nah, hes bad. when our tallest player is our softest we have a problem. just like how the nets did better with brook lopez injured last year. olynyk gets his points on open jumpers and misdirection type plays in the lane that look goofy. our best back to the basket player is prob sully who is 6'7-6'8. trade olynyk now..see what we really have in zeller..who i think can be really good if he bulks up a bit more (a year or two)...then just draft a center who can block shots. TBH even a washed up dalembert wouldnt have been a bad signing for this squad.
What Do You Believe In...7th or Hell?: The OFFICIAL 2014-15 Boston Celtics Thread
- Thread starter William F. Russell
- Start date
nah, hes bad. when our tallest player is our softest we have a problem. just like how the nets did better with brook lopez injured last year. olynyk gets his points on open jumpers and misdirection type plays in the lane that look goofy. our best back to the basket player is prob sully who is 6'7-6'8. trade olynyk now..see what we really have in zeller..who i think can be really good if he bulks up a bit more (a year or two)...then just draft a center who can block shots. TBH even a washed up dalembert wouldnt have been a bad signing for this squad.
I don't think we'll be bad enough to have a shot at Towns/Okafor/Turner without luck, but Danny needs to be aiming for Willie Cauley-Stein from Kentucky. Could be our center for the future.
Idk how to feel about Zeller. He's played well since he got the starting job but I don't see him as the longterm solution for us at the 5.
c/s cauley stein
i think zeller could be a very solid backup/first big off the bench and injury sub if needed on a good team. has great hands, scoring instinct, shot selection, decent defensively and plays smart.
what matters is that ainge made a great move to get him, hes young with potential and good enough to be our best option right now..more than deserving of an extended look to see what his ceiling is. id try to lock him up for a few years on the cheaps..have him hit the weights to be more imposing in the post and see what happens. at the moment, i dont see him being an anchor or franchise center but at the same time there arent many of those anymore anyway and teams have gotten by without one. with the right personnel around him i think he could possibly be a starter on a good team and if our option is to keep him at the 5 for cheap and use our money elsewhere i wouldnt be opposed to it. if we cant land a legitimate, huge upgrade at the 5 (Big Al comeback?) then im cool with him for now.
my main issue is that stevens is all about metrics..and its not that entirely..but regarding zeller we need to be able to see what he does with different players in. stevens has linked him in the rotation to rondo primarily and rondo is more than 50% on the way out IMO so thats not a good look long term. he and rondo do play well together though.
agreed. either way we need another good big or two and worst comes to worst they compete for the starting job or play similar minutes depending on game flow and rotations
olynyk is not that guy. hes empty stats and not only looks like, but plays like a p*ssy for a near 7 footer. he competes a bit but hes a pushover and is poor in slow paced half court sets and would get abused in playoff basketball
Rondo's such a great defender that's why on average the player he defends shoots 3% higher than their normal average when he's guarding them right? Rondo was a great defender at one time, but his defense has regressed over the years. He's a matador defender. And don't reference some stupid ass All-Defensive team award like you always do because those shyts are meaningless. fukking James Harden got an all-defensive team vote last year.
PER will tell you who's putting up better numbers though. And Lowry is putting up significantly better numbers than Rondo and better numbers than Rondo has ever had. Lowry last season and so far this season has put up better numbers than Rondo did in his very best season. And furthermore, I never claimed that PER evaluated a player's defensive impact so stop with that shyt.
Reading comprehension, I wasn't comparing their numbers from last season. I said Lowry's numbers last season were better than any season Rondo has ever had.
I love how you conveniently left out the FT percentages, where Lowry has shot 81% the last two seasons while Rondo shot 63% last year and is shooting 32% this year. Rondo is literally shooting worse than DeAndre Jordan & Andre Drummond from the free throw line this year but you think he deserves the max or close to it
The gap between Rondo and Lowry as scorers is significantly, and I do mean SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the gap as playmakers, rebounders and defenders. Lowry's coach isn't benching him in the final minutes of a game because he's scared the other team will send him to the free throw line like Stevens had to do a couple games ago.
Once again, I don't give a damn what Rondo & Lowry were doing in 2010, that his little to no relevance on how Rondo should get paid from 2015 to 2019. Do you think Deron Williams is worth his contract just because he was great in 4 years ago?
