Was Pau Gasol even a top 15 player in 2009 and 2010?

[ISO]

Now you're just making shyt up. Tim Duncan and Dirk was still in the league back then. Was nobody calling Pau the best big in the league over them.

And if media sukking someone off is good evidence for you, then you must agree with the media back then that Kobe was the best player in the league and the closest to Jordan since that was definitely said in almost every Lakers telecast?

You fukking goof ball Tim Duncan was declining and the Spurs were getting bounced in the first round in this era. Some reputable people held that opinion I already posted articles supporting that notion. Some people felt that way and yes during those Lakers games I clearly remember the ABC telecast slobbing Gasol.

In that time I wasn't mad at anybody that thought Kobe was the best in the league. LeBron was better in my opinion but Kobe was elite himself and had "pedigree" and experience over him and yes he is the closest thing to Jordan stylistically before Kawhi came along.

 

[Swagnificent]

You fukking goof ball Tim Duncan was declining and the Spurs were getting bounced in the first round in this era. Some reputable people held that opinion I already posted articles supporting that notion. Some people felt that way and yes during those Lakers games I clearly remember the ABC telecast slobbing Gasol.

In that time I wasn't mad at anybody that thought Kobe was the best in the league. LeBron was better in my opinion but Kobe was elite himself and had "pedigree" and experience over him and yes he is the closest thing to Jordan stylistically before Kawhi came along.

Stop lying.

Was nobody calling Pau better than Duncan back then or ever.

And why you forgetting Dirk? Did he not win MVP in 2007?

Pau got hype playing with Kobe but was nobody saying he was the best big.

 

[ISO]

Revisionist history won't work this time. Most of us Lakers fans remember watching that era vividly.

There was a reason everyone called pau SOFT. If he was this great defender you're making him out to be, then why did that tag of being SOFT follow him around for so long?

And before you bring up race, nobody ever called his brother Marc "soft".

Bosh was called soft his entire career too shyt the running joke on here its that he's

All Spanish players are viewed as "soft" yes even Marc is seen as passive and soft at times. Gasol, Jose Calderon all of 'em are considered soft. It's a fukking Euro player stereotype.

Amar'e Stoudemire was arguably the worst big man defender nobody called him soft. Why? Because he could trash talk and scrap and would dunk on your head. Boozer was one of the worst defensive bigs nobody called him soft. Why? Because Boozer was fukking swole.

That shyt wasn't because of defense but because he plays that passive European style of basketball and isn't a banger but a finesse skill big and he's a "nice guy". It isn't because he was some shyt defender. He protected the rim this is indisputable he put up solid block numbers his entire career and even past his prime ranked among the best at FG% at the rim and he drew charges (his flopping is another reason he was called soft). Even before the Lakers he was in the middle for good defenses. In the latter part of his Lakers tenure he had declined defensively on chaotic teams, but in the title years he slid to the 5 and was y'all rim protector with Odom at the 4, stop capping.

Also, y'all stay ignoring his critical defense against KG and Dwight Howard in the Finals. I never made Gasol to be a great defender he was solid at certain aspects and better on that end than the majority of these one way bigs being mentioned.

Pau Gasol defending Dwight Howard was expected to be a huge advantage for the bigger, stronger Howard, but Gasol's defense of Howard was masterful. The Lakers provided Gasol with significant help, and their defensive scheme was hugely successful in frustrating Howard, but Gasol deserves a lot of credit for his defense on Howard. According to ESPN DB, Dwight Howard was held to 4-10 shooting when guarded one-on-one by Gasol (Gasol, meanwhile, was 9-19 when guarded one-on-one by Howard). In Game 5, Gasol was the primary defender on Howard for in 38 possessions – in those 38 possessions, Howard didn't make a single field goal, and went to the line only once, where he went 1-2, for a grand total of one points on 38 possessions with Gasol as his primary defender.

 

[Gravity]

You post the "facts" to hate on Kobe if it was really about trying to point out his help, you'd actually address the performances by his teammates. Instead you "made mistakes" to try to illustrate how "badly" Kobe performed, passively implying his teammates must have been crucial to them winning.

Kobe clearly carried the Lakers to 2 championships. I believe winning (and looking for an excuse to discredit Kobe) has in hindsight overrated Pau. Pau wasn't some 1b to Kobe's 1a. Pau is a very good player, and was important to the team but at the time the narrative was he was soft. The Lakers did have a solid core for this run. If anything I think Odom, Ariza, Metta and even Fisher are underrated in their roles.

