We still pretending the Warriors didn't make a mistake drafting Wiseman over Lamelo or nah

[Don Homer]

Franz is a good role player but he isn’t going to end up better than Mobley or Cade. He and Barnes are in the same area Imo.

Fair. I'm just very high on Franz. To get a player that good with the 8th pick is spectacular

 

[Shadow King]

Y'all overrate the fukk out of LaMelo on here...

 

[Damnshow]

Kuminga has a higher ceiling if he can put the IQ and shooting level up

Franz Wagner himself has a high ceiling. He was lighting it up for germans in Eurobasket. That guy is no joke.

 

[Don Homer]

What? You say that like Malik monk is prime Jordan….. ‘Last year was his ceiling’ yea no shyt 50/40/90 is everybody’s ceiling

He can regress from that and still be a high level player, with an outside shot at being a starting PG somewhere.

Y’all gotta stop being so cocky like you can tell the future based on a players limited role. The rockets don’t know James harden would be James harden….the nuggets didnt know young Chauncey Billups would be Chauncey billups…ironically GS, no one saw all star 2 way Andrew wiggins coming…no one knew Austin Reaves was that nice until Russ leaves, etc etc

Bottom line you don’t know. You can’t always tell from a players current role. What the common denominator is tho: if a guy shows he has talent, 9/10 it ain’t a fluke if you give him a bigger/clearer role and/or surround him with proper talent, he’s gonna thrive. Poole has shown that level of talent. And Kuminga and Moody are TWENTY

but he's better than Poole. Poole just was fortunate to be on a contender. Monk was on charlotte. Poole's minutes shrunk every round of the playoffs. He was a surprise during the 2022 run. Now that people are keying in on him, he looks lost.

The rockets actually DID know James Harden would be that guy. That's why Morey immediately paid Harden when OKC wouldnt. Morey been high on Harden since he was in OKC

i've seen enough to know these young guys aint it. A core of Poole/Kuminga/Moody/Wiseman will having you picking in the lottery every single season. Kuminga was in Franz's role when he was in Summer League, the G League Ignite, and in Eurobasket. Look as his efficiency and AST/Turnover ratio in all three leagues.

 

[Don Homer]

Franz Wagner himself has a high ceiling. He was lighting it up for germans in Eurobasket. That guy is no joke.

meanwhile Kuminga was scoring on terrible efficiency and losing. That's why I don't agree with the "Franz is getting 30 minutes a game" talking point. Kuminga was in that same situation in the G-League ignite, Summer League, and Eurobasket. His efficiency was terrible in all three leagues. Look up Kuminga's FG% and TS% in the G League ignite.

 

[WMG the 2nd]

Fair. I'm just very high on Franz. To get a player that good with the 8th pick is spectacular

Nah he’s great I just rather bet on Cade Mobley and Green as well being elite. Franz I think is a top five player of the class though definitely

 

[Don Homer]

Nah he’s great I just rather bet on Cade Mobley and Green as well being elite. Franz I think is a top five player of the class though definitely

ur prolly right. I need to see Cade play more. Dude needs to get his health in order. And shyt, mobley just made 1st team all-defense as a sophomore.

So yeah, including accolades it's gotta be, in any order:
Cade
Mobley
Barnes
Giddey
Franz

Kuminga aint seeing those guys at all.not even close. And it's not even about the minutes. He doesnt have the skill or the feel they do. if you take those guys and replace them with kuminga, their teams will be worse.

 

[Braman]

but he's better than Poole. Poole just was fortunate to be on a contender. Monk was on charlotte. Poole's minutes shrunk every round of the playoffs. He was a surprise during the 2022 run. Now that people are keying in on him, he looks lost.

The rockets actually DID know James Harden would be that guy. That's why Morey immediately paid Harden when OKC wouldnt. Morey been high on Harden since he was in OKC

i've seen enough to know these young guys aint it. A core of Poole/Kuminga/Moody/Wiseman will having you picking in the lottery every single season. Kuminga was in Franz's role when he was in Summer League, the G League Ignite, and in Eurobasket. Look as his efficiency and AST/Turnover ratio in all three leagues.

All these statements are wild. You’re using completely arbitrary personally biased takes and stating them as fact. Like how you trying to say monk wasn’t good bc he played ona a bad team. That’s when you supposed to shine.

I’m still taking Poole over Monk. Monk is a 6th man 2 guard. His role is etched in stone. Poole on the flip is a playmaker enough that he could also run the 1 which immediately makes him more valuable.

