We always talk about producers, but did you know top mixing engineers charge $4,000-$5000+ per mix?

Mac Casper

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I get the 4-5000 per song if its a single for radio/the club.

But aren't there mid-level guys who can do it damn near the same for 1k a track ?

Maybe 10-15k an album ?

Of course, there's prolly some kid fresh outta wherever who has the potential to do the same quality for free. Dude just doesn't have the certified stamp on him to command that type of price.

But it's the same chance of someone doing the same quality music production as a top-flight producer

There's more of a chance of coming across this anomaly then an artist seriously coming out of left field and dropping a breakout hit . . because for that to happen he either has an incredible budget on his own or he's come across all of these anomalies (aka "stars aligning")

And remember . . dude spends $1,000-$4,000 on the mix of his single + top flight mastering . . maybe $1,000 to $2,000 in studio expense before it even gets mixed . . .

Add all of that . . now consider this, for this project to be successful this expense above needs to be 10% of the overall budget for the song. 90% of the expense needs to go toward marketing

Now dude has to be a music maker and competent marketer/promoter
 

Cynic

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Of course, there's prolly some kid fresh outta wherever who has the potential to do the same quality for free. Dude just doesn't have the certified stamp on him to command that type of price.

But it's the same chance of someone doing the same quality music production as a top-flight producer

There's more of a chance of coming across this anomaly then an artist seriously coming out of left field and dropping a breakout hit . . because for that to happen he either has an incredible budget on his own or he's come across all of these anomalies (aka "stars aligning")

And remember . . dude spends $1,000-$4,000 on the mix of his single + top flight mastering . . maybe $1,000 to $2,000 in studio expense before it even gets mixed . . .

Add all of that . . now consider this, for this project to be successful this expense above needs to be 10% of the overall budget for the song. 90% of the expense needs to go toward marketing

Now dude has to be a music maker and competent marketer/promoter


Thing is it's a skill...and like any skill you can only achieve mastery through repetition, accountability and discipline.


So there is some kid out there who is probably has been doing it since his teens and manically obsessed with engineering but hasn't been discovered so to speak.

I ain't fussed by production...that much. A lot of independent producers are just as good in my opinion.


My question to you though is...can other engineers who aren't big names do similar quality work for 1k ?


What's an incredible budget to you for an artist ?
 

SirBiatch

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Rap music is not solely used to speak on "hard living".:ufdup:

yes it is. It's embedded all the way throughout the culture.

you're thinking 'rhymes'. I'm thinking much beyond that.

It's the ethos. the feel. the way the groove operates. Remember that people weren't even rapping in the beginning. It was just the edginess/hardness of that bboy groove.

So yeah, grit been there.

The 1st real rap talking about the struggle was the "Message" by GMF and the Furious 5...which contained no samples...where does the "grit" come from?

that song is gritty as fukk. Are you kidding me right now?

it seems tame now but that reality rap was HARD. and the beat is hard.
 
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Mixing and mastering is underrated. The Bawd Elliott Schiener said in one interview that he worked on a 5.1 surround sound mix for the Eagles for about a year, ending up with something like over 200 mixes. If you listen to a DVD-Audio high resolution 5.1 mix by him you will know that whatever he charges is worth the money, makes an album sound like everything else you've listened to was through AM radio
 
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Oh and for the record, mixing modern hip hop will never be as important as mixing classic rock, jazz, or classical music. Modern hip hop has so much dynamic compression involved that there is simply less stuff to mix and you lose a lot of the dynamics that a good mix can really make shine. When all the sounds are compressed to play at the same volume/level you don't have to worry about mixing all the tracks in a way that meshes well, they are all flattened to shyt to sound loud. If you don't know what I'm talking about you can see albums like Guns and Roses' Chinese Democracy which was mixed and mastered with no dynamic compression.

Also while in typing this I'm listening to The Alan Parsons Project in DSD, this dude Alan Parsons is the truth. He produced Dark Side of the Moon and shyt like that. Really great recording, production, mixing etc.
 

Mac Casper

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Oh and for the record, mixing modern hip hop will never be as important as mixing classic rock, jazz, or classical music. Modern hip hop has so much dynamic compression involved that there is simply less stuff to mix and you lose a lot of the dynamics that a good mix can really make shine. When all the sounds are compressed to play at the same volume/level you don't have to worry about mixing all the tracks in a way that meshes well, they are all flattened to shyt to sound loud. If you don't know what I'm talking about you can see albums like Guns and Roses' Chinese Democracy which was mixed and mastered with no dynamic compression.

