Undisputed 140 King: Terence "Bud" Crawford vs. Julius Indongo (ESPN, Aug 19)

[Perfectson]

If we are ranking official rankings I have Thurman ahead. But if we are going off honesty and let fights play out I think Spence beats Craw and Thurman, and Craw beats Thurman.

Thurman prefers to box from the outside and I think Craw boxes better and can go either hand. Also think Craw's power will carry fine up to 147 and believe the detractors who question Craw's chin will be proven wrong.

I have faith in Thurman, but also not going to be ignorant to is weaknesses. Also like Spence and Crawford, so happy stan n the fact that Spence, Crawford, and Thurman will run 147 and are better than others favorite fighters at that weight class.

i don't wanna see Errol Spence vs Crawford tbh, hope both of them have great careers and never have to fight one another.

 

[surv2syn]

Crawford aint moved up in weight, dominated, & KOd an A fighter ranked #3 P4P like Ward has.

No way should Crawford be considered #1 period, that's absurd to me.

again, depends on what your criteria is. Ward didnt dominate Kovalev the first time. He needed two times to do it. That is a great accomplishment but at the same time you cant get credit for beating the same fighter over and over. You saying that is absurd of the whole point of this being subjective. You have to take into account Ward's inactivity. He has basically only fought once a year on average. The two wins over Kovalev is the strength we are basing his P4P status on.

You cant use another subjective rating like saying Kovalev was top 3 to automatically justify another ones rating. If that is the case then whoever beats Crawford, Ward, or Thurman/Spence, etc...by that logic automatically leapfrogs to the front of the line. Come on breh. No one knows who Sullivan Barrera and Alexander Brand are.

Crawford has been collecting belts for a while now. At 135 and 140. So not sure what you are talking about as far as weight when Crawford came from 135 and has been on task as far as cleaning out 140. No one left but Mikey and he just got there so Crawford has wiped out what was there and left the rest for him. Bob aint stupid....he has a good plan going.

There is a lot of different criteria. Maybe we at the Coli should create our own. Just by the logic you are going on, Jeff Horn should be top 10 P4P. Or Canelo should be # 1 if he dominates GGG because ESPN ranks GGG # 1. I see what you are doing there.

They dont even have Stevenson in the top 10 but by your logic, if Stevenson dominates Ward he'd be #1.

 

[Big Boss]

Crawford aint moved up in weight, dominated, & KOd an A fighter ranked #3 P4P like Ward has.

No way should Crawford be considered #1 period, that's absurd to me.

P4P should be resume first

 

[Master Teacher]

I think most people's definition today differs from when I was growing up. P4P then meant if all fighters were the same weight, the top fighter would beat all of the rest. Now its more like what a fighter has accomplished. Teddy's voting is from the old school so I have no problem with it because Loma is the best most complete fighter out there I think. If he were to move up however, he wont beat Crawford. Just like I think Crawford would have a problem with Spence.

in my book, its either Crawford or Ward that is number 1. Ward has better opposition but Crawford has been more dominant. I dont have a problem with either one being the top guy. Then I am going with Loma and Spence. Canelo isnt that high on my list, neither is Mikey. I still like Kovalev to be rated high since he has only lost to Ward who is #2 at the very least. GGG is in the top 10 but I expect Canelo to beat him which will boost Canelo on my list.

Loma can't beat salido but you think his fighting style can transfer to different weights lmao

Loma doesn belong on p4p list period simply because he isn't on that level just like chocalito wasnt

 

[surv2syn]

Come on man. How is Crawford #2 P4P, but Canelo is #4, Loma #6, and Mikey #7 when Crawford has a worse resume than all of them?

