What was the biggest reason for the drop off sales wise between Diddy’s 1st and 2nd albums?

[Mac Ten]

No Limit and Cash Money...



Lets be honest but the shiny suit thing was getting old.

Lets not act Diddy wanted his artists to be thugged out. It didnt help that Diddy was starting to be wild himself. Dude ran up in the offices and smacked Steve Stoute right on the head.

Plus...

the South needed their own folks to rally behind in the mainstream(Master P/No Limit/Baby & Slim/Cash Money)plus the streets on the East needed someone who was like Pac who could relate to them which is where DMX came in.

It's a blessing that Diddy didnt sign DMX or he would have ended up with the Bad Boy makeover wearing shiny suits like with Ma$e.

 

[Mac Ten]

Forever was trash and the lead single flopped.

Luckily, Diddy came back stronger with The Saga Continues.


I still cant believe that Diddy did Mark Curry wrong too.

Your writer should have been eating as well.

Punk azz Diddy didnt care about anyone other than himself.

 

[re'up]

That 36 month period was really part of the rapid expansion of hip hop, the game wasn't at all what it was in 1997. when Bad Boy ran the charts.

Puff also had a new team, with talented guys, like Shyne, G-Dep, but Rob was twisted by then, Mase was gone, Big was gone, Lox was gone,

So, not only had the game rapidly changed (X, Swizz, Juvenile) Puff tried to double down on essentially the same formula, and adding a good amount of his own "edgier" personality, thug shyt, showcase his new artists, (which mostly worked)

After Mase flopped, Big gone, 1999 had pretty much left Bad Boy way behind emerging Ruff Ryders (which had now signed The Lox) and Roc A Fella, which was gaining momentum with Jay going 5x and Bleek and Beanie Sigel

Puff flopped with PE 2000, but the remix with Shyne is fire, and the Mario Winas one, which is a direct nod to "I'll Be Missing You", he didn't have the right moment or artistic vision, but it's a great testament of 1999, in what would be Puff's last album pre December 1999 shooting.

The Twista collab is a solid sequel, the Jay track is pretty fire for it's time, the Nas and Beanie features, there's a pretty good posse cut with Mase and BR, the Winans collab, I Hear Voices, the Shyne feature, but it's a bloated, grandiose album, that is like a Blockbuster big budget movie sequel, that lacks the heart and timing of the original.

You can still catch me playing Satisfy You and rapping the lyrics, that was a hit, in 8th grade LOL

edit: that posse cut is from BR Life Story, and not Forever, those albums run together to me,

 

[Erratic415]

As said before, things changed over the two years.

Mase also had a big dropoff in sales from Harlem World in 97’ to Double Up in 99’.

Harlem World - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Double Up (Mase album) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[MurderToCassette]

Reverse and Journey Through the Life are the only 2 songs on there worth a shyt

 

[NYChase718]

Biggie dead
Mase left
Lox left
missing their pen gane
And their beats and shyt
was played out

 

[jadillac]

Biggie was the difference. Either him on the album, or the subject of songs like, missing you

 

[Edub]

Diddy’s debut album no way out did 561,000 the first week and had the first rap song in history to debut at number 1 on the billboard hot 100 with “I’ll Be missing you”. It was certified 4x platinum by the end of 97 and ended up going 7x platinum overall. It had other top 5 hits like Benjamin’s, Can’t nobody hold us down, and been around the world.

No Way Out (Puff Daddy album) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

2 years later he dropped the follow up forever and it did half the sales the first week an only was certified 1 times platinum.

Forever (Diddy album) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What happened?

Himself…. plus he didn’t have biggie to keep him on point anymore

 

[CHICAGO]

OD

THAT SAMPLE IS TOUGH AS fukk.

THE LYRICS AND DELIVERY
WERE PURE TRASH.

DMX WOULD HAVE KILLED THAT shyt.



​

 

[NO-BadAzz]

In real time, the radio was still a major engine. In 99 that summer the Hot Boys were running shyt. At least down here.

They dropped in July and their single was heavy in rotation along with their video. We on Fire.

Diddy rappin style did not gravitate to the teens like other artists rap style did in real time in 99

R.Kelly single, which was because of the I got 5 on it beat, helped him get spins on the radio waves down here.

Puff at the time was in a funny space as I look back on that time era...he wasn't a gangsta rapper, he didn't really talk about hoes, and he wasn't on some struggle and making it out the mud type rapper, that's why to me, his 2nd album didn't catch on as hard as his first one.


