We always talk about producers, but did you know top mixing engineers charge $4,000-$5000+ per mix?

[rapbeats]

I agree. In the 80's and 90s, we listened to tracks with horrible sound mixing, dubbed 3x over off a stolen recording from a tape recorder - the vocals were choppy and scratchy at best, beat was all over the place, fading in and out at random...not due to supposed to sounding like that...and sometimes inaudible. We still loved the song, and hearing the later finished and mixed version did not enhance or detract from your love for it.

exactly. some how. some way dre found out how to make those kicks knock without it cutting thru the mids of the music or the vocal recording. he found the heat beat of the drum kick and kept only that. and turned it up. got rid of everything else. then layer it, and layered it again.

 

[Mac Casper]

didnt you just say dre is not a good example for whats possible replying to my other post? lol, then you come back showing us that mostly dre produced/mixed albums are the best sounding hiphop albums.lol

unless your point is calling out the people doing the mastering (big bass). i knew that when i was a kid checking those credits. i was like wait a second. this dude has that magic touch. he has to. after listening to a dre album. you have to turn the CD over or pull out the bucklet to find out what the hell is in this great sonic production. its like reading the ingredients on your favorite bag of chips, or your favorite ice cream, etc. the ish is so good. you immediately turn it over and start trying to find out what on earth is this great stuff made of. So yes in that regard you are correct. if you see these top named engineers on any album, no matter what the artist says. he/she is on a major. unless said artist is the son/daughter of an ultra rich entertainer.

Perhaps you had trouble interpreting what I meant by that

I shall elaborate


to say Dr. Dre is not a good standard for what is possible . . I'm going to need the post I quoted of yours . . . to put this all in context but basically


Barry Bonds hits 73 home runs one year

If somebody asks you

"Yo, how many home runs do baseball players hit in a season"

You wouldn't be like "Yo, they do around 70"

Dr. Dre's work is an exception. Dr. Dre's work is the ceiling . . not the floor. Do you get what I'm saying now?

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

the reason people who listen to your stuff says it sounds better than most if not all other local no name acts is because most of these dudes mixtapes sound like trash sonically. lets keep it 150. and thats not to say their rapping is trash or the beat is trash. but the overall sound is garbage.

#1 if you have a professional level mic with decent pop filter and acoustics around the mic to some what simulate an actual pro booth. you're 50% there when it comes to everyday people listening to you. especially youngins from this era(They dont know any better, they grew up on a compressed sound called a mp3). If you can somewhat gadge the appropriate amt of compression to put on the vocals as well as the volume of your vocals in comparison to the beat. you're 80% there, when it comes to sounding better than most non professionals.

but i'll tell you off the top. that song above you posted. your vocals are sitting on top of the music. i can tell the music is probably some lower quality mp3 file. your voice should be more in the pocket of the music. now that is also a choice. some people want their voices to sit some what on top of the music. while others like it blended more. to me it depends on the vibe of the song.

people will tell you "well hiphop songs usually sound like ..." but truth is, you can do your own thing and it still sounds professionally done."

But here's the reality of it all. You dont have the money to pay for the real beat thats not in mp3 form. so go ahead and make it sound as good as you can. and see if you can catch a hit. then once they start asking for you to do shows(paid shows). then you can use that money to head to a legit studio, and possibly pay for your singles to be mastered as well as your full length album.

no reason to blow money you dont have for mixing/ mastering. when your songs aint catching a buzz.

that makes perfect sense... the 50/80 rule... i got the mid pro level setup... i can get my voice "right" on the beat to at least hear what i like

but i do see exactly what you mean.. by my voice being on top of the beat..

that's the one thing i struggle with more than anything.. and it's what i mean when i say, get it to sound like a real cd



seems like when i hear most songs... i can hear all the lyrics and the voice, without losing certain words, or the hooks being extra loud, or the beat being too low

with mine it's like i'm always adjusting to find that area or balance for my voice.. and it's always too loud and not enough beat or the opposite







as for my producer... i don't think, he thinks, i'll be able to do shyt with a tracked beat

he's made beats professionally... even has a gold album.. but before he got there, he'd do them all off the head on FL studio... so he really never even tracked them himself or sent them out as such

now i'm not sure how he does it with pro artists, but that's why i get mp3s. i'm going to talk to him about that too

 

[rapbeats]

that makes perfect sense... the 50/80 rule... i got the mid pro level setup... i can get my voice "right" on the beat to at least hear what i like

but i do see exactly what you mean.. by my voice being on top of the beat..