Yall hyping the hell outta him

Swifts resume, especially before losing to Thurman, was 2x as good as Crawford's is today....but yall would've 'd @ChocolateGiddyUp straight off the board if he ever said Swift was #2 P4P, but Crawford getting that type of praise after beating someone who cant throw a straight punch

dont make me come back out full force on your ass. dont do it to yourself breh. if you are going off of resume then Manny still best P4P. you gotta use some logic here. its not just the opposition but how you look against them. Ward aint done shyt since Dawson and when was that? in '11? Your logic is flawed because you putting guys past him when they been outta the damn ring for 2 years while he been grindin.

Swift had BIGGER names but that doesnt mean his resume is twice as good. Swift is a big name so he did have the luxury of fighting a lot of fighters who were at the end of their careers. After Khan....Paulie, Zab, Matthysse, Guerrero, Vargas, Salka, Morales, non of these guys went on to win any meaningful fights. Only Peterson has... and their fight was controversial.

and dont try and bring @ChocolateGiddyUp in this.....see what you did there too lil nikka

Swift resume was solid, but I wouldnt say it was twice as good or even better than Crawford when you look at it closely. Just bigger (albeit mostly washed) names. If you go back on my posts though you will see that I had Swift rated in my P4P lists. I was the one telling people he was better than Matthyssee when all those memes were flying around. Matthyssee was his best win, but how much better is Matthyssee than Indongo? Burns? Postol ? Hate to say it but Matthysse really made his meal off of that Peterson fight. He lost every other meaningful fight he has ever had except his war with Prov which pretty much ruined him. See, thats flawed logic to me. I dont wanna hear that opposition talk when you getting your ass beat. A good resume should also pertain to how you look and if you win or lose, not just the name on the paper.

As I said, I have no problem with someone saying Ward is P4P best, hell, I may even agree. Dont act like Crawford is some hype job though. Thats bullshyt and you know it. Since he beat Prescott I told you nikkas he was gonna be a star and there wasnt gonna be nobody fukkin with him and so far I have been correct. Its gonna take Spence, Thurman, or Porter or someone of that level at 147 to take him down.

I hope all the debate is over as well about Broner beating Crawford.

 

[surv2syn]

Loma can't beat salido but you think his fighting style can transfer to different weights lmao

Loma doesn belong on p4p list period simply because he isn't on that level just like chocalito wasnt

not fighting style alone. skill. he and rigo are two of the most skilled out there. if they were heavyweights they would be ruling. likewise with Ward, Crawford, Spence, etc....

I didnt say I had Loma # one , I just said I could understand where Teddy is coming from based on the criteria I think he is using. I dont have Loma in my top 3, but I'd have to put him at 4 on my personal list likely.

the Salido fight was too early against a crafty and dirty veteran. Salido is a really good fighter also. He beat the shyt outta Guerrero, I dont give a fukk about that drug test.

fact is, from weight to weight, no one is outboxing Loma. Not Crawford, not Ward, or anyone else. that doesnt make him #1 yet, but for his amount of fights and his dominance....I can see where he would be ranked highly. same thing goes for choc to a degree.

 

[surv2syn]

P4P should be resume first

resume....and what breh? if you are going by resume alone then the #1 fighter P4P is Canelo, hands down. shouldnt be any further discussion. you should include other factors such as activity. Ward has only fought 2 champions in almost 7 years. P4P guys none the less but one he fought twice. He deserves to be #1 but it aint like this is clear cut. IF Canelo beats GGG decisively, people will say he is #1 and I cant really put up much of an argument against it although I may feel different. I dont rate GGG as high as some others. He is good but not in my top 5.

 

[Newzz]

again, depends on what your criteria is. Ward didnt dominate Kovalev the first time. He needed two times to do it. That is a great accomplishment but at the same time you cant get credit for beating the same fighter over and over. You saying that is absurd of the whole point of this being subjective. You have to take into account Ward's inactivity. He has basically only fought once a year on average. The two wins over Kovalev is the strength we are basing his P4P status on.

