Giants (2 SB, 3 NFC titles)
   
   
4. Ravens (2 SB, 4 AFC title games)
   
   
5. Seahawks (1 SB, 3 NFC titles)
   
   
6. Eagles (1 SB, 2 NFC titles, 6 NFC title games)
   
   
7. Colts (1 SB, 2 AFC titles, 4 AFC title games)
   
   
8. Broncos (1 SB, 2 AFC titles, 3 AFC title games)
   
   
9. Packers (1 SB, 4 NFC title games)
   
   
10. Saints ( 1 SB, 3 NFC title games)

 

[Saysumthinfunnymike]

Exactly, it's a different league now and to ignore that is to ignore reality.

Yup and @mastermind Montana only threw over 500 passes twice. Brady has 5 years over 600 passes. Why you continue to ignore how the game has changed is kinda funny at this point lol

 

[BucciMane]

Yup and @mastermind Montana only threw over 500 passes twice. Brady has 5 years over 600 passes. Why you continue to ignore how the game has changed is kinda funny at this point lol

No one is denying the game has changed. However, the game has changed with players being larger and faster, teams having more turn over year after year, and other factors.

Those are changes as well impact performance.

 

[BrehWyatt]

Tom Brady's been the GOAT ever since 28-3 happened.