Why is pop/catchy music frowned upon in hip-hop/R&B?

SirBiatch

Prince of Persia. Stalked for daps
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
25,121
Reputation
-20,631
Daps
39,901
Inside the mind of an attention whore: Base your entire life around one poster. Make thousands of posts about one poster, hoping poster will respond. When poster finally responds to make one post addressing your deranged fanaticism, quickly claim that the poster has you on his mind. While breaking personal records for fanaticism:laff:
 

JustCKing

Superstar
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
25,657
Reputation
3,989
Daps
48,901
Reppin
NULL
No. A record doesn't become pop because it is successful. A record can flop but still be pop.

You're referring to songs that are blatantly catering to Pop audiences and missing the mark.

Yes. Going pop is watering the music down to such a degree intentionally before the record is released.

Pop isn't necessarily watering down the music. The music becomes watered down when artists and labels strategically make manufactured songs intended to target Pop audiences.

I don't get what you're saying here.
And IWW was not a pop album. It had a few commercial records that were tastefully done. It did catch flack because Nas' audience up to that point was purely hip hop and hip hop still had some integrity in 96. Missy was an R&B hip hop hybrid as you said which is why hip hop fans didn't care about the pop sound of her first album. She wasn't one of us.

It was a Pop album. The Trackmasters in '96 were considered "watered down Pop" producers. They, along with L.E.S. provided most of the production on IWW and guess what, they also produced several of the songs on Big Willie Style. The Trackmasters were a machine. They had a formula that worked (looping popular 80's Pop and R&B records).

The critique of Nas's music wasn't about integrity. It was about him moving outside of the box that he was put in. A box that still shadows him to this day. Nas was in top form lyrically, conceptually, and creatively on that album and to this day people front on it because of the subject matter and production. "I Gave You Power" and "Take It In Blood" could go toe to toe with any Illmatic track, but a lot of heads overlook that and consider it blasphemy to even compare IWW to Illmatic.

No matter how you try to slice it, Missy Elliott was still Hip Hop, even if she was a hybrid (in which you're still admitting that she was Hip Hop). The Fugees' The Score, and Lauryn Hill's Miseducation is the prime example of what I'm getting at. The Score sounds nothing like mainstream music, but it was a major crossover success that went Pop. Same goes for Miseducation. Lines are blurred because both also have R&B songs on them.

And yes, Hip Hop fans cared about Missy.
 

JustCKing

Superstar
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
25,657
Reputation
3,989
Daps
48,901
Reppin
NULL
You think any of these rappers have a bigger gay fan base then Missy?

How is the sexual orientation of one's audience of any relevance here? Artists selling millions of records certainly have gay fans and a lot of the artists I listed were selling millions on millions more than Missy. Assuredly, all of those albums weren't purchases from Hip Hop heads.
 

JustCKing

Superstar
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
25,657
Reputation
3,989
Daps
48,901
Reppin
NULL
How? Who is discussing a Missy record like they would Illmatic? Death Certificate? The Diary? The Chronic?
How old were you in 97? I didn't know anyone who bought that album and I would have looked funny at anybody who did.

Again, you're using a very skewed view on Hip Hop. Just because people don't discuss a Missy record like they would Illmatic, Death Certificate, The Diary or The Chronic doesn't make it any less Hip Hop. I mean, people don't talk about albums from MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, etc. like that either. I guess they aren't Hip Hop. And it's not just limited to female rappers, albums from artists like Souls of Mischief, the Pharcyde, etc. don't get brought up like that either.
 

Wacky D

PROVOCATIVE POSTING
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
40,571
Reputation
503
Daps
36,704
@JustCKing, I'd avoid anything @Wacky D says on Missy/Aaliyah/Timbaland. he has some sort of weird bias toward them. Wacky D's my boy in almost every other respect, but his struggle-opinions on the aforementioned :mjlol:


I hold no bias towards anyone. I'm probably the most unbiased person on this site.

regarding music tho, I have 2 pet peeves:
1.) revisionist history
2.) blurred lines
anyone that benefits from either of these options, are liable to get chitted on by me.

Aaliyah benefits from both.
missy & timbaland benefit from #2, which is what this thread is all about. people blurring lines in favor of missy.

thats why I'm going in on missy right now. its nothing personal.


