Top 10 NBA Player List: #7 of all-time

[William Heavy]

This is where things get tricky. Was Russell and Wilt really that great, or were they products of playing against 6'5 white dudes who smoked cigarettes everyday? Would Russell be getting 20+ rebounds per game in later eras? Would Wilt be getting 50 points per game in later eras? Russell was 44% career shooter, was he really that great? I never seen them play, but Wilt was in the league as an old man still putting up numbers when Kareem was young,and Kareem was still great well into the late 80's. Another reference player when comparing the 60's to later eras for me is Havlicek. He was putting up numbers in the early 60s as well as the mid-late 70's as a old guy.

As far as having Shaq and Duncan below Bird, the coli got it correct. Although Shaq had the most dominant 3 year stretch i've ever seen, before that he was on teams getting swept in the playoffs, and after he was second banana on teams and had trouble running out to contest Mehmet Okur jumpshots on pick and rolls. Plus Shaq benefitted on 2 of the most questionably officiated games in history, game 7 against portland in 2000 and game 6 in 02 against sacramento. Shaq was also a major liability in the clutch with that free throw shooting. Duncan also very great, but the second half of his career he differed too much to his teammates and played within the flow of the system. Bird was always the alpha dog on his team. Even the year Cornbread got MVP, Bird was the catalyst he just shot the ball like shyt and Cedric shot the ball well. Even when Bird had two bum ankles and a fukked up back, he was still the man on his team. Wherever you rank Magic, Bird better be right there with him. those two were neck and neck for a whole decade. And before 87 Bird was considered not only better than Magic, but maybe the greatest player ever. It was after 87 where Magic took that next step. This might be blasphemous to some, but I think I might have to put Magic and Bird ahead of Wilt and Russell.

 

[Richard Wright]

No fukking way Lebron should be ranked worse than wilt. Are you fukking kidding me with these votes?


Wilt should be long gone! Only two rings in the 60s era!

 

[Ben.]

Shaq at #8 Easily better than Wilt and Bird

My vote is still Wilt since #10

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

lol bro lebron is 3/7 in finals play, wit 2 of those finals being won by sheer luck (draymond suspension/steph choking & bosh rebound due to duncan benching/ray allen three)…..now, im not here to discredit his 3 rings, but lets be honest. the over/under on how many finals lebron woulda made if he played out west is 3, and thats bein generous.

duncan….lmfao. the guy whos been role player status for the past 7 years or so?? the guy whos team was competing for a ring wit him averaging 7 points a game?? i dont even need to defend this one, kill that noise.

shaq…okay, shaq is a tough one. he coulda been the goat if he had the proper work ethich…but he didnt. and kobe proved he was the better one when he won 2 more without shaq, while shaq struggled to win another one playing behind wade. so this one been deaded too.




want me to truly explain to yall why u guys rank kobe so low? its because of bspn…..scoop jackson has went on record to say that the writing staff at bspn is mainly comprised of anti-kobe dudes who love them some lebron, young frat boys who swear by the king and do whatever they can to tarnish kobe's legacy. like some of the posters we find here at the coli…only, they are much more hazardous to the general public, because they help the consensus generate an opinion wit the garbo they spew….so the casuals have been fed this narrative of kobe not really bein goat level when his play has said otherwise, and an equally bogus narrative of lebron being on the level of michael jordan, when his play clearly indicates he isn't…..so this bullshiit has been shoved down yall throats for so long that you jus consume it wit no questions asked. it's a shame, really…but my basketball purists know whatsup.

Bron was underdog in 5 Finals and he still won 3 championships when he should only have 2

Kobe has been underdog in max 2 Finals

Bron has done more with less

and more talented all-around game

 

[Sccit]

Bron was underdog in 5 Finals and he still won 3 championships when he should only have 2

Kobe has been underdog in max 2 Finals

Bron has done more with less

and more talented all-around game

Didn't we have this discussion? Or was that wit someone else .. Being underdog in the finals (especially when u play on superteams) doesn't count for you.. It counts AGAINST u. That means if he played in the west, he more than likely wouldn't have even went to the finals in all them years.


And Kobe had definitely done more wit less .. Kobe won wit pau as a second fiddle, equivalent to if Bron woulda won wit bosh or love as a second fiddle.


Let's be real, the fact that u made this thread right after Bron won the title and 5 years removed from kobes prime has had a great influence on your poll .. If you make this thread in 2010, Kobe makes top 5 easy ..... Which is why we'd have to revisit this thread in 10 years to get legit results not influenced by the moment.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Didn't we have this discussion? Or was that wit someone else .. Being underdog in the finals (especially when u play on superteams) doesn't count for you.. It counts AGAINST u. That means if he played in the west, he more than likely wouldn't have even went to the finals in all them years.

he played for a very debatable super team especially come 2013 onwards when Wade/Bosh were clearly not up to par

being an underdog means it is a bonus if you do win, and not a disappointment if you don't

the only disappointment was the Dallas series, because Miami were favourites and they fukked up

I can't hypothesise about what would happen if Bron was in the West, that's another discussion

but his teams coming into the Finals for the most part have been vastly inferior to the opposition, especially in 2007 and 2015 and even 2016 to some extent

but what would happen if Bron was on those Shaq-led Laker teams or the depth-filled talent with Odom, Gasol, Ariza, Fisher etc.?