Also while in typing this I'm listening to The Alan Parsons Project in DSD, this dude Alan Parsons is the truth. He produced Dark Side of the Moon and shyt like that. Really great recording, production, mixing etc.

I was going to mention this earlier in the thread

As for your comment about mixing in hip-hop and it's relative importance. Mixing is just as crucial to music in any genre . . however music marketed for audiophiles is usually jazz
 

noumena

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Engineering is maybe the next frontier in Hip Hop. I'd elaborate but I don't wanna give away too much game.


I will say tho as I've been saying for over 10 years now. "I'm a student of Dr. Dre". I always paid close attention to what that man was doing #Pause. Ever since "detox" got announced I always wanted to be ahead of the curve. My mind went wild when I first heard about it

:camby:
 

Mac Casper

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Lol answer me breh.
Do I think that you can find someone for $1,000 that can offer the same quality as these mix engineers charging $4,000?

Certainly . . there's just mathematically too many engineers out there for someone to not have an incredible talent for sounds combined with a developed skill for the craft

However these guys charging $4,000 a mix are working in $10 million dollar studios . . so you might end up paying studio expenses in addition to the mixers rate

These $4,000 flat rates are the upper-echelon of the business, most engineers are charging hourly, and usually the majority of the ones charging flat rate are a cross between amateurs and hustlers in the business, they'll sell mixing services for $50 a song, $100 a song, $200 a song - usually these guys will cap-off at $500 - some shiesty studio engineers will be trying to milk the clock on people who they think don't have much studio experience. There was even a skit on one of Lady of Rage's first albums about this
 

Mac Casper

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Mixing and mastering is underrated. The Bawd Elliott Schiener said in one interview that he worked on a 5.1 surround sound mix for the Eagles for about a year, ending up with something like over 200 mixes. If you listen to a DVD-Audio high resolution 5.1 mix by him you will know that whatever he charges is worth the money, makes an album sound like everything else you've listened to was through AM radio
I can't find the article anymore but there was a plan to release Michael Jackson's albums in 5.1 sound but he wouldn't approve of the mixes. They went over 200 mixes and still wasn't approving anything so they eventually scrapped the project

At this point MJ was probably :troll: + :umad: @ Sony
 

Mac Casper

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First Jackson Effort Rejected, New One Not Ready | Fox News

First Jackson Effort Rejected, New One Not Ready

This has not been the best week for Michael Jackson. So much is riding on his new album and Madison Square Garden shows that the pressure must be enormous.

Now I am told by a source from the recording studios where Michael’s been working that Invincible is not yet finished after all. Although it’s set for a September 25th release date, the album is being worked on as we speak, at both the Hit Factory recording studios in New York and Florida, and at Sony recording studios in New York.

“Michael definitely turned in an album to Sony last year that was rejected,” says my source. “They were like, What? You can’t put this out.” So, back to the drawing board.

This jibes with the reports from last fall that Jackson had an album almost completed. It’s certainly what he said in November, when I spoke with him. Jackson said then that he’d played five songs for Sony executives and they were thrilled. Guess not.

In June this column broke the news that Jackson had played Invincible for 60 or so people from Sony and BMI Music at the Hit Factory in Florida. They all declared it a winner.

“Not so,” says my source. “They were very upset.”

Jackson is said to have called in his old recording engineer, Bruce Swedien, who polished up the Thriller and Bad albums. Problem is, Swedien had been fired by Jackson in a cost cutting move some time ago. So the two had to patch things up.

The question is: How can Jackson not disappoint someone at this point? If the first announced single, “Rock My World,” isn’t the second coming of “Billie Jean,” I’m afraid August will be spent dissecting Jackson’s future.

The source also says that Jackson’s behavior in the recording studio is just as weird as we might think. “When he arrives, everyone who works here has to hide. We can’t be seen by him or vice versa. If you have to go to the bathroom, you wait 'til he passes.”

I am also told that Jackson has spent not only millions on the making of Invincible, but millions more on the planned re-release of his catalogue by Sony this fall. All of his albums, from Off the Wall through HIStory, were remixed for the new Sony Super Audio CD format. But Jackson, working through an engineer, went through 50 different mixes of each song from each album. “He went through them and over and over again. It’s not like they hadn’t already been remastered for CD in the first place. And it was the same engineer who did it the first time. The guy just leaks money.”

