We always talk about producers, but did you know top mixing engineers charge $4,000-$5000+ per mix?

[Mac Casper]

MIXING IS THE NEW PRODUCING....YOU CAN TELL IF U LOOK AT THE NEW DRE ALBUM CREDITS. IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE OF THE WORD, HE PRODUCED EVERY 1 OF THEM TRACKS, BUT ONLY GOT MIXING CREDIT ON A LOT OF EM.

There's a lot of instances where the mix engineer is doing more of the overall song production aspects than the person who's being credited as the producer. For example, people who crediting Soundclick producers as the "producer" of a song when they weren't ever in the studio or involved in the overall direction of the song - this is a beat maker - not a producer. This person is entitled to a songwriting credit because they are responsible for the music composition . . but they are not the producer. That would be like someone getting a director's credit on a movie without ever showing up on the set, that's unheard of

 

[Sccit]

There's a lot of instances where the mix engineer is doing more of the overall song production aspects than the person who's being credited as the producer. For example, people who crediting Soundclick producers as the "producer" of a song when they weren't ever in the studio or involved in the overall direction of the song - this is a beat maker - not a producer. This person is entitled to a songwriting credit because they are responsible for the music composition . . but they are not the producer. That would be like someone getting a director's credit on a movie without ever showing up on the set, that's unheard of

EXACTLY. HIP-HOP CHANGED THE DEFINITION OF PRODUCER TO BEATMAKER. PRETTY WHACK. IF DRE'S COMPTON ALBUM WAS RELEASED IN THE 90S, IT WOULDA SIMPLY SAID "PRODUCED BY DR. DRE" ON THE BACK. POLITICS AND SENSITIVE BEATMAKERS FUCCED THE GAME UP.

 

[rapbeats]

I was gonna disagree but I understand why you say this.
You're right to some extent. The problem is sonically hip hop is moving in a direction that's lowering the quality of the music.
Most clients care more about a record "going hard in the whip", then being sonically correct and organic.
A lot of modern rap is mixed poorly due to artists and producers asking it to sound that way. Trust me i experience this on a daily basis.
Even with that said, There still are a lot of great dynamic hip hop mixes out there!

do you know why the new boy clients are asking for that low quality sound? because everyone now has the ability to make a DECENT sounding song via a computer and a few plugins. due to this phenomenon you have no named artist with little to know money backing them getting lucky making a hit song. that song blows up on the mixtape scene and might hit a club or radio or at worse the internets(youtube). its not even polished yet. since these dudes dont have legit deals yet. So they are doing the best they can in reality. but if rapper X's song blows up and it was truthfully his rough version/raw version. guess what the other beat makers and rappers are going to try to do? Copy that very same sound. especially in this era of I do what the last man did who was trending.

Before you could do a decent job on a computer. you had to have money/access to someone with a REAL studio and real No how. that took the time to learn their high price equipment they were using. This meant for the most part everyone song is going to sound professional and polished. some better then others still. but you get the point.

its a gift and a curse that any tom, dikk, and harry can make a complete song with a computer and a few plug ins.

now last but not least. its something that dre and jimmy I talked about when the were first trying to promote beats headphones and talking about fidelity of the music just dying due to the new era falling in love with smaller file sizes for the purpose of taking all of your songs with you via cell phone, ipod, or streaming them over the internet/4g network. this means you have to have MP3 files which lose a lot of quality from the original uncompressed recording file.

But for the record. hiphop music is supposed to knock in the whip. while also having clear vocals clear highs and clear mids. it can be done. because its been done before(in other eras). dre has had knocking beats and clean sound. so its possible to pull off even in hiphop. but a lot of that has to do with dre having a lot of money and the know how to go get session musicians to play loops and what not. so you can get a super clean sound.

 

[Pitfalls0117]

Listen to a lot of chief keeps stuff. It's mixed terribly

Exactly. I was listening to Almighty So today in the gym and there are few songs on there (Nice stands out) that could be so hot but are mixed absolutely terribly.