that's the one thing i struggle with more than anything.. and it's what i mean when i say, get it to sound like a real cd



seems like when i hear most songs... i can hear all the lyrics and the voice, without losing certain words, or the hooks being extra loud, or the beat being too low

with mine it's like i'm always adjusting to find that area or balance for my voice.. and it's always too loud and not enough beat or the opposite







as for my producer... i don't think, he thinks, i'll be able to do shyt with a tracked beat

he's made beats professionally... even has a gold album.. but before he got there, he'd do them all off the head on FL studio... so he really never even tracked them himself or sent them out as such

now i'm not sure how he does it with pro artists, but that's why i get mp3s. i'm going to talk to him about that too

even though he's a pro now(your producer) he still may be just a beat maker that makes pro money. which is lovely. cant knock the hustle.
i mean there's a difference between a PRODUCER and a dude who can make a hot beat.
some people are great at making hot beats, then handing them over to other pros. to take their mix to the next level with the professional artist. you need the tracked out version. so you can mess with the levels of each bit of instrumentation/sound effects, reverb, etc.

you're not supposed to put your vocals over a mastered beat. thats pretty much what you're doing. the beat is complete and then you are jumping on it on the back end. sure that can work if you send it to a mastering house to work miracles. but we just stated you dont have that kind of DOe yet. so the truth is, the least you can do is get the full song tracked out. then put your vocal track in their and start tweeking accordingly. but truth is, you need him there with you. because he made the music. you need to know how did he see it sounding when he made the beat. is he ok with that high pitch sound effect being turned down? or is that a necessity for him. just the little things.but something may have to be turned down or reverbed or un reverbed, etc. in order for your vocals to sit right there nicely.

 

[rapbeats]

Perhaps you had trouble interpreting what I meant by that

I shall elaborate


to say Dr. Dre is not a good standard for what is possible . . I'm going to need the post I quoted of yours . . . to put this all in context but basically


Barry Bonds hits 73 home runs one year

If somebody asks you

"Yo, how many home runs do baseball players hit in a season"

You wouldn't be like "Yo, they do around 70"

Dr. Dre's work is an exception. Dr. Dre's work is the ceiling . . not the floor. Do you get what I'm saying now?

i see where you're coming from. i used dre as an example to say, it can be done. there is a way to have that KNOCK and crisp sound all in one.

the truth is this. because of what DRE did on 2001. everyone's sound was elevated. same thing happened with the chronic, snoops album and pacs all eyez on me.

that changed the industry. hiphop albums started to sound like super high end albums sonically. east coast, west, and south.

then, the mp3's came. then the mixtape game came. and then pc aka home studio recording came in. and it was a wrap. there went the quality.

if you want that dre quality. well someone has to pull it off or get close to it and blow up. then everyone will mimic that artist.

the truth is. odds are that sound will come out of the west coast. there's a reason dre had that sound and no one else except for bad boy could come close back then.

the south has always had a west coast flavor just slower(we're not talking the party songs.but the slower tempo riding music.)
but that south music was always a bit more muffled.

the east wasnt really worried about quality like that. they were worried about being heard. so their vocals were on point. but the beat from a mixing/mastering standpoint would be semi suspect. which is why those albums dont stand that sonic test of time. in addition they were into sampling. and way back in the day they used certain machines to do that work for them. so the sample they were getting wasnt even pristine once they got thru with it. it was somewhat muffled as well.

the west coast came from a place where we were playing midwestern old funk/soul music from our parents day. This meant we loved the instrumentation. we sampled it too early on. but we realized that didnt capture the sonic sound of it. and that money from sampling was killing us. so better have someone replay certain parts and have their own twist to it. that replaying of the music makes everything that much more fresher/crisper to work with coming mixing/ mastering time. vs messing with a bunch of already mastered samples. where you are RE compressing, RE-reverbing, ... you get my point.

unless you're shooting for a grimy wu tang sound. your best bet as a home producer is to buy high end sounds(vsti's). obviously some will choose to download them. but you get the point. but thats expensive if you are not going the download route.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

even though he's a pro now(your producer) he still may be just a beat maker that makes pro money. which is lovely. cant knock the hustle.
i mean there's a difference between a PRODUCER and a dude who can make a hot beat.
some people are great at making hot beats, then handing them over to other pros. to take their mix to the next level with the professional artist. you need the tracked out version. so you can mess with the levels of each bit of instrumentation/sound effects, reverb, etc.

you're not supposed to put your vocals over a mastered beat. thats pretty much what you're doing. the beat is complete and then you are jumping on it on the back end. sure that can work if you send it to a mastering house to work miracles. but we just stated you dont have that kind of DOe yet. so the truth is, the least you can do is get the full song tracked out. then put your vocal track in their and start tweeking accordingly. but truth is, you need him there with you. because he made the music. you need to know how did he see it sounding when he made the beat. is he ok with that high pitch sound effect being turned down? or is that a necessity for him. just the little things.but something may have to be turned down or reverbed or un reverbed, etc. in order for your vocals to sit right there nicely.