Like you do know Poole just averaged 20 this year right?? You do know Monk been in the league 5 years right? And played in LA last year not charlotte. So you’re proving MY point that situation matters. As do expectations. Poole is ridiculed bc he’s trying to win a chip and the standard is 4 they’ve already one. Monk has no pressure whatsoever

As far as that ‘core’, again, expectations. If you’re the Magic with a core of Kuminga, Moody, and Wiseman you’d be ecstatic. And them dudes would be getting burn and putting up numbers

Oh and lol @ trying to downplay what Poole did. Thats the great thing about numbers they don’t lie they don’t have a narrative. 17 on 50/40/90 in a title run you can’t ‘debate’ that away as luck my guy

 

[Don Homer]

All these statements are wild. You’re using completely arbitrary personally biased takes and stating them as fact. Like how you trying to say monk wasn’t good bc he played ona a bad team. That’s when you supposed to shine.

I’m still taking Poole over Monk. Monk is a 6th man 2 guard. His role is etched in stone. Poole on the flip is a playmaker enough that he could also run the 1 which immediately makes him more valuable.

Like you do know Poole just averaged 20 this year right?? You do know Monk been in the league 5 years right? And played in LA last year not charlotte. So you’re proving MY point that situation matters. As do expectations. Poole is ridiculed bc he’s trying to win a chip and the standard is 4 they’ve already one. Monk has no pressure whatsoever

As far as that ‘core’, again, expectations. If you’re the Magic with a core of Kuminga, Moody, and Wiseman you’d be ecstatic. And them dudes would be getting burn and putting up numbers

Oh and lol @ trying to downplay what Poole did. Thats the great thing about numbers they don’t lie they don’t have a narrative. 17 on 50/40/90 in a title run you can’t ‘debate’ that away as luck my guy

Monk was always good, but he's on not only a bad team, but bad franchise. Batum's career was close to being over in charlotte until he revived it.

Poole has a 1.4:1 turnover ratio. If you wanna put him at the 1 and run point, have at it. But he was leading the league in turnovers for much of the season

Poole averaged 20 because he got a starting role since Steph was injured. Off the bench he averaged 15 on below league average efficiency. Monk averaged 13 on better efficiency. Poole is being ridiculed because he's playing AWFUL basketball. He doesnt even have to be as good as he was last season. The issue is he's regressing HARD. to the point where he is shooting below 35%FG across 2 playoff series. THATS the issue. nikka is abysmal. Even if he wasnt on a team trying to compete for a chip. If he was on ANY team in the playoffs, that's unacceptable

It wasn't luck. He just hit his ceiling. Think of this season as a regression to the mean. He had flunk shooting, it happens to tons of players. Marcus Morris led the league in 3p% in 2021 and hasnt come close to that since. It was an outlier, considering Poole's entire career. There's a reason why everyone his age is outplaying him this season.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

All these statements are wild. You’re using completely arbitrary personally biased takes and stating them as fact.

This is hilarious coming from you. The lack of self-awareness. Lord have mercy.

 

[Volt]

Bad take.

1- Who cares what Poole and Moody would be doing. Melo is the superior player.

2- You don’t draft for need at #2 overall.

And that’s the warriors problem. They’re still accommodating to the old model and old players. The minute I saw Draymond pulling wiseman aside and coaching him I said aww nah that’s not gon work. It’s like if you start a job and you got high goals and they got the 10 year career worker who’s never been promoted mentoring you. Like bruh I don’t wanna be you They got the #2 pick trying to make him the new Draymond. He’s overqualified for that.

So let me get this straight. A team balls deep in cap hell, who can't sign legit options because they're completely hamstrung, drafts the thought-to-be best player for their position in need and that's a bad move?

There was no reason for them to not risk that, the payoff was arguably higher than Melo working and them running into the same stupid log jam and having no paint presence besides Looney problems they got going on now.

Also, let's not act like Draymond is a complete idiot when it comes to ball iq. He's not the guy you wanna take shooting lessons from, but he definitely got a lot to teach about defense and passing.

I

Franz is playing 30 minutes a game and starting and allowed to play thru mistakes. You honestly don’t think Kuminga couldn’t do the same if he played for Orlando? You honestly don’t think Wagner would be struggling for minutes bc he doesn’t ‘play the right way’ if he was in GS?

The problem is GS. They’re stuck on an old model in a league where there’s no defense and 19 year olds are coming in getting buckets

You think Shaeden Sharpe just magically ‘knows the game’. No, he’s just as clueless as Kuminga. Except Portland let’s him keep it simple and go get a bucket.

Like what are the odds Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody, and Poole all can’t play…it’s not them, it’s the expectations. All 4 of them will/would thrive elsewhere

Now that is the problem.

Kerr didn't play the young prospects during the regular season when he could afford to let the kids catch some Ls to learn from. Now they're not playoff-ready.

Experience matters. They didn't need superstars out of them these playoffs, just competent role-players that can hustle and hold leads. The starting lineup can still put in the brunt of the work in a playoff game.