 

[Mac Casper]

do you know why the new boy clients are asking for that low quality sound? because everyone now has the ability to make a DECENT sounding song via a computer and a few plugins. due to this phenomenon you have no named artist with little to know money backing them getting lucky making a hit song. that song blows up on the mixtape scene and might hit a club or radio or at worse the internets(youtube). its not even polished yet. since these dudes dont have legit deals yet. So they are doing the best they can in reality. but if rapper X's song blows up and it was truthfully his rough version/raw version. guess what the other beat makers and rappers are going to try to do? Copy that very same sound. especially in this era of I do what the last man did who was trending.

Before you could do a decent job on a computer. you had to have money/access to someone with a REAL studio and real No how. that took the time to learn their high price equipment they were using. This meant for the most part everyone song is going to sound professional and polished. some better then others still. but you get the point.

its a gift and a curse that any tom, dikk, and harry can make a complete song with a computer and a few plug ins.

now last but not least. its something that dre and jimmy I talked about when the were first trying to promote beats headphones and talking about fidelity of the music just dying due to the new era falling in love with smaller file sizes for the purpose of taking all of your songs with you via cell phone, ipod, or streaming them over the internet/4g network. this means you have to have MP3 files which lose a lot of quality from the original uncompressed recording file.

But for the record. hiphop music is supposed to knock in the whip. while also having clear vocals clear highs and clear mids. it can be done. because its been done before(in other eras). dre has had knocking beats and clean sound. so its possible to pull off even in hiphop. but a lot of that has to do with dre having a lot of money and the know how to go get session musicians to play loops and what not. so you can get a super clean sound.

Dre is not a good example for what is possible

 

[Mac Casper]

The greatest hip-hop albums in terms of sonic quality are as follows

1. 2001 - Dr. Dre
2. All Eyez on Me - 2Pac
3. The Chronic - Dr. Dre
4. Doggystyle - Snoop Dogg
5. Safe & Sound - DJ Quik

--------------------------------------------

The key - ARRANGEMENT

Great mixing,

All Eyez on Me was supposedly mixed by DJ Quik - he's been quoted as saying that at the time he didn't see the album as magical as it was because he was so into his own thing

Cue - Safe & Sound - this is the project he was working on during that time

All of these albums are MASTERED by the same mastering house

Bernie Grundman - absolutely and definitively the GOAT of music mastering
Bernie Grundman mastered The Chronic - he turned down 2001 because he refused to mix it, due to the peaks - if you analyze the sound of 2001 it's off from an audio perspective.

so Brian BIG BASS Gardner - the GOAT Hip-hop mastering engineer . . who works at Bernie Grundman's studio . . mastered 2001

He also mastered All Eyez on Me, Doggystyle, Get Rich or Die Tryin' , The Marshall Mathers LP and many more <<< about 50 million albums sold right there

Start paying attention to the mastering credits


On the flip-side, the mastering house with the #2 spot . . Tom Coyne

He usually masters pop records . . Britney Spears, Taylor Swift, etc.


How do you Macklemore is financially backed by a label? . . . he had his album mastered by BOTH Tom Coyne and Brian "Big Bass" Gardner . . he selected between them both, text book example of "I have a budget for mastering that will just get written off I don't use it

These mastering engineers rates are BY MINUTE of audio - they have studios with custom and specialized analog gear

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

i figure since it's in the subjext matter... we can start asking you engineer brehs some questions


i have a home setup... pro tools... waves diamond everything bundle


lets say i have an mp3 of a beat.... now i'm laying down my vocals....... what's next????




here's my set up.....

record main tracks
record adlibs, backround vocals


compress them with a plugin setting
add some reverb to my double'd/backround vocals
mix them together to sound good
take mixed track and get rid of noise
apply mastering plugin

results:











but i KNOW this isn't what they'd do in a normal studio... and still i've had people say my mixing is great and a lot better than "local" rappers... but it still ain't on that level that i want it to be...

 

[karim]

Bernie Grundman mastered The Chronic - he turned down 2001 because he refused to mix it, due to the peaks - if you analyze the sound of 2001 it's off from an audio perspective.

This is what i'm talking about. 2001 might be off from an audio perspective, but it still sounds good and that is where dre wanted to go with his sound. it knocks but still sounds crisp and it has those distorted drums sounds that became signature for dre in the early 2000's. Those drums were already mixed wrong from an audio perspective, because the sound was achieved by cranking them all the way up before feeding them into the ssl. a dogmatic engineer would have mixed by the rules and turned them down, but those drums were what defined the sound of the entire album.

