TSC, What Your Top 10 GOAT List Looking Like?

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Lol@people who name Bret and Michaels all saying "fukk who drew money". Yeah right..if it wasnt for the Hogans, Austins, Rocks, Andres, MachoMans....Bret and Michsels wouldn't exist. Wouldn't have a platform. They damn sure wasn't good enough to lead to build a company off of. Saying theyre better than Savage is like saying Kofi is better than Taker. Absolutely absurd. If drawing money didnt mean shyt...u wouldn't even mention it as a factor.

I feel what you saying bruh, but Bret and HBK are/were some of the best workers of their era/all time. There is a clear contrast in their styles but anyone who is a fan of IN RING work has to have a level of respect for both of them. I'm not gonna say they were more important than a guy like Savage but as far as in ring ability, I can see the argument because when talking elite workers like ALL 3 of them were, it comes down more to personal style preferences


Dude who said Crow Sting was under Nash is trippin 100% tho.

 

[3Rivers]

*Real hard to narrow it down ....in no particular order

Bret
Austin
Savage
HBK
Hogan
Jake
Rock
Flair
Vader
Angle

*list subject to change

 

[R=G]

I feel what you saying bruh, but Bret and HBK are/were some of the best workers of their era/all time. There is a clear contrast in their styles but anyone who is a fan of IN RING work has to have a level of respect for both of them. I'm not gonna say they were more important than a guy like Savage but as far as in ring ability, I can see the argument because when talking elite workers like ALL 3 of them were, it comes down more to personal style preferences


Dude who said Crow Sting was under Nash is trippin 100% tho.

I get your POV because you're not an a agenda based poster. You can actually think and talk logically. But when the other ones are starting off their list by first saying "drawing shouldn't matter because I'm not Vince McMahon" and blah, blah. All of that str8 up bullshyt. That's a ridiculous criteria to have because they bash certain guys week in and week out that get no reaction and get nothing from crowds yet there are some who did get over and all of that shyt but were only over and didn't really draw or carry the company. Michaels was put in a lead dog position in 1996 but he was as big a failure as some claim Miz was. It's double talk like that which is ridiculous and have no ground. Then all of a sudden it's about performance and great matches and shyt like that ..only when it's convenient it seems. That's wack. That's a stupid way of seeing things..trying to have it both ways. If you mattered in pro wrestling, you mattered. Everybody here who was born in the 80s remember the Jake Roberts/Macho Man stuff or the Rick Rude/Jake Roberts stuff....grew up off of it. Everyone here remembers Owen havintg the jealousy program over Bret Hart but was that legendary? No. No one ever talks about that stuff from Bret except the anti-American heel thing, the Austin matches, and the screwjobs. That's his legacy and the way it ended for him. Michaels was so incomplete that he had to come back from his so called career ending injury in 2002 just to add more merit to his career because he hadn't done enough. Good worker but was he carrying? Never. Was he innovative? Never. Was he the best in the industry at any point? Never. He was never better than Bret Hart. He never outworked Benoit in any match they had. His physical prime best was GARBAGE compared to Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero.

Even if we go by the workrate perspective, one could never say Shawn was the best. He did well with the WWE main event style but he wasn't anywhere near as dynamic or as signficant as a Mysterio in America. Pushed as the best...talked about as the best but never was the best. That's a CM Punk thing. That's not good enough and it damn sure isn't top 10 status from my POV.

 

[R=G]

The thread got derailed into a debate about drawing power which is why people started prefacing their lists saying they don't care about that shyt. Believe it or not there's other factors that are more important to some fans then how much money a wrestler made for a company they don't work for.

Sure. When it's convenient. If no one mentioned at first, there would be no reason to even bring it up. Some don't even believe in what they are saying so they needed that little note made clear before writing 10 fukking names. It's moronic.