Lol at y'all always using him being a pass first PG as an excuse for his shortcomings. There's plenty of other pass-first PG's in the league that also don't manage to be the worst scoring point guard in the league and a liability down the stretch in 4th quarters because their team is basically playing 4 on 5 offense
Man, your hate for Rondo runs deep.
Also, keep in mind that Rondo isn't playing near his best, because he's coming off of injuries. We're seeing Lowry at his best.
You focus on his scoring when everybody concedes that Rondo is not a scorer. He's a pass-first PG. Lowry, who's a score-first PG, should be scoring more than Rondo. And I like how you didn't address how poor a shooter Lowry is, even after I provided you the statistics.
Rondo is a better passer and play-maker than Lowry. He's the league leader in assists and is the best at putting his teammates in positions to score. To argue otherwise is just plain dumb. Rondo's virtually the Jason Kidd of today's league.
Moreover, Lowry's best season (this season) is NOT better than Rondo's best season (2011-2012). Rondo beats Lowry in every statistical category, save scoring and FT% (which ultimately factors into scoring). This season, Rondo is a nightly triple double threat. Lowry? Just look at the stats.
Rondo is also a great one-on-one/perimeter defender. He's certainly a better defender than Lowry. The only reason it appears that his defense regressed was because of his ACL injury. He obviously was rusty upon his return. He's still working his way back into form but his defense has been good. And I will mention his All Defensive teams because they are a valid indicator of a player's defensive prowess. Just because James Harden got ONE VOTE for ONE All Defensive team, it doesn't take away the legitimacy of the honor. He ultimately was never named to an All Defensive team. No matter how you cut it, Rondo's been named in 4 teams. He's an elite defender for a PG.
Moreover, you act like Rondo's prime was 4 years ago when, in fact, he's still in his prime and the reason his accomplishments/honors seem so distant to you is because he virtually missed last season. Intelligent basketball fans look at the entire picture, not just how the player is performing this season. Your comparison to Deron is off-base because Deron has clearly regressed within the past 4 years whereas Rondo has improved within the last 4 years (barring his ACL injury). Again, dude is the league leader in assists and triple doubles on a non-contending/non-playoff team.
Furthermore, PER is a flawed way to measure a player's impact on BOTH ends of the floor. The fact that Hollinger (the CREATOR of PER) admitted that the PER is heavily flawed deads your argument. Again, we're comparing the OVERALL games of Rondo and Lowry, so using PER as a barometer of any sort is idiotic. My point stands.
We can agree to disagree about whether Rondo is worth $12M but I GUARANTEE that he'll get paid more than that, whether he's still a member of the Celtics or not. No team would pay more than $12M on Lowry.
You're hyping up Lowry based on how he's performing in the first 20 games of the season. You're also justifying your refusal on not giving Rondo more than $12M based on the first 20 games of the season (even though he's the LEAGUE LEADER IN ASSISTS and TRIPLE DOUBLES and he's on pace to make history).
If we were to go by your logic, neither Kevin Durant nor Tony Parker would be worth $12M based on their performance THIS SEASON. Stop being obtuse. The player's recent history is vital in management's decision to award contracts. I can see that you're very short-sighted and are a prisoner of the moment.
But agree to disagree.
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Man, your hate for Rondo runs deep.
I don't hate Rondo at all, I actually like him. But the difference is that unlike you stans I can evaluate his performance objectively and I don't feel like I have to defend everything he does.
Yes he is a pass-first PG, but just because you're a pass-first doesn't give you a "pass" for being arguably the worst scoring guard in the league. Chris Paul can still give you 18-20 PPG, John Wall can give you 18-20 PPG, Mike Conley can give you 16-18 PPG, Jason Kidd in his best days was averaging around 18 a game, yet Rondo is out there struggling to score 8 a game.
When did I say Lowry was a better passer and playmaker?
Except Kidd was better at everything than Rondo. Rondo on his best day is a homeless man's Jason Kidd. Kidd carried a team where his coach was Byron Scott and his other starters were Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin and Todd MacCulloch to the Finals. While Rondo struggles to get to the playoffs unless he has HOFers on his team.
