We always talk about producers, but did you know top mixing engineers charge $4,000-$5000+ per mix?

[FunkDoc1112]

I'm not going to pretend to know the difference between a mixed and unmixed song, can someone explain with audio examples?

Peep the clean and dirty versions of Give Up The Goods by Mobb Deep. The Clean version sounds like ASS. Might as well be a different song. It's hard to find the clean version online tho.

Q-Tip mixed the original and some nobodies did the mix for the clean single. He even mentioned how much they messed it up on Juan Ep a few years ago.

 

[FeloniousMonk]

Wrong that grittiness is what shaped the sound of hiphop. That's like telling Jimmy Hendrix he doesn't know how to play a guitar, just because people considered Feedback a bad thing before he turned it into a form of art. If you make a hiphop record sound clean and don't do it right, it Lacks soul and just sounds like any other pop record.

That grittiness has everything to do with hardcore rap music and necessity..not hip hop in general..

And using Jimmy was a bad example, he covers one aspect of rock music and that was decades ago.....name me a prominent guitarist TODAY who still rocks with the feedback at their show.

Not to mention..if the inner city youth of the 70's and 80's had learned how to play instruments, like the cacs who formed garage bands.. what need would there be to sample music?

No grittiness, no mud..just renditions and original music..there would be NO NEED to sample James Brown..just have your drummer friend replay the part..

That has nothing to do with anything. That whole perspective is white washed. Mud is quality to most rap music fans. It's been that way since Day One.

With the exception of some albums here and there, people ain't start really gettin all technical with their Sound until 97'. 1993 started it off but shyt wasn't getting Techno until later on.

Okay nothing to do with it?

If EVERY rap producer from the 70's and 80's played instruments..there would be no need to sample, comprehendo?

Or is that a falsehood?

There would have been MORE original compositions, yet there wasnt..niccas started to sample cuz they couldnt AFFORD a band to reply..so niccas being niccas went the cheap route..sample a break beat..loop..rap...KAPOW..HIP HOP!!

If Mud is quality, there would be more of it on the radio and protest from fans about WHY mud isn't being played on the radio.

On top..who said you have to stay in mud and your tastes cant evolve...see and thats the problem...

"People aint really get all technical"

Need some examples because it seems to me anybody who was on a major label back THEN was in the big studios as well.

And anybody who was a producer was also a gadget geek...soo...

Are you saying the artist/producers refused to use the technology or the label didnt offer...Im a lil confused bout that statement.

 

[Mac Casper]

That grittiness has everything to do with hardcore rap music and necessity..not hip hop in general..

And using Jimmy was a bad example, he covers one aspect of rock music and that was decades ago.....name me a prominent guitarist TODAY who still rocks with the feedback at their show.

Not to mention..if the inner city youth of the 70's and 80's had learned how to play instruments, like the cacs who formed garage bands.. what need would there be to sample music?

No grittiness, no mud..just renditions and original music..there would be NO NEED to sample James Brown..just have your drummer friend replay the part..

Okay nothing to do with it?

If EVERY rap producer from the 70's and 80's played instruments..there would be no need to sample, comprehendo?

Or is that a falsehood?

There would have been MORE original compositions, yet there wasnt..niccas started to sample cuz they couldnt AFFORD a band to reply..so niccas being niccas went the cheap route..sample a break beat..loop..rap...KAPOW..HIP HOP!!

If Mud is quality, there would be more of it on the radio and protest from fans about WHY mud isn't being played on the radio.

On top..who said you have to stay in mud and your tastes cant evolve...see and thats the problem...

"People aint really get all technical"

Need some examples because it seems to me anybody who was on a major label back THEN was in the big studios as well.

And anybody who was a producer was also a gadget geek...soo...

Are you saying the artist/producers refused to use the technology or the label didnt offer...Im a lil confused bout that statement.

co-sign



muthaphukkas over here like - "We have poorly mixed music and we like it"

 

[FunkDoc1112]

Found it:

Clean -

OG -

The drums and sample are mixed way too low. No impact at all and the bass is pumped up over everything else. Mixing can make or break a song.

 

[SirBiatch]

What feeling?

You mean the samples and chops because rap producers couldnt afford outboard gear to clean up thier tracks back in the day?

That grittiness you speak of is lack of budget and high end production studio.

No. the feeling of do-it-yourself and "expressions of hard living" that's so integral to great hip hop.