Back on original topic I'd say Pau was probably top 20. I don't know why we're acting like that's bad; that still makes him the best player on at least 1/3 of the teams in the league. To discredit Kobe I think people try to act like Pau was a 1b championship caliber star, and that's just not accurate.

This is what you should've said from the start instead of deflecting playing semantics like a bytch.

Kobe didn't carry those teams. That's why I cite those low-lights or FACTS to put this shyt in proper perspective. We can certainly talk about how his teammates performed in that back to back run and how kobe gunned his teammates out to get those 2 fmvps. In the 09 finals kobe took more than twice as many shots as the laker with the 2nd most fga. Kobe took 135 shots to gasol's 60 despite gasol shooting 60% while kobe only shot 43%. In the '10 finals kobe took 73 more shots than gasol despite gasol again being much more efficient(gasol 48% kobe 40.5%). The only thing kobe carried was the shot attempt load and that's because he was an inherent gunner, not because the team needed it. Gunning was just part of Kobe's game and he couldn't help it. Gasol could've easily been a 1b if he was playing with a less selfish teammate.

This is why I give the most props for that post-Shaq back to back run to phil and the management because they were able to construct a team around kobe despite him being a very flawed #1 that had to have the right kind of team around him to contend.

 

[ISO]

Stop lying.

Was nobody calling Pau better than Duncan back then or ever.

And why you forgetting Dirk? Did he not win MVP in 2007?

Pau got hype playing with Kobe but was nobody saying he was the best big.

I didn't say he was the fukking best although some people were saying that shyt

How the fukk am I lying when I posted fukking proof

I'm about done with you nikkas

 

[10bandz]

Kobe didn’t carry those teams?

 

[ISO]

dikkhead are you telling me Chris Bosh, taking a bad team to the playoffs is somehow worse than Pau Gasol being a second option to a top 2 player in the league with a good squad? “bUt hE pUT uP goOD nUmBeRs oN a bAD tEaM” so did Lebron, Kobe, MJ and every fukking body who once played on a bad/medicore team. What the mother fukk was Lebron, who’s dikk you suck every day, doing on those wack ass Cavs teams he had to drag to the fukking playoffs every year to the point he got tired and went to Miami to play with Dwade and Bosh?huh you knick dikksucking fakkit?

And yes, James Harden is the best SG mostly based off Numbers, just like Bosh has a case for best PF Based off stats you shythead. Harden ain’t never won shyt but got a fukking MVP and made a case for the best player in the league last year

Yes, One, or two publications you posted() had Pau as a top 10 player. Whoopty fukking do you fakkit ass clown.

Everything I posted was his actual stats.

This nikka might be retarded y'all

Get your fukking timeline straight if you gonna have a discussion. The fukking thread is about 2009 and 2010 yet you talking about a Chris Bosh first round exit from 2007. What the fukk are you even going on about?

Why tf do you continue to bring up LeBron? It's not just stats with him his impact is huge. LeBron was carrying his team they were winning 60 games and making NBA Finals. Where the fukk is the correlation?

Harden doesn't just have numbers dikk head he has massive impact and could carry a mediocre team. Bosh could not do that you silly nikka he put up good numbers on a 40 win team. I told you I considered Gasol the better player because of his passing and defense which makes him a more impactful player to a team. That's my fukking case and what I believe and what many felt at the time, if you want to say Chris Bosh was the best PF based off stats like a silly nikka than so be it.

Nikka it's SLAM Magazine just not any publication, how many more articles do I need to cite since 3 isn't enough, he was ALL-fukkING NBA in those years. Are you dumb? You Kobe dikk suckers are a special breed.

 

[Swagnificent]

All Spanish players are viewed as "soft" yes even Marc is seen as passive and soft at times.

Thank you for exposing yourself with this comment. You're definitely some lil white kid that didn't watch basketball back then.

Nobody and I repeat NOBODY ever called Marc Gasol soft. He was like the Steven Adams of that era. Didn't nobody mess with him. In fact some used to wonder how he and Pau could be brothers considering how gully Marc was and how soft Pau was.

You exposed yourself. Now stop with the lies and revisionist history.

 

[bxrfan]

But we're specifically talking in the 2-5 years before The Decision. Bo was a good player but a poor teammate and poor leader, with nothing to hang his hat on in terms of achievements...

Before he got to Memphis, Randolph was a lesser version of Boogie Cousins. He certainly was never as good as Boogie but skillset and impact was similar....him and Pau didn't play for the same Memphis team at the same time, saying Bo was better in Memphis than Pau is true but Bo also had a lot more to work with than Pau did...

Overall Bo and Pau are similar caliber players too....