All this album trouble is coupled with news last week — as this column predicted — that Jermaine and Randy Jackson would not perform with Michael at the Garden shows. Jermaine did have one big hit album of his own, a self titled offering on Arista Records in 1984. It had two duets on it: "Tell Me I’m Not Dreaming," with Michael; and "Take Good Care of My Heart," with Whitney Houston. Ironically, that latter duet led to a relationship between then very young Whitney and then very married Jermaine in the mid-80s. Now Whitney is scheduled to play the Garden dates, and Jermaine is out in the cold.

A funny postscript had another column claiming that this wrinkle didn’t matter since Jermaine hadn’t been with the Jacksons when they recorded for Epic Records “and that’s when they had most of their hits.”

Well, spin is great, but the Jacksons on Epic were a sad afterthought to theJackson 5’s career at Motown. They had two hits on Epic, “Enjoy Yourself” in 1976 and “Shake Your Body” in 1979 — and neither made the top 5. It was Motown that made the Jacksons, with Jermaine, Randy, Tito and Marlon, such no. 1 hits such as “ABC,” “I Want You Back,” “The Love You Save,” etc. I sincerely doubt anyone is paying $500 a ticket to hear the former songs sung by anyone.

Will there be more Michael Jackson items this summer? You betcha. The countdown is on for September 7th for the show and the 25th for the album. Before that, “Rock My World” on July 30th. How will it all end? We’ll just have to wait and see. A big hit Michael Jackson album is just what record stores need so desperately right now. I hope they get it.

Six Feet Under Whacks Disney One More Time

My almost-favorite TV show, HBO’s Six Feet Under, took another swipe at Disney last night.

You may recall this column was the first to report that creator Alan Ball was so mad at Disney/ABC for canceling his sitcom, Oh Grow Up, that he named a corpse in the Fisher & Sons prep room after ABC entertainment chief Stu Bloomberg.

On last night’s show, a promiscuous teen — dubbed a “Danger Slut” by one of the main characters — revealed that “My dad is an executive at Disney.” Ho ho ho. Of course, this girl smokes pot, has sex with older men, and is generally not a squeaky clean Disney sort.

I say “almost favorite,” because I now dread the grisly graphic nature of the stuff going on in Six Feet Under as much as I love the rest of it. In particular, the main story — about Nate Fisher and Brenda — is dazzling. Peter Krause, Rachel Griffiths and Jeremy Sisto all deserve Emmy’s now. And Frances Conroy as the Fisher’s mother is just beyond terrific. Too bad the show missed this year’s Emmy deadline. It makes nearly everything on broadcast TV seem very tired.

But please — let’s cut down on the smashed in faces and mangled body parts. If I want to see that, I can watch the news!

Condit’s Hometown Paper Struggles With Brother’s Arrest

I received this email from someone close to The Modesto Bee on Friday. “I am personally sorry you feel you were treated poorly when you called The Modesto Bee asking questions about Condit's relatives. …Yes it is true we have been instructed not to discuss the Condit and Levy stories with any outside news agencies and to refer them to Mark Vasche…”

So I feel I’m doing a public service for the people of Modesto, California. Since their own local paper, The Modesto Bee, doesn’t think it’s newsworthy enough to put on their Web site, I thought I’d tell them. (The story of Darrell did make it as a sidebar in the print edition.)

On Saturday, the younger brother of your local congressman was arrested in Florida. He’s an ex-con with a long drug record and previous stays at federal and state prisons. Florida police arrested him on an outstanding warrant, and the FBI wants to question him regarding his whereabouts on May 1, 2000 — the day Chandra Levy disappeared.

Also, reports from Washington on Saturday indicated that your same local congressman, Gary Condit, admitted to the FBI in his latest interview that although he’s a married man, he had a sexual relationship with Levy, a 24-year-old intern at the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

The Modesto Bee, perhaps exercising caution, posted this story at the top of its Web site on Sunday: “X Fest: Adam Donald and Honeyspot rock out to the delight of fans and fellow musicians Saturday night.” Their other top story, surely of much interest to Modestans far from home: “ Indonesian legislators open hearing to impeach President Abdurrahman Wahid.”

The paper did have two features on the Levy case. One was, as usual, a follow-up to a Los Angeles Times story about Condit’s gift giving, which includes, oddly, $31,000 in flowers over the last several years. They ran a second story about how Modestans feel now that they’re in the national spotlight. They’re not too happy.
 

Sccit

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MIXING IS THE NEW PRODUCING....YOU CAN TELL IF U LOOK AT THE NEW DRE ALBUM CREDITS. IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE OF THE WORD, HE PRODUCED EVERY 1 OF THEM TRACKS, BUT ONLY GOT MIXING CREDIT ON A LOT OF EM.
 
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