When Michael Jordan was 36 he was Unquestionably The Best Player in the NBA, while Kobe at 36

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

 

[Goatpoacher]

How am I moving goalposts? I'm a different person entirely. Also, I've always criticized critics who were critical of wade's performance against the mavs when the mavs had trouble defending any elite players back then. THeir inability to defend the perimeter led to their infamous 2007 collapse vs. the wariors.

But in all seriousness, Wade's performance against the 2006 piston was fukking crazy. He shot around 60 percent for the series! If he hadn't been injured in 2005 the heat would have won that series too.

 

[GreatestLaker]

Compare them against the 2004-2006 Pistons then :AA:

They played under different rules. There was no hand checking in 06.

Kobe averaged 39.5/5.5/3.5 vs the Pistons in 06.

 

[Taadow]

It's crazy to me that people are always hyping up bball IQ for Kobe. His natural inclination is one on one play which is actually going against the high IQ play. He is the basketball equivalent of the guy who swings for the fences every at bat.

He can be a very good playmaker and it frustrates the Stans (and probably himself) that they're better when he fully buys into the team concept but he ain't got time fo dat. He has been hooked up with great supporting casts almost his whole career. They have smartly surrounded him with big men that are great rebounds and scorers so even when he fukks around and plays Kobe ball, they can bail him out.

Truth. When they had them back-to-back years, Pau and Lamar had games where they were regularly double-doubling -
like in the high teens and chit...if one didn't do it, the other one did. Sometimes both.

And then you had Horry and Fish hitting their 1 shot a game when it mattered...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

How am I moving goalposts? I'm a different person entirely. Also, I've always criticized critics who were critical of wade's performance against the mavs when the mavs had trouble defending any elite players back then. THeir inability to defend the perimeter led to their infamous 2007 collapse vs. the wariors.

But in all seriousness, Wade's performance against the 2006 piston was fukking crazy. He shot around 60 percent for the series! If he hadn't been injured in 2005 the heat would have won that series too.

@Alexander The Great out here belittling Kobe's performance against a "negative defense", when Harris/Terry/Griffin were pretty much the shyttest group of wing defenders in 06. Like it's been stated in here both Bron and Kobe averaged 40+ ppg against Dallas during that season. Dudes out here exposing themselves.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Truth. When they had them back-to-back years, Pau and Lamar had games where they were regularly double-doubling -
like in the high teens and chit...if one didn't do it, the other one did. Sometimes both.

And then you had Horry and Fish hitting their 1 shot a game when it mattered...

Why has it turned into this?

The OG argument was that Harden had a higher IQ and is more fundamentally sound than Kobe. There's been little discussed for Harden's case, and now it's shifted into some weekly quasi-ritualized nostalgic rally where dudes pull themselves and their 40 oz in hand out of the gutter, gathering around the campfire, trying to devalue all his achievements over his career as if they're some marks that might as well be from a role player.

Why aren't we talking about how Harden has only shot above 40% ONCE in his last five playoff series'? Why aren't we talking about how basic and primitive his game is/was once he doesn't get ticky-tack calls in his favor? Why aren't we talking about how he only shot 30% on jumpers across the last two post seasons? Why aren't we talking about how the most success he's had, was a couple of shallow trips in the Western Conference playoffs as a third option and the hermit crab impersonation he pulled off in the Finals? Why aren't we talking about how he's only had two and half seasons with the 1a/1b offensive load?

Nah, but yall nikkas don't wanna talk about that huh

 

[Taadow]

Why has it turned into this?

The OG argument was that Harden had a higher IQ and is more fundamentally sound than Kobe.

Uh, I responded to a quote about Kobe's teammates...in a thread about Kobe vs. Jordan...

so why are you quoting me talkin' about James Harden's stats as the "OG argument"?

 

[Goatpoacher]

They played under different rules. There was no hand checking in 06.

Kobe averaged 39.5/5.5/3.5 vs the Pistons in 06.

I was asking about his PPG not his FG %.

Let's be honest, wade's performance against the pistons was incredible in 2006, far more impressive than his performance in the Finals.

 

[Goatpoacher]

@Alexander The Great out here belittling Kobe's performance against a "negative defense", when Harris/Terry/Griffin were pretty much the shyttest group of wing defenders in 06. Like it's been stated in here both Bron and Kobe averaged 40+ ppg against Dallas during that season. Dudes out here exposing themselves.

Which is why all the people complaining about the foul calls exposed themselves as casual fans.

Wade back in those days had a freakish ability to figure out actual defensive teams. I remember when the cavs were playing the Pistons in 2007 and they were down 2 games, Lebron had a press conference talking about how he talked to Wade about breaking down the Pistons defense. Cavs win the next 4 games and Lebron has a legendary performance all because of Wade's brilliance

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

@Bilz

I don't wanna EVER see you saying Harden's game is more fundamentally sound than Kobe's.

 

[Luke Cage]

lol @ the mileage arguments.

Tim Duncan has just as much mileage and is doing fine.
stop trying to play 48 minute games when you 36 years old and you won't have those problems.

 

[Easy-E]

lol @ the mileage arguments.

Tim Duncan has just as much mileage and is doing fine.
stop trying to play 48 minute games when you 36 years old and you won't have those problems.

smh @ the way he hit the ground, running, after the Achilles.

 

[Originalman]

this is actually correct. MJ's final season with the bulls had him at age 35.

Yes this is true kind of. MJ was 35 at the start of the 1997-1998 season. But he is born in February. So he was 35 to start the season and 36 to end the season.

Even in the game 6 finals vs Utah Isiah Thomas mentions when Pip goes out with the bad back can MJs 36 year old body have enough energy in the 4th to win the game.

Also MJ still retires at 36. The NBA has a lock out and Jordan was with the players fighting the lock out. When 1999 rolls around he announces his retirement in January. The lock out ends and he turns 37 in February.

MJ returns at 39 with the wizards and turns turns 40 during the season. He plays one more year and retires at 41.

 

[Originalman]

Its crazy...I said the same thing last night about Harden. He is fundamentally more sound and has a high bball iq than kobe...its sad but true. Kobe is still great because he was a better athlete with an insane drive to be great. When you watch Harden, it is so easy for him to get his and get his team involved in the offense, something Kobe never was able to master. Kobe needed two year with Coach K...first year to breakdown...second year to build up and he would have been even better than he is now which is scary.

I loved Kobe's game but the boy just selfish. Even how he treats teammates. Always said as a player I would much rather play with Magic or Lebron than Kobe.

On top of that unlike MJ Kobe would also take bad shots. Jordan was much better at taken more efficient shots.

 

[Originalman]

But I always felt that the year and over a half off for Jordan helped extend his career. Kobe never got that time off plus he has always had knee issues. As he got older he basically had bone on bone.