I don't know who his market/audience was for that second album.

He dropped in August, the Hot Boys were still running the summer in August with the Guerilla Warfare album.
Puffy was never on anybody's radar down here as far as goin to Circuit City and spending $19.99 for his shyt...

He didn't really have much of an audience to cater to with his 2nd album.
In real time. I couldn't tell you nobody from the areas in the south, and I was at all of the major events, bumping Puff 2nd album.

The Kels joint got play becuz of the sample, it's not like Puff is dropping bars...Kels hook and the sample got the spins

 

[fallback]

No Limit and Cash Money...



Lets be honest but the shiny suit thing was getting old.

Lets not act Diddy wanted his artists to be thugged out. It didnt help that Diddy was starting to be wild himself. Dude ran up in the offices and smacked Steve Stoute right on the head.

Plus...

the South needed their own folks to rally behind in the mainstream(Master P/No Limit/Baby & Slim/Cash Money)plus the streets on the East needed someone who was like Pac who could relate to them which is where DMX came in.

It's a blessing that Diddy didnt sign DMX or he would have ended up with the Bad Boy makeover wearing shiny suits like with Ma$e.

This is spot on especially the Stoute part...the Hate me Now video and aftermath was in the news and papers a lot and ever since the Godzilla song his shyt wasn't hitting the same. He did bounce back in the new millennium though with Born Again, Black Rob's album and his albums in 01 and 02.

 

[CrimsonTider]

In real time, the radio was still a major engine. In 99 that summer the Hot Boys were running shyt. At least down here.

They dropped in July and their single was heavy in rotation along with their video. We on Fire.

Diddy rappin style did not gravitate to the teens like other artists rap style did in real time in 99

R.Kelly single, which was because of the I got 5 on it beat, helped him get spins on the radio waves down here.

Puff at the time was in a funny space as I look back on that time era...he wasn't a gangsta rapper, he didn't really talk about hoes, and he wasn't on some struggle and making it out the mud type rapper, that's why to me, his 2nd album didn't catch on as hard as his first one.


I don't know who his market/audience was for that second album.

He dropped in August, the Hot Boys were still running the summer in August with the Guerilla Warfare album.
Puffy was never on anybody's radar down here as far as goin to Circuit City and spending $19.99 for his shyt...

He didn't really have much of an audience to cater to with his 2nd album.
In real time. I couldn't tell you nobody from the areas in the south, and I was at all of the major events, bumping Puff 2nd album.

The Kels joint got play becuz of the sample, it's not like Puff is dropping bars...Kels hook and the sample got the spins

This here. rap had moved on. Biggie would’ve not had helped.

I love threads like this because It’s a reminder of how fast rap use to move and how much it has slowed down

 

[Rasille]

This can be its own thread. How fast hip hop moved during the 90’s.

 

[Ziggiy]

Everyone’s already said it basically

Biggie died and Missing You was a salve that Puffy pushed to become a solo superstar. People wanted to hear Biggie’s final verses plus the Lox wrote some FIRE verses for Puff.

Hip Hop changed and we all know hindsight is 20/20 but DMX came and really CRUSHED the buildings. The shiny suit era was dead and the 80’s sampling got played out

The Lox left, Mase left, and this was around the time the “Puffy is a snake” rumors started. He didn’t have the good will Biggie’s death afforded him in 97.

I think Forever is what made Puff understand he’s more of a personality than a rapper. He was able to sell some units off Forever, hop on a huge Nas single, then pivot to hosting awards shows/reality tv/acting/and being more a celebrity than an artist.

Press Play in 06 was kinda cool though

 

[Ziggiy]

Everyone’s already said it basically

Biggie died and Missing You was a salve that Puffy pushed to become a solo superstar. People wanted to hear Biggie’s final verses plus the Lox wrote some FIRE verses for Puff.

Hip Hop changed and we all know hindsight is 20/20 but DMX came and really CRUSHED the buildings. The shiny suit era was dead and the 80’s sampling got played out

The Lox left, Mase left, and this was around the time the “Puffy is a snake” rumors started. He didn’t have the good will Biggie’s death afforded him in 97.

I think Forever is what made Puff understand he’s more of a personality than a rapper. He was able to sell some units off Forever, hop on a huge Nas single, then pivot to hosting awards shows/reality tv/acting/and being more a celebrity than an artist.

Press Play in 06 was kinda cool though