That has nothing to do with anything. That whole perspective is white washed. Mud is quality to most rap music fans. It's been that way since Day One.

With the exception of some albums here and there, people ain't start really gettin all technical with their Sound until 97'. 1993 started it off but shyt wasn't getting Techno until later on.

There are so many examples of songs I heard that sounded muddy and great. Then got mixed 'properly' and took the raw out of it.

Peep the clean and dirty versions of Give Up The Goods by Mobb Deep. The Clean version sounds like ASS. Might as well be a different song. It's hard to find the clean version online tho.

Q-Tip mixed the original and some nobodies did the mix for the clean single. He even mentioned how much they messed it up on Juan Ep a few years ago.

Great example.

 

[SirBiatch]

That grittiness has everything to do with hardcore rap music and necessity..not hip hop in general..

Hip hop is hardcore. From day one.

On top..who said you have to stay in mud and your tastes cant evolve...see and thats the problem...

Nah the problem is that you have a lot of frauds (cacs and even some Black people) who never appreciated hip hop for what it was at its core. But latched on when it got popular and now want to change the rules.

No one is saying that hip hop has to be super muddy all the time. Variety is the spice of life. With that said, the GRIT is what makes hip hop HIP HOP. Period.

Without the grit, the genre becomes pointless. It's gotta be there somewhere in the sound.

 

[scuba]

That grittiness has everything to do with hardcore rap music and necessity..not hip hop in general..

And using Jimmy was a bad example, he covers one aspect of rock music and that was decades ago.....name me a prominent guitarist TODAY who still rocks with the feedback at their show.

Not to mention..if the inner city youth of the 70's and 80's had learned how to play instruments, like the cacs who formed garage bands.. what need would there be to sample music?

No grittiness, no mud..just renditions and original music..there would be NO NEED to sample James Brown..just have your drummer friend replay the part..

Okay nothing to do with it?

If EVERY rap producer from the 70's and 80's played instruments..there would be no need to sample, comprehendo?

Or is that a falsehood?

There would have been MORE original compositions, yet there wasnt..niccas started to sample cuz they couldnt AFFORD a band to reply..so niccas being niccas went the cheap route..sample a break beat..loop..rap...KAPOW..HIP HOP!!

If Mud is quality, there would be more of it on the radio and protest from fans about WHY mud isn't being played on the radio.

On top..who said you have to stay in mud and your tastes cant evolve...see and thats the problem...

"People aint really get all technical"

Need some examples because it seems to me anybody who was on a major label back THEN was in the big studios as well.

And anybody who was a producer was also a gadget geek...soo...

Are you saying the artist/producers refused to use the technology or the label didnt offer...Im a lil confused bout that statement.

Dude, you are entirely in your rights to dislike whatever you feel... But your stretching this out into all other directions, spawn a new thread if you want to bytch about sampling... Totally different topic...

As far as mixing goes it's a science, an art, and a aesthetic... There isn't one right way to mix something, or it would have been automated years ago...

Even today great well mixed rock records have significantly different mixing than the same records would have had 20 years ago...

Even in the same era even in the same genre a herbie Hancock record woulda been mixed different than Ron Carter record... Because it's largely about prioritization....

I ain't one for dirt or mud but let us not pretend that mixing prioritization doesn't change from genre to genre and era to era...

An engineers job is supposed to go hand in hand with the producer... There is supposed to be give and take...

 

[Jimmy ValenTime]

honestly rap mixxing is not the complicated its not like its mutiple instruments its usually a vocalist and a beat

dynamics is the key for a rap record

i get pretty good mixes for the 100 to 250 range


mixed by otis clapp



mixed by Willie Green




Mixed by Statik Selektah

 

[Axum Ezana]

Hip hop is hardcore. From day one.



Nah the problem is that you have a lot of frauds (cacs and even some Black people) who never appreciated hip hop for what it was at its core. But latched on when it got popular and now want to change the rules.

No one is saying that hip hop has to be super muddy all the time. Variety is the spice of life. With that said, the GRIT is what makes hip hop HIP HOP. Period.

Without the grit, the genre becomes pointless. It's gotta be there somewhere in the sound.

cacs don't appreciate the anti-kkkops n black empowerment in hip hop...once that was gone it went super pop n mainstream.

 

[Mac Casper]

cacs don't appreciate the anti-kkkops n black empowerment in hip hop...once that was gone it went super pop n mainstream.