There is a world difference between Pitbull, Flo-Rida, and The Black Eyed Peas. They all started off Hip Hop and went Pop without ever looking back. Red, Meth, Busta, Nas, Jay, Ghost, etc. all worked with her.


now ask yourself, which group of artists shares more of the same fans with missy Elliot.

:popcorn:


And this is the answer you give after all this time: None at all. Still hiding behind the posts of others because you have no response.


no response to what?:heh:

youre the one pulling chit out of your ass.

we ask you where are these hip-hop circles where missy is relevant, and you give us roundabout answers of people who don't exist. and now youre talking about some billboard charts.

this is ridiculous but I must say, I'm starting to see you in a better light. before, I looked at you as an a$$hole who will say anything just to keep an argument going because youre not man enough to take an L........but apparently, you just want to keep arguments going, just for the sake of keeping arguments going. to the point where you even want us to type out responses when theres no need to.:laugh: its stupid but at least youre consistent. I gotta respect it.
 

JustCKing

Superstar
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
25,657
Reputation
3,989
Daps
48,901
Reppin
NULL
I hold no bias towards anyone. I'm probably the most unbiased person on this site.

regarding music tho, I have 2 pet peeves:
1.) revisionist history
2.) blurred lines
anyone that benefits from either of these options, are liable to get chitted on by me.

Aaliyah benefits from both.
missy & timbaland benefit from #2, which is what this thread is all about. people blurring lines in favor of missy.

thats why I'm going in on missy right now. its nothing personal.

This coming from the biggest revisionist in Coli history.

You said you're "going in on Missy right now", yet it's nothing personal. :camby:

This thread isn't about blurring lines. It's about people like you who frown upon or create reasons why something that's catchy or Pop. It's one thing not to like something because you don't feel it or think it's wack. It's another thing when you try to play politics and act like the rest of the world thinks like you in order to validate your opinion instead of just letting it stand on it's own.

How do you have something against blurred lines yet you champion E. 1999? I love the album, but songs like "Crossroads" (the single version) epitomize what this thread is about. Then there's the record near the middle of the album.

You've been on this crusade against them and Dungeon Family and it's obvious you have a personal axe to grind with them.
now ask yourself, which group of artists shares more of the same fans with missy Elliot.

Definitely not the Flo-Rida, Pitbull group because they don't even have fan bases. They have huge hits, but albums that flopped. Yeah, Red, Meth, Ghost, Busta etc. worked with Missy (and all except Ghost worked with her on numerous occasions) because they have nothing in common.
no response to what?:heh:

youre the one pulling chit out of your ass.

we ask you where are these hip-hop circles where missy is relevant, and you give us roundabout answers of people who don't exist. and now youre talking about some billboard charts.

this is ridiculous but I must say, I'm starting to see you in a better light. before, I looked at you as an a$$hole who will say anything just to keep an argument going because youre not man enough to take an L........but apparently, you just want to keep arguments going, just for the sake of keeping arguments going. to the point where you even want us to type out responses when theres no need to.:laugh: its stupid but at least youre consistent. I gotta respect it.

No I gave you my opinion and then backed it up with something tangible. Just because it doesn't fit the narrative your trying to push doesn't mean that I'm saying anything to keep an argument going. As a matter of fact, I didn't even start the argument. I'm not the one who brought up Missy in the first place. You quoted me, so if you don't like how I post: don't tag me and don't quote me. Simple as that. If there's no need to type out responses, why are your keys still moving?
 
Last edited:

DJ Mart-Kos

All Star
Joined
Dec 21, 2013
Messages
4,540
Reputation
550
Daps
4,267
a lot of pop music is actually catchy simply cause it sounds annoying. Not boring but annoying.
 

Wacky D

PROVOCATIVE POSTING
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
40,571
Reputation
503
Daps
36,704
This coming from the biggest revisionist in Coli history.

You said you're "going in on Missy right now", yet it's nothing personal. :camby:

This thread isn't about blurring lines. It's about people like you who frown upon or create reasons why something that's catchy or Pop. It's one thing not to like something because you don't feel it or think it's wack. It's another thing when you try to play politics and act like the rest of the world thinks like you in order to validate your opinion instead of just letting it stand on it's own.