 

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I get your POV because you're not an a agenda based poster. You can actually think and talk logically. But when the other ones are starting off their list by first saying "drawing shouldn't matter because I'm not Vince McMahon" and blah, blah. All of that str8 up bullshyt. That's a ridiculous criteria to have because they bash certain guys week in and week out that get no reaction and get nothing from crowds yet there are some who did get over and all of that shyt but were only over and didn't really draw or carry the company. Michaels was put in a lead dog position in 1996 but he was as big a failure as some claim Miz was. It's double talk like that which is ridiculous and have no ground. Then all of a sudden it's about performance and great matches and shyt like that ..only when it's convenient it seems. That's wack. That's a stupid way of seeing things..trying to have it both ways. If you mattered in pro wrestling, you mattered. Everybody here who was born in the 80s remember the Jake Roberts/Macho Man stuff or the Rick Rude/Jake Roberts stuff....grew up off of it. Everyone here remembers Owen havintg the jealousy program over Bret Hart but was that legendary? No. No one ever talks about that stuff from Bret except the anti-American heel thing, the Austin matches, and the screwjobs. That's his legacy and the way it ended for him. Michaels was so incomplete that he had to come back from his so called career ending injury in 2002 just to add more merit to his career because he hadn't done enough. Good worker but was he carrying? Never. Was he innovative? Never. Was he the best in the industry at any point? Never. He was never better than Bret Hart. He never outworked Benoit in any match they had. His physical prime best was GARBAGE compared to Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero.

Even if we go by the workrate perspective, one could never say Shawn was the best. He did well with the WWE main event style but he wasn't anywhere near as dynamic or as signficant as a Mysterio in America. Pushed as the best...talked about as the best but never was the best. That's a CM Punk thing. That's not good enough and it damn sure isn't top 10 status from my POV.

Actually the bolded is a very underrated point. HBK is GREAT at the WWE style of performing, but there is much much more to that in Pro Wrestling. HBK never really proved he could work any and every style at a top level. He didn't really have to (or get the opportunity) to wrestle in Japan, Mexico, Canada and the like. That's one of the reasons I can't put him over Bret as a worker, despite HBK probably working the WWE style better than Bret, everything else Bret did better including ring psychology and selling.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

I feel what you saying bruh, but Bret and HBK are/were some of the best workers of their era/all time. There is a clear contrast in their styles but anyone who is a fan of IN RING work has to have a level of respect for both of them. I'm not gonna say they were more important than a guy like Savage but as far as in ring ability, I can see the argument because when talking elite workers like ALL 3 of them were, it comes down more to personal style preferences


Dude who said Crow Sting was under Nash is trippin 100% tho.

Crow Sting was more over than Nash at his peak (wolfpac?), but it isnt by much and crow sting angle wouldnt have existed without the nWo, and after crow sting ended, how long was sting really more over than nash?..it isnt a reach to say nash has had a better career, yet its admittedly arguable (and justifiably so) that sting > nash.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

1. HBK
2. Sting
3. Rob Van Dam
4. Raven
5. Goldberg
6. Scott Hall
7. Flair
8. Austin
9. Kurt Angle
10. Brock Lesnar

ECW Taz could have made my list, I was a major stan back in the day.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

Actually the bolded is a very underrated point. HBK is GREAT at the WWE style of performing, but there is much much more to that in Pro Wrestling. HBK never really proved he could work any and every style at a top level. He didn't really have to (or get the opportunity) to wrestle in Japan, Mexico, Canada and the like. That's one of the reasons I can't put him over Bret as a worker, despite HBK probably working the WWE style better than Bret, everything else Bret did better including ring psychology and selling.

Who gives a fukk about who can work Japanese or Mexican style? I never saw Stone Cold Steve Austin wrestle Lucha or Puro style but who gives a fukk?

And HBGoat did wrestle in Canada actually

 

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Who gives a fukk about who can work Japanese or Mexican style? I never saw Stone Cold Steve Austin wrestle Lucha or Puro style but who gives a fukk?

And HBGoat did wrestle in Canada actually

@R=G , See this guy is perfectly proving my point. The people who put HBK on top as the GOAT in-ring performer are not actally Pro Wrestling fans. They are really just WWE fans.


Which is fine, but just be honest about it. Don't tell me you like Pro Wrestling if all you know and care for is one corner of it

 

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Crow Sting was more over than Nash at his peak (wolfpac?), but it isnt by much and crow sting angle wouldnt have existed without the nWo, and after crow sting ended, how long was sting really more over than nash?..it isnt a reach to say nash has had a better career, yet its admittedly arguable (and justifiably so) that sting > nash.

