Why is pop/catchy music frowned upon in hip-hop/R&B?

[JustCKing]

i have no fixation with laface. i don't even like that label.
and the Motown/laface comparison that i made, clearly went over your head.

as far as the missy part, youre not telling me anything that i don't already know buddy. and you'd be shocked to know that i like some of missy's stuff.
but thats neither here nor there when it comes to the point that i made, which you are clearly tip-toeing around.

I get that you don't like the label, but you like bringing it up. The Motown/La Face comparison didn't go over my head. It's quite obvious that Motown is the blueprint for a lot of labels, for whatever reason, you singled out La Face as if the statement doesn't apply to Uptown, Bad Boy, So So Def, Def Jam, etc. All these labels looked up to what Barry Gordy did with Motown and based theirs on he did.

I'm not tip-toeing around anything.

 

[Wacky D]

I get that you don't like the label, but you like bringing it up. The Motown/La Face comparison didn't go over my head. It's quite obvious that Motown is the blueprint for a lot of labels, for whatever reason, you singled out La Face as if the statement doesn't apply to Uptown, Bad Boy, So So Def, Def Jam, etc. All these labels looked up to what Barry Gordy did with Motown and based theirs on he did.

I'm not tip-toeing around anything.

my comparison is still going over your head buddy.

all these labels looked up to Motown because it was a black label making history when they were growing up. thats as far as the blueprint goes for some of them. ala uptown & laface were like night & day.complete opposites.

you are tip-toeing around the missy thing. i asked you what hip-hop circles was she ever a hot topic in. and all you gave me was "bu bu but she has songs that get played in clubs and i saw people breakdance to 1 or 2 of her joints before".

that's what "pop" is

given the nature of this thread, I'm led to believe that this thread is moreso about watered-down pop tart music.

 

[Rembrandt]

i think the issue is that the all the aforementioned titles/songs are worse than the previous releases. I thought the weeknd should have hit superstar status off of the trilogy before he brought max martin in; i thought drake should have been solidified off of take care before views dropped. j. cole is one of the few that has a fanbase constantly praising him for forest hill drive regardless of big singles, so he lucked out.

idc if any of these artists go pop to an extent. the hills and i can't feel my face were pop but had a solid feeling of the trilogy in it, especially the hills. views, for it's multitude of tracks, had a lot of songs that could be high points in his career even if they didn't emotionally resonate like take care. j. cole basically succeeded in every avenue, imo. great sales, no features, word of mouth, etc. he did a great job with only a slight sacrifice to lyricism, like that planes song.

work out was an obvious attempt to capture the mainstream audience. the song relied more on its hook than it could ever do its verses, by a long shot.

 

[mobbinfms]

I'm not a big Missy Elliot fan but you need to do the knowledge, son.

I feel like I need to have 90% of regular booth posters on ignore to enjoy this section.

Missy was trash. She was pop. Perfect example.

 

[mobbinfms]

the fukked up thing about that is...thats what weve been lead to believe..but from jumpstreet, hiphop was based off nikkas looping other people's songs and rapping lyrics that other nikkas wrote...the first rap song and iconic joints that followed it where ghostwritten and rapped over disco breakbeats....so when the curtain get pulled back we all ..but its been in our face from the beginning

Nah. Breakbeats was a huge innovation though. That's basically the foundation of hip hop.
You're right that Sugar Hill had ghostwriters. But there was already a thriving hip hop scene in NY that had been active for years. Sugar Hill wasn't really accepted by the hip hop crowd because nobody knew them.

 

[mobbinfms]

but sampling was a huge part of hip hop. doesnt that take the originality component out the window.?

:tochilol:

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Op are you talking about artists like derulo, pitbull, Flo rida, etc?

that's what I would call cookie cutter trash

 

[mobbinfms]

Is this a legit question?

Go listen to the sample for Mass Appeal (a song by Gangstarr), then listen to the final beat.

I can't take any poster seriously if they question the artistic merit of sampling.

 

[mobbinfms]

Im a huge fan of sampling and i appreciate when producers flip a sample and make it their own somewhat. But can we call sampling originality?

:tochilol:

 

[mobbinfms]

Dap rep for 4 hero

Love this song

 

[mobbinfms]

and here's why you can walk with that garbage. Missy's music wasn't safe. And here's why you can walk with that statement. The fact that you are even mentioning Foxy, Trina, Kim is why Missy's music wasn't safe. Foxy, Trina, and Kim sold sex and when they weren't talking about sex it was them talking about drugs and violence. Now all of that has it's place, but what Foxy, Trina, and Kim was more of the norm than what Missy was doing. Foxy, Trina, and Kim made safe music because being sexy is what society expects females to be. Missy music was more defiant than what they were offering. Did Missy talk about sex? Of course, but she didn't look the role. It wasn't the main aspect of her music. Missy didn't look like a sex symbol and her music sounded nothing like anybody else's. You couldn't put Missy into a box. She was something in between Cee Lo Green and Lauryn Hill, albeit less lyrical.

And by the time she came out with album #5, there was nothing safe about this:

^^^ 10+ years before Beyoncé made the "Formation" video or performed it at the Super Bowl.

:tochilol:
Missy was crossover trash.

 

[mobbinfms]

You're still acknowledging that she was indeed a rapper. Missy Elliott had the support of Hip Hop from the jump.

That's because she debuted just as hip hop had become watered down. Still, you'd be crazy to say she had universal support.

 

[mobbinfms]

Missy is super hip hop. 4 elements include b boying. Watch her videos. Hip hop is not 1 thing. She is original and produces.

:tochilol:
Missy was crossover trash breh.

 

[mobbinfms]

It doesn't matter whether it's organic or not. "Slow Motion" is a song that got love from the hood and the streets before it even became a single. Once Juve released it as a single, it shot to #1. It was organic, but still a Pop song, because it wasn't just a song that was huge in the hood/streets and became popular all over. If it's consumed by the masses, it's Pop. If it's structured like a Pop song, it's technically a Pop song. It's not exactly rocket science. And yes, DMX went Pop without necessarily blatantly trying to become a Pop artist.

And no people don't hate in Hip Hop when artists blatantly reach for a hit. A lot of that hate comes from:

1) artists no longer fitting into the box that their original, day one audience put them in

2) they are no longer exclusive because now the masses know about them (pretty much started happening to Weeknd before he even had a Max Martin produced single)

Lauryn Hill and a host of other artist didn't conform, but the music still crossed over to the masses.

This is all wrong breh.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

given the nature of this thread, I'm led to believe that this thread is moreso about watered-down pop tart music.

yes because alot of people when they here the word "pop" in music, they're thinking of the most generic and formulaic sounding music that was intentionally crafted to be consumed by the masses. The truth is that "pop" is any music that's mass consumed regardless if it's simple and formulaic or complex with lots of soul.