I appreciate that you're one of the few to acknowledge that there's a debate to be had between Zach and Pau career-wise. If we're talking about 09-10 like this thread specified you're absolutely right. Z-Bo wasn't seen as much and certainly not better than Pau.

But I've been noticing the Z-Bo disrespect in this thread and I don't like it. Folks putting him in with the likes of David Lee, Carlos Boozer and David West. He's better than that. They also talking like there's this huge gap between him and guys like Pau and Bosh when there really isn't

Just looking at his numbers shows a level of consistency closer to KG and Duncan than Pau and Bosh. Nine years averaging a double-double (including five years of 20 and 10) compared to only five for Pau and three for Bosh. As you pointed out however Zach accumulated a lot of those years on losing Trail Blazers squads. Bosh and Pau had higher scoring averages in Memphis and Toronto but never went far either, so we can't just look at stats to debate this

Let's move on to accolades. Admittedly Pau and Bosh have Randolph beat on this one, but context is important here. Pau and Bosh happened to be on two of the most high profiled squads ever. When it came to All-Star awards playing in the East also helped Bosh and Pau (when he picked up a few more with the Bulls) because competition at the forward/center spot wasn't as great. Zach could have up to five All-Star selections but since Memphis ain't a big market they would only select one player to represent the Grizzlies. If you look at it as a whole his production in Memphis was easily comparable to the years Pau had on the Lakers and Bosh on the Heat, but since they played for championship squads (alongside players way better than them) their path to recognition was easier.

Finally we get to their impact on winning, specifically as the main guy. Bosh and Pau never got out the first round (with Pau not winning a single game), whereas Zach led his squad all the way to the WCF. He also beat a 60-win Spurs team as an eighth seed while being the #1 option and without his second best player (yes Rudy Gay was seen that way in 2011). To be fair Randolph had a lot more to work with than Bosh and Pau and those later Grizzlies squads were more of a collective effort... but he still should get credit as being the main leader to get his team that far. Marc only took over the team in 2015; prior to that he was a defensive anchor when Gay was there and a secondary option along with Conley when Gay left. In an ironic twist, the guy once considered a black hole and horrible teammate had become a greater leader than Pau and Bosh ever were

All three weren't the best defenders in the world, though Pau and Bosh were servicable on the Lakers and Heat. Marc helped masked Zach's deficiencies in that area a whole lot admittedly. Pau was the best passer of the bunch but Bosh and Zach (in his later years) knew how to give it up and find the open man too

I have no problem with anyone putting Pau and Bosh over Z-Bo all time and saying they're better. What I'm trying to say is that there's a debate to be had there when looking at their overall careers with the proper context. Pau and Bosh were able to play a supporting role on championship squads that helped significantly improve their standing in the eyes of many. If Z-Bo was able to play on a high profile squad and rack up a few more All Star selections than the gap wouldn't be seen as wide at all

 

[Swagnificent]

This is what you should've said from the start instead of deflecting playing semantics like a bytch.

Kobe didn't carry those teams. That's why I cite those low-lights or FACTS to put this shyt in proper perspective. We can certainly talk about how his teammates performed in that back to back run and how kobe gunned his teammates out to get those 2 fmvps. In the 09 finals kobe took more than twice as many shots as the laker with the 2nd most fga. Kobe took 135 shots to gasol's 60 despite gasol shooting 60% while kobe only shot 43%. In the '10 finals kobe took 73 more shots than gasol despite gasol again being much more efficient(gasol 48% kobe 40.5%). The only thing kobe carried was the shot attempt load and that's because he was an inherent gunner, not because the team needed it. Gunning was just part of Kobe's game and he couldn't help it. Gasol could've easily been a 1b if he was playing with a less selfish teammate.

This is why I give the most props for that post-Shaq back to back run to phil and the management because they were able to construct a team around kobe despite him being a very flawed #1 that had to have the right kind of team around him to contend.

Hey white boy. Stick to talking hockey or baseball.

Basketball ain't meant for your kind.

 

[A Tribe Called Quest ™]

Thank you for exposing yourself with this comment. You're definitely some lil white kid that didn't watch basketball back then.

Nobody and I repeat NOBODY ever called Marc Gasol soft. He was like the Steven Adams of that era. Didn't nobody mess with him. In fact some used to wonder how he and Pau could be brothers considering how gully Marc was and how soft Pau was.

You exposed yourself. Now stop with the lies and revisionist history.

This is a whole lie, I’m a Grizzlies fan and we called Marc soft and passive multiple times .. Son you have know what idea what your talking about

 

[Gravity]

Hey white boy. Stick to talking hockey or baseball.

Basketball ain't meant for your kind.