all of this really shows why you need a PRODUCER and not just a beat maker

he's definitely a beat maker... me and him been cool from day 1... he can hear a beat and make it from scratch, with nothing more than hearing it for 5 mins... then crank out that full beat in another 15.. shyt was amazing... his beats are crazy

but i do think when he was deep in the game, it was more, "you do the beat, ok now send me the file, now _____ is gonna work in studio with the artist, etc"


and that's definitely what i'm missing... mostly it's me at home.. or if i go in studio its me and the engineer


i think 90% of unsigned rappers leave out the actual real producer in their sessions... i know i've never been present with anyone and see an engineer AND the producer there

 

[DirtyMoney]

The mix on Lupe's first album was bad.. vocals

 

[Mac Casper]

i see where you're coming from. i used dre as an example to say, it can be done. there is a way to have that KNOCK and crisp sound all in one.

the truth is this. because of what DRE did on 2001. everyone's sound was elevated. same thing happened with the chronic, snoops album and pacs all eyez on me.

that changed the industry. hiphop albums started to sound like super high end albums sonically. east coast, west, and south.

then, the mp3's came. then the mixtape game came. and then pc aka home studio recording came in. and it was a wrap. there went the quality.

if you want that dre quality. well someone has to pull it off or get close to it and blow up. then everyone will mimic that artist.

the truth is. odds are that sound will come out of the west coast. there's a reason dre had that sound and no one else except for bad boy could come close back then.

the south has always had a west coast flavor just slower(we're not talking the party songs.but the slower tempo riding music.)
but that south music was always a bit more muffled.

the east wasnt really worried about quality like that. they were worried about being heard. so their vocals were on point. but the beat from a mixing/mastering standpoint would be semi suspect. which is why those albums dont stand that sonic test of time. in addition they were into sampling. and way back in the day they used certain machines to do that work for them. so the sample they were getting wasnt even pristine once they got thru with it. it was somewhat muffled as well.

the west coast came from a place where we were playing midwestern old funk/soul music from our parents day. This meant we loved the instrumentation. we sampled it too early on. but we realized that didnt capture the sonic sound of it. and that money from sampling was killing us. so better have someone replay certain parts and have their own twist to it. that replaying of the music makes everything that much more fresher/crisper to work with coming mixing/ mastering time. vs messing with a bunch of already mastered samples. where you are RE compressing, RE-reverbing, ... you get my point.

unless you're shooting for a grimy wu tang sound. your best bet as a home producer is to buy high end sounds(vsti's). obviously some will choose to download them. but you get the point. but thats expensive if you are not going the download route.

But who else can have their drums come in that hot without distorting the mix?

 

[Tunez]

That's $5,000 for a single song?

Yup

No wonder why Banks mixtapes have bad mixing

 

[Turbulent]

mixing is one of my fav. parts of creating music....i love the entire process and you learn something every time you do it.

i hate it cause it's headaches to me. kind of like creating and figuring out a puzzle at the same time


but it's a craft in itself and respect the fukk out of sound engineers/mixers.

 

[Turbulent]

It's not just you. Hip hop at its core is gritty. It simply makes no sense for it to sound super clean. Takes the feeling out of the song.

I hate the sound of super clean stuff.

it depends. Quik/Dre/some of Puffy shyt sounds clean as fukk and i love it.

but i also love alchemist's stuff, old Rza stuff, old Muggs stuff, bomb squad, etc. Salaam Remi who can kind of go either way, same with Just Blaze. same with The Roots. i love it all. sure that sounds more "traditional" but it can all be dope to me.

 

[rapbeats]

But who else can have their drums come in that hot without distorting the mix?

today? ... no one. lol. back then. like i said. Bad boy could pull it off.

But you have to realize. what dre was doing was also what he WANTED to do. thats the sound HE was going for. Puff, the south, midwest were not going for that KIND of knock. there's a reason we call RZA one of the best to ever do it. It's because he created a sound HE was trying to create. Gutter, Grimy, low res (8 bit). It's why its the most new york sounding music of all time if you ask one of us outsiders. it's what we think new yawk would sound like.

 

[rapbeats]

No wonder why Banks mixtapes have bad mixing

you cant be out there paying dudes real money for a free album. you MIGHT throw some change if the beat makers are known. but if they're not. they might get a little something but most likely they are getting a look. They are getting a chance to make a beat for a well known, platinum selling mc named banks. that could catapult their career. that goes on their resume "I did 2 beats for banks"
now these lower level rappers with low level deals that are unknown or no name dudes with a few dollars to spare. you hit them up for some real money cause you have a real rapper on your resume.

 

[OGBobbyJohnson]

No Love For Bob Power?

 

[C.G.Jung777]

First Jackson Effort Rejected, New One Not Ready | Fox News

The Gawd MJ in 5.1 SACD ? I don't know if I can ever forgive him for not releasing those...though I know he hated so Sony so I can respect the game though.