Dude you are talking booking right now. Nash at NO point in time was bigger than Sting.

Yes the NWO was the biggest angle in WCW (arguably wrestling) history, but no ONE person gets credit for that, it was a team effort. But the NWO angle itself was built around Sting as much as anyone else not named Hogan. Who was the main hero against thw NWO heels? Sting

Nash was very over and is much more charismatic than Steve Borden is as a person, but people were not paying to see him work. Even look at it now, people are BEGGING the WWE to get Sting, even in his current Larry Holmes form, at WrestleMania at least one time. Are people clamoring for Nash anywhere?

And for the record, Sting will be over in ANY area he goes to, he is a legit living legend in this business

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

@R=G , See this guy is perfectly proving my point. The people who put HBK on top as the GOAT in-ring performer are not actally Pro Wrestling fans. They are really just WWE fans.


Which is fine, but just be honest about it. Don't tell me you like Pro Wrestling if all you know and care for is one corner of it

Half my list is guys from WCW and ECW, so I don't think I'm a "WWE fan". I just think it's ridiculous to denigrate the ability of Shawn Michaels, an American wrestler, for not working in Japan or Mexico. Mostly guys (Benoit, Jericho, etc etc etc) worked in Japan and Mexico because they couldn't get hired by WWF or WCW.

 

[R=G]

@R=G , See this guy is perfectly proving my point. The people who put HBK on top as the GOAT in-ring performer are not actally Pro Wrestling fans. They are really just WWE fans.


Which is fine, but just be honest about it. Don't tell me you like Pro Wrestling if all you know and care for is one corner of it

It is what it is. I guess some dudes don't like to like to check Japanese wrrestling or how guys like Bryan got his reputation before he ever got to the big stage. They like one specific type but the thing is..when all you know is one variation, don't try to act like an expert on anything. A guy like William Regal put on a 5 Star match with Benoit in 2000 at that Pillman tribute show but does anyone know about that? Nah. They just want to keep talking about that played out HIAC match with Taker and Michaels that was basically a squash match where Kane stole the shine in the end. Silly semantics.

 

[PYRRHUS 88]

Played out HIAC match when it was the first one ever. That makes sense.

 

[R=G]

Dude you are talking booking right now. Nash at NO point in time was bigger than Sting.

Yes the NWO was the biggest angle in WCW (arguably wrestling) history, but no ONE person gets credit for that, it was a team effort. But the NWO angle itself was built around Sting as much as anyone else not named Hogan. Who was the main hero against thw NWO heels? Sting

Nash was very over and is much more charismatic than Steve Borden is as a person, but people were not paying to see him work. Even look at it now, people are BEGGING the WWE to get Sting, even in his current Larry Holmes form, at WrestleMania at least one time. Are people clamoring for Nash anywhere?

And for the record, Sting will be over in ANY area he goes to, he is a legit living legend in this business

When did the fans EVER choose Nash over Sting? They got happy with Nash against Goldberg at Starrcade but that was it. He was never someone people were going nuts for or that NYGGA except for a one month build. The ENTIRE NwO angle was at first about Hogan turning heel under the premise that the WWF was invading and taking over...Hall got hot with the Survey questions and was the "cool" member as usual..Nash was doing comedy promos and burials on the mic but the fans stuck with Sting the whole way and even when they did those Surveys when the crowd was pro NwO, when Sting appeared, they turned the NwO like it wasn't shyt. LOL.

 

[Nintendough]

@R=G , See this guy is perfectly proving my point. The people who put HBK on top as the GOAT in-ring performer are not actally Pro Wrestling fans. They are really just WWE fans.


Which is fine, but just be honest about it. Don't tell me you like Pro Wrestling if all you know and care for is one corner of it

Good grief could you at least get a room and suck his dikk in private, thanks. You cornball Rock fans are so damn butt hurt that people love HBK. The man could wrestle any style, he just has a natural physical talent.


Now anybody that doesn't agree with you isn't a wrestling fan, but a "WWE fan". Most pathetic fan base in the IWC today.