 

[nieman]

Honestly, mixing rap is not a challenge or worth spending $5000 for a song. Most of the sounds are digital and beat makers are better at mixing their sounds and effects. A good vocal recording is the true difference maker.

Mixing is about the bells and whistles.

I agree. In the 80's and 90s, we listened to tracks with horrible sound mixing, dubbed 3x over off a stolen recording from a tape recorder - the vocals were choppy and scratchy at best, beat was all over the place, fading in and out at random...not due to supposed to sounding like that...and sometimes inaudible. We still loved the song, and hearing the later finished and mixed version did not enhance or detract from your love for it.

 

[karim]

there is a lot of hyperbole and inaccuracies in this article ( e.g. dre doesn't always program his own drums, during the 2001 era, he had mel-man hired for that job specifically) but it's still an interesting article:

• One Of The Other Most Important Dr. Dre Facts Missing From "Straight Outta Compton"
  by Mark Batson
  
  posted Monday August 31, 2015 at 06:00AM PST | 35 comments
  
  
  
  
  
  Composer and frequent Dr. Dre collaborator Mark Batson pens an editorial detailing the true genius behind the career of Aftermath's head honcho.
  After witnessing Dr. Dre working in the studio for many years I would have to say that one of most important facts missing from the N.W.A movie [Straight Outta Compton] is not just aspects of Dre's personal and political life and vision, but a clear description of the high level of sonic mastery and expertise that he has exhibited and presented to the world for the past 30 years.
  
  When Russell Simmons and Rick Rubin presented Def Jam’s Hip Hop productions to the world with classics by Run DMC, LL Cool J and Beastie Boys, they brought not only productions that had dynamic and socially relevant songs to the world, but also a level of sonic excellence that was achieved by bringing top musicians and mixing engineers into the studio to engineer and fine tune those sound recordings.
  
  The difference between Dr. Dre and most producers is that when most producers get to a level where they feel they have the songs strong enough, they then bring in top level Grammy award-winning mixing engineers like Manny Maroquin, Serban Ghenea and Jimmy Douglass to fine tune the sonics and perfect them. Most successful hit producers are usually known to be paired with a world renowned sonic genius who has studied electronics and the use of probably either the Neve or SSL consoles who will then take the music and fine tune the frequencies in order to maximize the sonic experience. These mixers are well studied and learned persons who have mastered and perfected the art of combining science and math with audio technology on the same level as a person who has mastered any other complex scientific machinery that is extremely difficult to operate and requires a highly proficient level most often associated with technical geniuses.
  
  Take a look at an SSL console. You've probably seen them in pictures and have always stopped to think, “How do they use that thing? How do they operate all of the levers and buttons?” As a music producer, I will guarantee you that most of the people you've probably seen sitting in front of these consoles in a picture have no idea how to operate them proficiently either.
  
  "Boyz In The Hood" Sonically Stands The Test Of Time
  While watching Straight Outta Compton, one of the interesting things to note is not only “Boyz In The Hood,” a great and timeless recording of Eazy-E that soulfully captures a bit of LA inner city history, but it's also a recording so sonically proficient that 30 years later it stands up well next to anything recorded and on the radio today. This anomaly is the case of all of Dre's most well know records. Let's get to the reason why.
  
  Many of Dre's most famous recordings not only begin with him programming the first kick and snare drum, but they also end with him mixing the records with a scientific and sonic mastery created by his own two hands. Dre is not only the producer of the song and a writer of his music but is also the engineer who has mixed all of the recordings that he has released. There is no other scientific genius brought in to enhance his sounds or “man behind the curtain,” because he is that scientific technical genius.
  
  Most, if not all of the greater producers of all time have brought in the greatest drummer to set the tone and rhythm of the recording. Dre as the drum programmer is that drummer on his greatest records. At the end of producing the vocal and then getting a song sounding strong, Quincy Jones, Rick Rubin, T-Bone —and most of the current all-time greats and Grammy Producer of the Year —then bring in the top mixer and sonic mathematician engineers of their generation to mix their productions. Sonic scientists like Tom Lord Algae, Bruce Sweiden and David Ferguson often come to mind as the mixers who have enhanced the productions of the greats to make them sonically brilliant and timeless. One of the main facts missing from a movie about musicians and recordings is that Dr Dre is not only producing but is also mixing his own records personally to some of the highest audiofile quality ever witnessed.
  