Hey cocksucker. Choke.

 

[ISO]

Thank you for exposing yourself with this comment. You're definitely some lil white kid that didn't watch basketball back then.

Nobody and I repeat NOBODY ever called Marc Gasol soft. He was like the Steven Adams of that era. Didn't nobody mess with him. In fact some used to wonder how he and Pau could be brothers considering how gully Marc was and how soft Pau was.

You exposed yourself. Now stop with the lies and revisionist history.

Stfu all Spanish players are considered soft and passive

Marc is more grizzly looking and bigger so he got it less but yes he still got it and is still considered soft and passive

Fakkit talk to some Raptors and Grizzlies fans

And I already told you Pau being called soft has nothing to do with his defense

Damn Lakers fan and Kobe stans been capping all thread and revising history

 

[A Tribe Called Quest ™]

I appreciate that you're one of the few to acknowledge that there's a debate to be had between Zach and Pau career-wise. If we're talking about 09-10 like this thread specified you're absolutely right. Z-Bo wasn't seen as much and certainly not better than Pau.

But I've been noticing the Z-Bo disrespect in this thread and I don't like it. Folks putting him in with the likes of David Lee, Carlos Boozer and David West. He's better than that. They also talking like there's this huge gap between him and guys like Pau and Bosh when there really isn't

Just looking at his numbers shows a level of consistency closer to KG and Duncan than Pau and Bosh. Nine years averaging a double-double (including five years of 20 and 10) compared to only five for Pau and three for Bosh. As you pointed out however Zach accumulated a lot of those years on losing Trail Blazers squads. Bosh and Pau had higher scoring averages in Memphis and Toronto but never went far either, so we can't just look at stats to debate this

Let's move on to accolades. Admittedly Pau and Bosh have Randolph beat on this one, but context is important here. Pau and Bosh happened to be on two of the most high profiled squads ever. When it came to All-Star awards playing in the East also helped Bosh and Pau (when he picked up a few more with the Bulls) because competition at the forward/center spot wasn't as great. Zach could have up to five All-Star selections but since Memphis ain't a big market they would only select one player to represent the Grizzlies. If you look at it as a whole his production in Memphis was easily comparable to the years Pau had on the Lakers and Bosh on the Heat, but since they played for championship squads (alongside players way better than them) their path to recognition was easier.

Finally we get to their impact on winning, specifically as the main guy. Bosh and Pau never got out the first round (with Pau not winning a single game), whereas Zach led his squad all the way to the WCF. He also beat a 60-win Spurs team as an eighth seed while being the #1 option and without his second best player (yes Rudy Gay was seen that way in 2011). To be fair Randolph had a lot more to work with than Bosh and Pau and those later Grizzlies squads were more of a collective effort... but he still should get credit as being the main leader to get his team that far. Marc only took over the team in 2015; prior to that he was a defensive anchor when Gay was there and a secondary option along with Conley when Gay left. In an ironic twist, the guy once considered a black hole and horrible teammate had become a greater leader than Pau and Bosh ever were

All three weren't the best defenders in the world, though Pau and Bosh were servicable on the Lakers and Heat. Marc helped masked Zach's deficiencies in that area a whole lot admittedly. Pau was the best passer of the bunch but Bosh and Zach (in his later years) knew how to give it up and find the open man too

I have no problem with anyone putting Pau and Bosh over Z-Bo all time and saying they're better. What I'm trying to say is that there's a debate to be had there when looking at their overall careers with the proper context. Pau and Bosh were able to play a supporting role on championship squads that helped significantly improve their standing in the eyes of many. If Z-Bo was able to play on a high profile squad and rack up a few more All Star selections than the gap wouldn't be seen as wide at all

Bro I’m a Grizzlies fan, and at a certain point I turned on Z Bo and realized we overrated him. Dudes finishing skills after the injury would piss me the fukk off, his passing was meh, his defense was meh and his short ass couldn’t deal with length. I was in the minority of wanting to ship him, and keep Rudy (which would have bolstered our offense, in the years we needed it )

 

[A Tribe Called Quest ™]

Stfu all Spanish players are considered soft and passive

Marc is more grizzly looking and bigger so he got it less but yes he still got it and is still considered soft and passive

Fakkit talk to some Raptors and Grizzlies fans

And I already told you Pau being called soft has nothing to do with his defense

Damn Lakers fan and Kobe stans been capping all thread and revising history

Bro this nikka stupid asl, he really said no one called Marc soft or passive

Man we used to be on Marc’s head during the playoffs for being passive

Conley would always show out, and this nikka Marc would be indecisive asf