Corporate investment made hip-hop mainstream. It just became about maximizing the strength of their investment

It's actually really simple

then hip-hop started being ran by dude's like the one in my avi

 

[DJDONTNOBODYPAYME]

Dude, you are entirely in your rights to dislike whatever you feel... But your stretching this out into all other directions, spawn a new thread if you want to bytch about sampling... Totally different topic...

As far as mixing goes it's a science, an art, and a aesthetic... There isn't one right way to mix something, or it would have been automated years ago...

Even today great well mixed rock records have significantly different mixing than the same records would have had 20 years ago...

Even in the same era even in the same genre a herbie Hancock record woulda been mixed different than Ron Carter record... Because it's largely about prioritization....

I ain't one for dirt or mud but let us not pretend that mixing prioritization doesn't change from genre to genre and era to era...

An engineers job is supposed to go hand in hand with the producer... There is supposed to be give and take...

That's that Eurocentric shyt. Especially with the FACT that Dollars drive Direction

 

[FeloniousMonk]

No. the feeling of do-it-yourself and "expressions of hard living" that's so integral to great hip hop.

Again..you are referring to a particular time in hip hop and "expressions" are about the feelings of the inner city and urban youth.

Rap music is not solely used to speak on "hard living".

How we forget our history and dont recall Hip Hop started out as party music.


The do-it-yourself=broke status or no budget.

Why you think rappers started to get d-boys/street cats to finance their rap careers...

Hip hop is hardcore. From day one.



Nah the problem is that you have a lot of frauds (cacs and even some Black people) who never appreciated hip hop for what it was at its core. But latched on when it got popular and now want to change the rules.

No one is saying that hip hop has to be super muddy all the time. Variety is the spice of life. With that said, the GRIT is what makes hip hop HIP HOP. Period.

Without the grit, the genre becomes pointless. It's gotta be there somewhere in the sound.

Which Day one are you referring to?

THis one?


Or maybe this one?


Hmmm..1st rap record....


Hip hop existed before samples and breakbeats and actually is partly birthed out of disco.

The 1st real rap talking about the struggle was the "Message" by GMF and the Furious 5...which contained no samples...where does the "grit" come from?

And really where does "hardcore" start? like which artist began the genre and upon which year was it proclaimed?

Schooly D? Just Ice? Kool Mo Dee?
I do see your opinion on the "grit" aspect...and actually had the same mindset at one time long ago on some "if it dont have a breakbeat/sample..it aint hip hop! "..yet that doesn't validate it being pointless based on a form of production that grew out of necessity, not want.

During that segway of the form in the mid 80's to 90's, hip hop became the easiest and CHEAPEST form of music to produce(before sample clearing), which made beatmakers get more indepth with their chop process..then becomes a form of art in itself.

Why do you think most hip hop is done with live instrumentation vs sampling nowdays?

Artists can afford session players, they may even go to school to learn music to make REAL HIP HOP.

Just cuz rap aint all gritty, grimey and from the gutter doesnt make it more hip hop..just makes it a music that evolves or maybe nowdays de-evolves around its influences.

One more thing...
THIS is real hip hop

 

[FeloniousMonk]

Dude, you are entirely in your rights to dislike whatever you feel... But your stretching this out into all other directions, spawn a new thread if you want to bytch about sampling... Totally different topic...

As far as mixing goes it's a science, an art, and a aesthetic... There isn't one right way to mix something, or it would have been automated years ago...

Even today great well mixed rock records have significantly different mixing than the same records would have had 20 years ago...

Even in the same era even in the same genre a herbie Hancock record woulda been mixed different than Ron Carter record... Because it's largely about prioritization....

I ain't one for dirt or mud but let us not pretend that mixing prioritization doesn't change from genre to genre and era to era...

An engineers job is supposed to go hand in hand with the producer... There is supposed to be give and take...

Not derailing thread..you are correct.

Im saying real hiphop doesnt begin and end the "grittiness" aspect of it.

 

[Propaganda]

all this talk about 'grit' and 'cacs' and 'realness' and shyt is pure nonsense. certain tracks/albums/artists/genres are meant to have a certain aesthetic to them and records are mixed to enhance that.

you wouldn't mix a jazz song the same way you'd mix a taylor swift song...just like you wouldn't mix an 808 mafia track the same way you would an early wu-tang track...or say, a statik selektah song.

 

[Cynic]

I get the 4-5000 per song if its a single for radio/the club.

But aren't there mid-level guys who can do it damn near the same for 1k a track ?

Maybe 10-15k an album ?