Venezuela feels the Bern...Hunger,blackouts,Rationing

[Jazzy Jay]

You call communism "centrally planned"

No, it means that the means of production are publicly owned, through democratic control. That means that the economic control of a country is fundamentally decentralized down to the individual person.

You call a social democracy "a socialist state"

No it is a political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a capitalist economy, and a policy regime involving collective bargaining arrangements, a commitment to representative democracy, measures for income redistribution, regulation of the economy in the general interest and welfare state provisions.

That doesn't sound very socialist to me

We really are splitting hairs. I was making my post to explain to OP how Venezuela has no relation to Sanders politically.
Also, Communism doesn't require democracy, just that all property is publicly owned. I made the point to show a main feature of all self-proclaimed communist states is that they have been centrally planned.

I still stand that a social democracy falls within the scope of being a socialist state. For instance, there are no purely capitalist states but they still identify as being capitalist.

Further, Socialism is "a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
A social democracy still embraces capitalism, but it is regulated by the community as a whole.

The reason nations don't publicly declare their models to be socialist is because all the former socialist nations were affiliated with the Soviet Union. Thus, social democracy is a nuanced way to embrace socialism, but still highlight the democratic elements.

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

You are guilty of conflating socialism and communism. A centrally planned economy is communism. A socialist state will still operate under capitalist economics,.

Um no youre guilty of thinking communists are the only central planners.. while socialism is not equivalent to central planning , the very concept of socialism involves the replacement of capital markets with some form of economic planning in order to achieve ex ante coordination of the economy. The goal of such an economic system would be to achieve conscious control over the economy by the population, specifically, so that the use of the surplus production is directed towards the common good.

how else can you achieve the "to all according to their need" ethos without controlling production and if you are going to control something you must plan...right?

but capitalism is supposed to serve the people instead of the top 1%.

Umm NO thats crony capitalism AKA plutocracy..capitalism does make it easier for those with more capital to earn more but its still better than what we had before

The Nordic model is exactly what Bernie espouses, free market capitalism with a comprehensive welfare state and collective bargaining. He is actually less radical than the Nordic model and is closer to a Germany.

Odds are The US is more likely to end up like Venezuela than Sweden

Germany mandates that half of a board of directors for a company be elected by the workers. Germany has high taxes, universal health care, universal college education, great infrastructure and government control of the banks. This is a socialist model. The corporate structure of having workers share control is beneficial because it promotes strategic buy-in to the mission and goals of the company. It also allows competitive advantage because profit can be wrapped back into the company rather than going to shareholders

Half the board does not equal communal control and most of the profits the corporation makes still belong to the corporation..it sounds like a great system in theory but it is so vulnerable to cronyism and corruption which are common human failings

Thats why it can work best in homogeneous societies with an established culture because the tribalism ,cronyism and corruption can be kept to a minimum

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

Welcome back

Nah I'm still here being intellectually oppressed by liberal elites and now we even have bonafide communists running around here

Ive met them LOL....unbelievable some are so far to the left they make dead end look like rand paul

 

[BaggerofTea]

We really are splitting hairs. I was making my post to explain to OP how Venezuela has no relation to Sanders politically.

We will agree here

Also, Communism doesn't require democracy, just that all property is publicly owned. I made the point to show a main feature of all self-proclaimed communist states is that they have been centrally planned.

For property to be publicly owned, democracy is inherent in a communist or socialist system....

A social democracy still embraces capitalism, but it is regulated by the community as a whole.

The reason nations don't publicly declare their models to be socialist is because all the former socialist nations were affiliated with the Soviet Union. Thus, social democracy is a nuanced way to embrace socialism, but still highlight the democratic elements.

No, a social democracy is regulated by the state. You can have republic social democracies like how the US was for a long period of time or authoritarian social democracies i.e Soviets and China.

 

[BaggerofTea]

Ive met them LOL....unbelievable some are so far to the left they make dead end look like rand paul

Constrast leftists with anarcho-capitalists brehs

 

[CHL]

Lol at three different definitions being used in one conversation.

 

[newworldafro]

Thread title is cray.

 

[wire28]

LOL..the feel the bern was a tongue in cheek addition but after watching this video i see how apt it actually was

 

[CHL]

 

[ⒶⓁⒾⒶⓈ]

 

[GzUp]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/28/world/americas/venezuela-economic-government-collapse.html?_r=1

Venezuela Drifts Into New Territory: Hunger, Blackouts and Government Shutdown


This is what you bernie fans were fighting for ..mismanagement and starvation

 

[the cac mamba]

Why do people always bring Bernie up when socialism is discussed? You would think that in a place called Higher Learning that he would be identified as a Social Democrat by now.

you would also think that america doesnt offer unemployment, medicare, medicaid, social security, etc

 

[the cac mamba]

another thing i see in bernie is simply a re-assessment of americas priorities

this is a dude who says, well shyt. we have enough money to bomb all these brown countries and bail out bankers. maybe we could have enough to take care of people and pay kids tuitions at state schools

and it gets laughed off on here, like the former positively affects us

 

[88m3]

 

[wire28]

I like this new guy