  Much of the modern tone of globally appreciated Hip Hop recordings was developed by the Doctor’s hands. Kanye West once discussed his dream of making New York beats with “Los Angeles sonics." Kanye West wrote the summary for Dr. Dre in an article about greatest artists in Rolling Stone magazine where he stated Dr. Dre's song "Xxplosive" as where he "got his whole sound from."
  
  Dr. Dre is at the core of the development of taking Hip Hop records to that higher level of scientific and audio mastery. Influences of his mixing and placement of kick, snare and vocal can be heard in everything today from Britney Spears to Madonna to One Direction records and anything else that uses Hip Hop beats made with drum machines that imitate his crisp, clear, clean and thumping production sound.
  
  In Straight Outta Compton I witnessed Dre doing a bit of production work (in comedic fashion), getting ready to record 2pac’s vocal on “California Love” and developing the keyboard line on “Nuthin' But a G Thang”. In between there were N.W.A performances, family back story, business and police confrontations and sexual liaisons.
  
  However, if the story were really “keeping it real” to what Dr. Dre is regularly all about on a daily level, what you would really see would see on screen would be Mr. Young painstakingly behind the SSL console for hours, days and years on end first learning and then perfecting the use of electronic engineering on his mixing console and applying those skills with detail on the level of the highest rated electronic engineer in any field, and then using that rare and unprecedented skill to deliver recordings of the highest sound quality of our modern generation. No other big name producer has even come close to his programming and engineering skills, that have projected the recordings of Eminem, Gwen Stefani, Snoop Dogg, Mary J. Blige and yes, even J.J. FAD’s “Supersonic” into perfected sonic hits that can stand up forever as timeless and spectacular.
  
  When buying a product from a company often we have the choice to choose the high end most expensive version or possibly a cheaper version that is more applicable to the budget of the average person. One thing we can agree on that the most important thing on a Beats headset is the signature of Dr. Dre, which represents and stands for decades of sonic achievement.
  
  So, take the Compton soundtrack album and put it on in your Beats headset, or even better on the highest quality pair of speakers that you can get in front of. Not trying to sweep any personal drama under the rug, but while listening to Dre’s sonic excellence, remember that although Van Gogh cut off his ear in 1888, more than 100 years later what we all know and appreciate is that Starry Night is an artistic achievement in human developmental accomplishment.
  
  ….. and yes I just compared Dr. Dre to Vincent Van Gogh.
  
  Mark Batson is a multi-platinum award winning producer, musician and songwriter for Alicia Keys, Dave Matthews Band, Grace Potter, Seal, Dr Dre and Eminem. He is an alumni of Howard University and also former pianist for The Smithsonian Institution’s African American Culture Department.

• http://hiphopdx.com/editorials/id.2...dre-facts-missing-from-straight-outta-compton

 

[Womb Raider]

Somebody tell that nikka Nipsey Hussle to get a better mixing engineer

 

[PRVLG Sound Studios]

i figure since it's in the subjext matter... we can start asking you engineer brehs some questions


i have a home setup... pro tools... waves diamond everything bundle


lets say i have an mp3 of a beat.... now i'm laying down my vocals....... what's next????




here's my set up.....

record main tracks
record adlibs, backround vocals


compress them with a plugin setting
add some reverb to my double'd/backround vocals
mix them together to sound good
take mixed track and get rid of noise
apply mastering plugin

results:











but i KNOW this isn't what they'd do in a normal studio... and still i've had people say my mixing is great and a lot better than "local" rappers... but it still ain't on that level that i want it to be...

PM any questions you have, and i'll try to help you out

 

[PRVLG Sound Studios]

Salute to everyone in this thread.