Also, it's not like we can say the Warriors draft like ass when Steph, Klay, Dray, and Looney were drafted by them. That's damn near the whole starting 5.

 

[Braman]

So let me get this straight. A team balls deep in cap hell, who can't sign legit options because they're completely hamstrung, drafts the thought-to-be best player for their position in need and that's a bad move?

There was no reason for them to not risk that, the payoff was arguably higher than Melo working and them running into the same stupid log jam and having no paint presence besides Looney problems they got going on now.

Also, let's not act like Draymond is a complete idiot when it comes to ball iq. He's not the guy you wanna take shooting lessons from, but he definitely got a lot to teach about defense and passing.

Well, clearly it was the wrong move so I dont know what we’re arguing

And they’re in cap hell bc they operated emotionally, paying for nostalgia. Draymond is a role player making 25 mil/year. That doesn’t come without consequence

 

[Volt]

Well, clearly it was the wrong move so I dont know what we’re arguing

A gamble that doesn't pay off doesn't make it a bad move at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.

It's like saying that whoever put money on the Bucks beating Miami these playoffs were idiots. The smart money was on Milwaukee winning, but shyt happens.

 

[Braman]

Monk was always good, but he's on not only a bad team, but bad franchise. Batum's career was close to being over in charlotte until he revived it.

Poole has a 1.4:1 turnover ratio. If you wanna put him at the 1 and run point, have at it. But he was leading the league in turnovers for much of the season

Poole averaged 20 because he got a starting role since Steph was injured. Off the bench he averaged 15 on below league average efficiency. Monk averaged 13 on better efficiency. Poole is being ridiculed because he's playing AWFUL basketball. He doesnt even have to be as good as he was last season. The issue is he's regressing HARD. to the point where he is shooting below 35%FG across 2 playoff series. THATS the issue. nikka is abysmal. Even if he wasnt on a team trying to compete for a chip. If he was on ANY team in the playoffs, that's unacceptable

It wasn't luck. He just hit his ceiling. Think of this season as a regression to the mean. He had flunk shooting, it happens to tons of players. Marcus Morris led the league in 3p% in 2021 and hasnt come close to that since. It was an outlier, considering Poole's entire career. There's a reason why everyone his age is outplaying him this season.

Dude, Malik monk is the WORST player to use, he’s proving MY point.

‘Monk was always good’. Says who?!? His first 3 years 34,33, and 28% from 3

What you MEAN to say is Monk always had talent …or showed flashed. You trying to avoid those types of words bc you know that’s exactly what Poole has done. But not just regular season, playoffs too.

So Im still not sure why you say ‘ceiling’. t’s like saying Bubble Murray was his ceiling…or bubble Donovan was his ceiling….or watching Booker right now and say ‘that’s his ceiling’. Does that make any sense whatsoever? No.

You can’t fluke your way thru a whole playoff bruh. It does not happen. Name me another case of a guy going lights out then just oops it was a fluke he’s trash.

So the more logical explanation for him playing poorly is the situation, not his talent (JUST LIKE MONK)... Let’s not forget he got slumped by the outsized heart and pulse of the franchise either. There’s a lot of internal stuff in GS and way higher expectations

 

[Don Homer]

Dude, Malik monk is the WORST player to use, he’s proving MY point.

‘Monk was always good’. Says who?!? His first 3 years 34,33, and 28% from 3

What you MEAN to say is Monk always had talent …or showed flashed. You trying to avoid those types of words bc you know that’s exactly what Poole has done. But not just regular season, playoffs too.

So Im still not sure why you say ‘ceiling’. t’s like saying Bubble Murray was his ceiling…or bubble Donovan was his ceiling….or watching Booker right now and say ‘that’s his ceiling’. Does that make any sense whatsoever? No.

You can’t fluke your way thru a whole playoff bruh. It does not happen. Name me another case of a guy going lights out then just oops it was a fluke he’s trash. What usually happens is the opposite, the playoffs expose you bc defense is tougher

So the more logical explanation for him playing poorly is the situation, not his talent (JUST LIKE MONK)... Let’s not forget he got slumped by the outsized heart and pulse of the franchise either. There’s. A lot of internal stuff in GS

So yea, I’m still high on Poole. There’s no way you can look around the league at guys with huge green lights who can’t do nothin else but get buckets and think Poole can’t be just as good.

Poole may be good. But he's not good for this team in the short term or long term. He wants a larger role, but he's not going to jump steph and klay. He's not good enough for it

I think he falls into the same archetype as lou will and jamal crawford: score, and then when the playoffs come, struggle to score. Jamal and Lou must have been in multiple poor situations because they flamed out everywhere the same exact way.