Couldn't care less about Rondo stat-padding his way to triple doubles while the team still loses.
Rondo was a great defender. He's been coasting on his reputation for years now.
You're the one that brought up ad keeps referencing Rondo's stats from 2010 & 2011. All I'm saying is I care more about what he's doing now than what he did 3-4 years ago. Rondo has some nice playoff runs a few years ago, that's cool. But this is 2014 and I'm not here for paying Rondo based on what he did 3-4 years ago.
Yeah he leads the league in assists while the Celtics are the #19 offense and he leads the league in triple doubles but the Celtics have a losing record in those games. Translation: Yeah those things are nice in theory but he doesn't have as big of an impact as you think.
And the teams that give Rondo a max contract or close to it will be looking dumb as shyt in a few years, I'll GUARANTEE you that.
Lowry was fantastic last year too. I wouldn't pay Rondo that type of money because his play style doesn't warrant it. I'm not here for giving max contracts to complementary players.
I wouldn't give Lowry more than $12 mil a year either and neither would I for Rondo, so what's your point?
Stop the bullshyt. Rondo has played all but one game this season while Durant has missed 17, it's not nearly the same. As far as Parker, he's playing at pretty much the same level he played at last year.
Meanwhile, Rondo is on pace to have his worst overall statistical season since his rookie year but as long as he can pad his assist numbers and get some meaningless triple doubles let's throw the max at him
I don't hate Rondo at all, I actually like him. But the difference is that unlike you stans I can evaluate his performance objectively and I don't feel like I have to defend everything he does.
Yes he is a pass-first PG, but just because you're a pass-first doesn't give you a "pass" for being arguably the worst scoring guard in the league. Chris Paul can still give you 18-20 PPG, John Wall can give you 18-20 PPG, Mike Conley can give you 16-18 PPG, Jason Kidd in his best days was averaging around 18 a game, yet Rondo is out there struggling to score 8 a game.
When did I say Lowry was a better passer and playmaker?
Except Kidd was better at everything than Rondo. Rondo on his best day is a homeless man's Jason Kidd. Kidd carried a team where his coach was Byron Scott and his other starters were Kerry Kittles, Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin and Todd MacCulloch to the Finals. While Rondo struggles to get to the playoffs unless he has HOFers on his team.
Couldn't care less about Rondo stat-padding his way to triple doubles while the team still loses.
Rondo was a great defender. He's been coasting on his reputation for years now.
You're the one that brought up ad keeps referencing Rondo's stats from 2010 & 2011. All I'm saying is I care more about what he's doing now than what he did 3-4 years ago. Rondo has some nice playoff runs a few years ago, that's cool. But this is 2014 and I'm not here for paying Rondo based on what he did 3-4 years ago.
Yeah he leads the league in assists while the Celtics are the #19 offense and he leads the league in triple doubles but the Celtics have a losing record in those games. Translation: Yeah those things are nice in theory but he doesn't have as big of an impact as you think.
And the teams that give Rondo a max contract or close to it will be looking dumb as shyt in a few years, I'll GUARANTEE you that.
Lowry was fantastic last year too. I wouldn't pay Rondo that type of money because his play style doesn't warrant it. I'm not here for giving max contracts to complementary players.
I wouldn't give Lowry more than $12 mil a year either and neither would I for Rondo, so what's your point?
Stop the bullshyt. Rondo has played all but one game this season while Durant has missed 17, it's not nearly the same. As far as Parker, he's playing at pretty much the same level he played at last year.
Meanwhile, Rondo is on pace to have his worst overall statistical season since his rookie year but as long as he can pad his assist numbers and get some meaningless triple doubles let's throw the max at him
Typical
For a thread of posters who supposedly love the Celtics, there are a lot of Rondo haters.
BlackStarLine
Pro
@SuperCoolP_Cal well as usual you taking care of business when I am away.
Yeah some C's fans hate them some Rondo. But its cool that me and you don't get caught up in the moment like they do.
He is still the best PG in the league @Gil Scott-Heroin. Give no fukks to what you (and other Rondo haters) say.
@SchoolboyC Rondo deserves max. Sorry and he will get it. No matter what you think about it.
Celtics still going to the playoffs too. Sorry yall.
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