Bron makes ANY team a contender, he's a proven winner time and time again in that regard. Kobe struggled with crappy talent around him, except putting up big personal stats. Bron would take those teams to the playoffs out West for sure and probably towards the final four

 

[Sccit]

he played for a very debatable super team especially come 2013 onwards when Wade/Bosh were clearly not up to par

being an underdog means it is a bonus if you do win, and not a disappointment if you don't

the only disappointment was the Dallas series, because Miami were favourites and they fukked up

I can't hypothesise about what would happen if Bron was in the West, that's another discussion

but his teams coming into the Finals for the most part have been vastly inferior to the opposition, especially in 2007 and 2015 and even 2016 to some extent

but what would happen if Bron was on those Shaq-led Laker teams or the depth-filled talent with Odom, Gasol, Ariza, Fisher etc.?

Bron makes ANY team a contender, he's a proven winner time and time again in that regard. Kobe struggled with crappy talent around him, except putting up big personal stats. Bron would take those teams to the playoffs out West for sure and probably towards the final four

Bro he played on superteams... Stop that. The reason he wasn't favored is because he wasn't Kobe or Michael.. He's BEEN known to underperform on the big stage. You don't get points for being an underdog playin wit 2 other franchise players .......


And you put Lebron wit shaq



They definitely don't three peat, maybe not even win one .. Their games don't compliment each other whatsoever ..



You put Lebron wit pau as his second fiddle and he struggles to make playoffs .. Let alone in the west. That's like if bosh or love was his second option. The rest of the Kobe-Pau lakers supporting cast was mediocre at best, Lebron would kill Lamar odoms career quicker than he did Larry Hughes'

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Bro he played on superteams... Stop that. The reason he wasn't favored is because he wasn't Kobe or Michael.. He's BEEN known to underperform on the big stage. You don't get points for being an underdog playin wit 2 other franchise players .......


And you put Lebron wit shaq



They definitely don't three peat, maybe not even win one .. Their games don't compliment each other whatsoever ..



You put Lebron wit pau as his second fiddle and he struggles to make playoffs .. Let alone in the west. The rest of the supporting cast was mediocre at best, Lebron would kill Lamar odoms career quicker than he did Larry Hughes'

Bosh is not a franchise player and I'm a Raptors fan telling you that straight up

He's an elite 2nd tier star but not franchise. Wade, yes.

But once again they weren't all at their peak, it's like saying the Lakers team that had Shaq, Bryant, Payton and Malone had 4 franchise players on their team...obviously two of those players were at the tail end of their careers.

All Shaq needed at the time were sharp shooters and a playmaker. Bron/Shaq PnR would be devastating and feeding Shaq in the post and having the shooters that he did, easy money. Even LeBron would find them with precise passing. They'd be fine. Not saying they'd work as seamlessly as the Bryant/Shaq partnership did but they'd win championships.

Bron is a better team player. But no point guessing what would happen if someone was here or there. Hypotheticals seldom work anyway.

Anyway I've said this before to someone else, I don't mind if you put Kobe ahead of Bron but after this championship, that was the turning point for me personally. Kobe never could put up a Finals performance like that against a team that talented. But amongst all these players...Duncan/Kobe/Bron/Shaq, I honestly don't know how to rank them. They all had their strengths over each other.

 

[TrebleMan]

The way I rank them is who I'd build a team around. I can't imagine building a team around Bird than Shaq, so like breh said earlier, I voted for Bird last time and same here. Imagine being a GM with both Bird and Shaq on the board the pick before yours, only to see that team pass on Shaq.

If you watch that Orlando documentary, it's clear how much a rookie Shaq changed that team around. Like the article I posted in the other thread also, if they called the games how they were supposed to be called, Shaq would have fouled out everyone by half-time based on how much more they let other players get away with physically.

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Why are people voting Bird ahead of Russell?

Bird is the GOAT Celtic

 

[Sccit]

Bosh is not a franchise player and I'm a Raptors fan telling you that straight up

He's an elite 2nd tier star but not franchise. Wade, yes.

But once again they weren't all at their peak, it's like saying the Lakers team that had Shaq, Bryant, Payton and Malone had 4 franchise players on their team...obviously two of those players were at the tail end of their careers.

All Shaq needed at the time were sharp shooters and a playmaker. Bron/Shaq PnR would be devastating and feeding Shaq in the post and having the shooters that he did, easy money. Even LeBron would find them with precise passing. They'd be fine. Not saying they'd work as seamlessly as the Bryant/Shaq partnership did but they'd win championships.

Bron is a better team player. But no point guessing what would happen if someone was here or there. Hypotheticals seldom work anyway.

Anyway I've said this before to someone else, I don't mind if you put Kobe ahead of Bron but after this championship, that was the turning point for me personally. Kobe never could put up a Finals performance like that against a team that talented. But amongst all these players...Duncan/Kobe/Bron/Shaq, I honestly don't know how to rank them. They all had their strengths over each other.