You cant use another subjective rating like saying Kovalev was top 3 to automatically justify another ones rating. If that is the case then whoever beats Crawford, Ward, or Thurman/Spence, etc...by that logic automatically leapfrogs to the front of the line. Come on breh. No one knows who Sullivan Barrera and Alexander Brand are.

Crawford has been collecting belts for a while now. At 135 and 140. So not sure what you are talking about as far as weight when Crawford came from 135 and has been on task as far as cleaning out 140. No one left but Mikey and he just got there so Crawford has wiped out what was there and left the rest for him. Bob aint stupid....he has a good plan going.

There is a lot of different criteria. Maybe we at the Coli should create our own. Just by the logic you are going on, Jeff Horn should be top 10 P4P. Or Canelo should be # 1 if he dominates GGG because ESPN ranks GGG # 1. I see what you are doing there.

They dont even have Stevenson in the top 10 but by your logic, if Stevenson dominates Ward he'd be #1.

It doesnt depend on any criteria. There's no argument for Crawford being #1 over Andre Ward...period.:forreal:


I see what you're trying to do here, but no....SOG is #1 and its not even debatable


Yall gonna need more than Viktor Postol & Julius Indongo to take SOG's spot:soggangumad:


#SOGGang

 

[Master Teacher]

not fighting style alone. skill. he and rigo are two of the most skilled out there. if they were heavyweights they would be ruling. likewise with Ward, Crawford, Spence, etc....

I didnt say I had Loma # one , I just said I could understand where Teddy is coming from based on the criteria I think he is using. I dont have Loma in my top 3, but I'd have to put him at 4 on my personal list likely.

the Salido fight was too early against a crafty and dirty veteran. Salido is a really good fighter also. He beat the shyt outta Guerrero, I dont give a fukk about that drug test.

fact is, from weight to weight, no one is outboxing Loma. Not Crawford, not Ward, or anyone else. that doesnt make him #1 yet, but for his amount of fights and his dominance....I can see where he would be ranked highly. same thing goes for choc to a degree.

Too early lmao
Loma turned pro in his prime he not getting any better

How is loma the most skilled what you basing this on

Rigo regular fights guys much heavier than him his skill is proven

Loma has to prove he has that skill he hasnt fought another pressure fighter since salido he is not p4p

In order to be p4p your style has to be adaptable to any type of opponent
Loma cant do his style at 140 let alone heavyweight
He will get hurt against a guy who can walk through his punches he has always been the bigger fighter
Just like chocalito style would not work on a bigger opponent

 

[surv2syn]

P4P should be resume first

thats YOUR criteria. we should make a Coli criteria. like I still think NBA MVP should be the most impactful player or the player who has established himself as clear best. if you are going by resume, then a lot of guys should be MVP over others. like Wade's best season easily tops Rose's. Kobe and Kidd got jerked too. P4P is mythical but we should at least try and base it on as many parameters as we can.

we have this argument here a lot about controversial decisions. like when guys tend to think someone is winning a fight just because they are coming forward or throwing a lot of punches.

 

[Newzz]

dont make me come back out full force on your ass. dont do it to yourself breh. if you are going off of resume then Manny still best P4P. you gotta use some logic here. its not just the opposition but how you look against them. Ward aint done shyt since Dawson and when was that? in '11? Your logic is flawed because you putting guys past him when they been outta the damn ring for 2 years while he been grindin.

Swift had BIGGER names but that doesnt mean his resume is twice as good. Swift is a big name so he did have the luxury of fighting a lot of fighters who were at the end of their careers. After Khan....Paulie, Zab, Matthysse, Guerrero, Vargas, Salka, Morales, non of these guys went on to win any meaningful fights. Only Peterson has... and their fight was controversial.

and dont try and bring @ChocolateGiddyUp in this.....see what you did there too lil nikka

Swift resume was solid, but I wouldnt say it was twice as good or even better than Crawford when you look at it closely. Just bigger (albeit mostly washed) names. If you go back on my posts though you will see that I had Swift rated in my P4P lists. I was the one telling people he was better than Matthyssee when all those memes were flying around. Matthyssee was his best win, but how much better is Matthyssee than Indongo? Burns? Postol ? Hate to say it but Matthysse really made his meal off of that Peterson fight. He lost every other meaningful fight he has ever had except his war with Prov which pretty much ruined him. See, thats flawed logic to me. I dont wanna hear that opposition talk when you getting your ass beat. A good resume should also pertain to how you look and if you win or lose, not just the name on the paper.