Also if you're actually interested in hearing some professional mixing and mastering to your own music.
Hit us up. We've been holding down the coli for 3+ Years, engineers for 10+, and we work with coli members for the low just
to show love.
PM us, Email us PRVLGinc@gmail.com
Or check out our thread:
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/mixing-and-mastering-services-psa.9234/page-13

 

[rapbeats]

The greatest hip-hop albums in terms of sonic quality are as follows

1. 2001 - Dr. Dre
2. All Eyez on Me - 2Pac
3. The Chronic - Dr. Dre
4. Doggystyle - Snoop Dogg
5. Safe & Sound - DJ Quik

--------------------------------------------

The key - ARRANGEMENT

Great mixing,

All Eyez on Me was supposedly mixed by DJ Quik - he's been quoted as saying that at the time he didn't see the album as magical as it was because he was so into his own thing

Cue - Safe & Sound - this is the project he was working on during that time

All of these albums are MASTERED by the same mastering house

Bernie Grundman - absolutely and definitively the GOAT of music mastering
Bernie Grundman mastered The Chronic - he turned down 2001 because he refused to mix it, due to the peaks - if you analyze the sound of 2001 it's off from an audio perspective.

so Brian BIG BASS Gardner - the GOAT Hip-hop mastering engineer . . who works at Bernie Grundman's studio . . mastered 2001

He also mastered All Eyez on Me, Doggystyle, Get Rich or Die Tryin' , The Marshall Mathers LP and many more <<< about 50 million albums sold right there

Start paying attention to the mastering credits


On the flip-side, the mastering house with the #2 spot . . Tom Coyne

He usually masters pop records . . Britney Spears, Taylor Swift, etc.


How do you Macklemore is financially backed by a label? . . . he had his album mastered by BOTH Tom Coyne and Brian "Big Bass" Gardner . . he selected between them both, text book example of "I have a budget for mastering that will just get written off I don't use it

These mastering engineers rates are BY MINUTE of audio - they have studios with custom and specialized analog gear

didnt you just say dre is not a good example for whats possible replying to my other post? lol, then you come back showing us that mostly dre produced/mixed albums are the best sounding hiphop albums.lol

unless your point is calling out the people doing the mastering (big bass). i knew that when i was a kid checking those credits. i was like wait a second. this dude has that magic touch. he has to. after listening to a dre album. you have to turn the CD over or pull out the bucklet to find out what the hell is in this great sonic production. its like reading the ingredients on your favorite bag of chips, or your favorite ice cream, etc. the ish is so good. you immediately turn it over and start trying to find out what on earth is this great stuff made of. So yes in that regard you are correct. if you see these top named engineers on any album, no matter what the artist says. he/she is on a major. unless said artist is the son/daughter of an ultra rich entertainer.

 

[rapbeats]

i figure since it's in the subjext matter... we can start asking you engineer brehs some questions


i have a home setup... pro tools... waves diamond everything bundle


lets say i have an mp3 of a beat.... now i'm laying down my vocals....... what's next????




here's my set up.....

record main tracks
record adlibs, backround vocals


compress them with a plugin setting
add some reverb to my double'd/backround vocals
mix them together to sound good
take mixed track and get rid of noise
apply mastering plugin

results:











but i KNOW this isn't what they'd do in a normal studio... and still i've had people say my mixing is great and a lot better than "local" rappers... but it still ain't on that level that i want it to be...

the reason people who listen to your stuff says it sounds better than most if not all other local no name acts is because most of these dudes mixtapes sound like trash sonically. lets keep it 150. and thats not to say their rapping is trash or the beat is trash. but the overall sound is garbage.

#1 if you have a professional level mic with decent pop filter and acoustics around the mic to some what simulate an actual pro booth. you're 50% there when it comes to everyday people listening to you. especially youngins from this era(They dont know any better, they grew up on a compressed sound called a mp3). If you can somewhat gadge the appropriate amt of compression to put on the vocals as well as the volume of your vocals in comparison to the beat. you're 80% there, when it comes to sounding better than most non professionals.

but i'll tell you off the top. that song above you posted. your vocals are sitting on top of the music. i can tell the music is probably some lower quality mp3 file. your voice should be more in the pocket of the music. now that is also a choice. some people want their voices to sit some what on top of the music. while others like it blended more. to me it depends on the vibe of the song.

people will tell you "well hiphop songs usually sound like ..." but truth is, you can do your own thing and it still sounds professionally done."

But here's the reality of it all. You dont have the money to pay for the real beat thats not in mp3 form. so go ahead and make it sound as good as you can. and see if you can catch a hit. then once they start asking for you to do shows(paid shows). then you can use that money to head to a legit studio, and possibly pay for your singles to be mastered as well as your full length album.

no reason to blow money you dont have for mixing/ mastering. when your songs aint catching a buzz.