Lmao what are you takin about, it's not compatible to Payton-Malone lakers, wade and bosh WERE in or around their prime .. Wade was even better than Lebron at first ..... Bosh led his team to the playoffs as the franchise player in Toronto.. So yea, he a franchise player too, no matter how u try slicin it.

Shaq-Bron pnr lmfao I'm arguin wit someone who dont even know his shiit, cmon bro….Shaq HATED the pnr….this is well documented. he needed to be paired with a shooter so that he could clog the paint and operate wit his back to the basket. terrible match wit lebrons game, kobe is farrrrr more suited to play wit a shaq type player. u just puttin together random thoughts to try and prove a non-existant point here fam. shaq was actually an all-star still when he joined cleveland, and we saw how much his game regressed when he played wit lebron. its just a terrible pairing.

the narrative of bron being a team player is overstated, players typically underperform when they play wit lebron, where as kobe always got the best out of his teammates, regularly made bums like luke walton, smush parker, shannon brown, etc. seem like credible nba players en route to titles. made lamar odom look like he wasnt an underachiever for the first time in his career…turned pau into a champion. kobe is truly the teammate u want if ur looking to be the best you. lebron…..he can pass, because he prefers that to shooting. but as a teammate, if lebron doesnt like u, he'll freeze u out ala kevin love……


kobe woulda SLAUGHTERED these warriors….prime kobe woulda sliced them up, like he did when he was 35 years old (achilles game). if steph choked the same way he did against the cavs, kobe woulda had some 50 point games on them, the way they were shook when the tides turned. lebron barely won, and some even argued kyrie deserved finals mvp… "kobe woulda never did that in the finals against gs" riggghhttt, but kyrie irving would…….okay bro.

 

[Sccit]

Why are people voting Bird ahead of Russell?

Bird is the GOAT Celtic

bird > lebron too….this whole list is fucced

 

[Juggalo Fred]

Wade was even better than Lebron at first

now this is just comical at this point.

 

[Sccit]

now this is just comical at this point.

2011 NBA Finals | Basketball-Reference.com

try again

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

Lmao what are you takin about, it's not compatible to Payton-Malone lakers, wade and bosh WERE in or around their prime .. Wade was even better than Lebron at first ..... Bosh led his team to the playoffs as the franchise player in Toronto.. So yea, he a franchise player too, no matter how u try slicin it.

Shaq-Bron pnr lmfao I'm arguin wit someone who dont even know his shiit, cmon bro….Shaq HATED the pnr….this is well documented. he needed to be paired with a shooter so that he could clog the paint and operate wit his back to the basket. terrible match wit lebrons game, kobe is farrrrr more suited to play wit a shaq type player. u just puttin together random thoughts to try and prove a non-existant point here fam. shaq was actually an all-star still when he joined cleveland, and we saw how much his game regressed when he played wit lebron. its just a terrible pairing.

the narrative of bron being a team player is overstated, players typically underperform when they play wit lebron, where as kobe always got the best out of his teammates, regularly made bums like luke walton, smush parker, shannon brown, etc. seem like credible nba players en route to titles. made lamar odom look like he wasnt an underachiever for the first time in his career…turned pau into a champion. kobe is truly the teammate u want if ur looking to be the best you. lebron…..he can pass, because he prefers that to shooting. but as a teammate, if lebron doesnt like u, he'll freeze u out ala kevin love……


kobe woulda SLAUGHTERED these warriors….prime kobe woulda sliced them up, like he did when he was 35 years old (achilles game). if steph choked the same way he did against the cavs, kobe woulda had some 50 point games on them, the way they were shook when the tides turned. lebron barely won, and some even argued kyrie deserved finals mvp… "kobe woulda never did that in the finals against gs" riggghhttt, but kyrie irving would…….okay bro.

What you mean Shaq hated it? Obviously he prefers to dump himself in the post but he could easily play PnR with Bron...and it was effective with Kobe, especially since Kobe was a dangerous shooter

Wade was the better playoff player in 2011 probably would have won Finals MVP if Miami got through but since then it was all LeBron over the next 3 years and Wade/Bosh were pretty inconsistent. But you're right in that it isn't the same as Payton/Malone. I'm just referring to the franchise player thing...and regardless of how good his team was, out of the 4 Finals, he was favoured twice and not favourite twice and sure enough he went 2-2.

I'm not denying Kobe's greatness as a teammate I think he proved that in his late championship run about 6-7 years ago. But LeBron has always made his teammates better, giving me one or two exceptions to the rule does not make it a rule. He made Mo Williams and Daniel Gibson lethal shooters. He enhanced Ilgauskas' game. He's made something out of freaking Iman Shumpert. It's not a one man game, and LeBron's generally selfless nature has allowed teammates to flourish. When he needs to take over, he does.

Kobe never faced a team in the Finals as great as this Warriors team, whether you wanna admit it or not. You say 50 point games when Kobe hasn't even sniffed a 50 point game in the Finals...so there's really no reason to believe that at all.