As I said, I have no problem with someone saying Ward is P4P best, hell, I may even agree. Dont act like Crawford is some hype job though. Thats bullshyt and you know it. Since he beat Prescott I told you nikkas he was gonna be a star and there wasnt gonna be nobody fukkin with him and so far I have been correct. Its gonna take Spence, Thurman, or Porter or someone of that level at 147 to take him down.

I hope all the debate is over as well about Broner beating Crawford.

Aint nobody trying to hear this bs.


SOG is #1....period


Talking about you "may agree" he's #1....aint no may agrees

He is point blank:soggangumad:

 

[surv2syn]

It doesnt depend on any criteria. There's no argument for Crawford being #1 over Andre Ward...period.:forreal:


I see what you're trying to do here, but no....SOG is #1 and its not even debatable


Yall gonna need more than Viktor Postol & Julius Indongo to take SOG's spot:soggangumad:


#SOGGang

you didnt think he would be on the nikka heels so you holdin on. I feel you. but its inevitable, Crawfords time is here.

 

[surv2syn]

Aint nobody trying to hear this bs.


SOG is #1....period


Talking about you "may agree" he's #1....aint no may agrees

He is point blank:soggangumad:

nikka need to fight more than 1/2 a time a year. he aint Floyd

now need to find someone else now that he cant keep beating up on Kovalev.

you nikkas disservicing yourselves by thinkin a nikka can just sit on top of the ratings while other nikkas is grindin and he just gone stay there.

 

[surv2syn]

Too early lmao
Loma turned pro in his prime he not getting any better

How is loma the most skilled what you basing this on

Rigo regular fights guys much heavier than him his skill is proven

Loma has to prove he has that skill he hasnt fought another pressure fighter since salido he is not p4p

In order to be p4p your style has to be adaptable to any type of opponent
Loma cant do his style at 140 let alone heavyweight
He will get hurt against a guy who can walk through his punches he has always been the bigger fighter
Just like chocalito style would not work on a bigger opponent

didnt mean it like that breh. I mean that type of opponent was the wrong time for him. him and his camp were not ready to face a fighter like Salido, who is a really tough guy to fight. like I said, he beat Ghost ass in his prime. Loma's game plan wasnt ready for this guy. Like you think Salido is better? Loma is most skilled boxer, that is what I said. what you are saying is more debatable. You are saying he has to prove but since Salido he hasnt lost so its still an unknown. He boxing skill is not even a debatable quantity.

 

[Newzz]

resume....and what breh? if you are going by resume alone then the #1 fighter P4P is Canelo, hands down. shouldnt be any further discussion. you should include other factors such as activity. Ward has only fought 2 champions in almost 7 years. P4P guys none the less but one he fought twice. He deserves to be #1 but it aint like this is clear cut. IF Canelo beats GGG decisively, people will say he is #1 and I cant really put up much of an argument against it although I may feel different. I dont rate GGG as high as some others. He is good but not in my top 5.

He beat a prime Arthur Abraham (who was a favorite to win the tourney), prime Froch, prime Dawson, prime Barrera, & prime Kovalev....twice. 3 of those fights were against guys ranked on the P4P list.:soggangumad:


His resume from 2010 until today alone separates him far away from Crawford....and you talking about Ward isnt the clear cut #1 Boxer today & acting as if there is a debate to be had about Ward or Crawford?


Because of wins over Postol & Indongo?