How do you have something against blurred lines yet you champion E. 1999? I love the album, but songs like "Crossroads" (the single version) epitomize what this thread is about. Then there's the record near the middle of the album.

You've been on this crusade against them and Dungeon Family and it's obvious you have a personal axe to grind with them.


Definitely not the Flo-Rida, Pitbull group because they don't even have fan bases. They have huge hits, but albums that flopped. Yeah, Red, Meth, Ghost, Busta etc. worked with Missy (and all except Ghost worked with her on numerous occasions) because they have nothing in common.


No I gave you my opinion and then backed it up with something tangible. Just because it doesn't fit the narrative your trying to push doesn't mean that I'm saying anything to keep an argument going. As a matter of fact, I didn't even start the argument. I'm not the one who brought up Missy in the first place. You quoted me, so if you don't like how I post: don't tag me and don't quote me. Simple as that. If there's no need to type out responses, why are your keys still moving?


my keys are still moving because of the other side-arguments we got going. not because of the chit you were trying to keep going.

I'm a revisionist concerning what exactly? this is what I mean when I say that you have a habit of throwing chit at the wall, and hoping that it sticks.

I'm not frowning upon anything. you just don't want to come to the realization that missy lacks a legit hip-hop base. and you didn't back up your claims with anything tangible. you posted charts. LOL.

and no, tha crossroads, and buddah lovahz(the other song that youre referring to. which is a song about weed) do not epitomize what this thread is about. neither do the trackmasters or "it was written". none of that is POP. and I saw @mobbinfms break this down to you yesterday, so I'm not gonna go back-n-forth about it. I also saw multiple others break it down earlier in this thread.

well black eyed peas sold a lot of records. I see you left them out. and I'm sure flo-rida & pitbull get pretty good tour money, so obviously they have fanbases too. and I'm not even putting missy THAT FAR into the pop category. i'd moreso categorize her as r&b actually, but she has more common fans with those types than she does with the latter group of artists that you mentioned.
 

Wacky D

PROVOCATIVE POSTING
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
40,571
Reputation
503
Daps
36,704
what were all these pop beats by the trackmasters?:heh:

sure, they were party-hardy producers that mostly catered towards urban radio, but since when is that considered pop?
 

JustCKing

Superstar
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
25,657
Reputation
3,989
Daps
48,901
Reppin
NULL
what were all these pop beats by the trackmasters?:heh:

sure, they were party-hardy producers that mostly catered towards urban radio, but since when is that considered pop?

Most of their hits, but if you want to take it there. They did the bulk of Big Willie Style.
 

mobbinfms

Veteran
Supporter
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
37,413
Reputation
15,465
Daps
93,932
Reppin
TPC
You're referring to songs that are blatantly catering to Pop audiences and missing the mark.
Right. Pop songs.
Pop isn't necessarily watering down the music. The music becomes watered down when artists and labels strategically make manufactured songs intended to target Pop audiences.
Right. Which I would call pop music. Sounds like we are getting caught up in semantics at this point.
The Trackmasters in '96 were considered "watered down Pop" producers.
Nope. They were commercial. There's a difference.
They had a formula that worked (looping popular 80's Pop and R&B records).
That was more Bad Boy.
critique of Nas's music wasn't about integrity. It was about him moving outside of the box that he was put in. A box that still shadows him to this day
Hip hop is a box though. There is nothin wrong with hip hop fans wanting a rapper to make hip hop music. It's a style of music with certain definitional characteristics. You know it when you hear it.
Missy Elliott was still Hip Hop, even if she was a hybrid (in which you're still admitting that she was Hip Hop).
Sure. I'm not arguing she was Britney Spears. Obviously she has a connection to hip hop. I'll go a step further and concede she's not as offensively pop as Florida, Pit and BEP.
Score sounds nothing like mainstream music, but it was a major crossover success that went Pop.
Because of Lauryn singing that one song in particular. They would have done double play at most with just fugee la.
Hip Hop fans cared about Missy.
How?
She was never considered a lyricist. Or even a good rapper. Her albums were never considered hip hop classics. She's not heralded as some ground breaking hip hop producer. So what did they care about?
 

10bandz

RIP to the GOAT
Supporter
Joined
Jul 27, 2015
Messages
44,466
Reputation
8,268
Daps
220,870
Inside the mind of an attention whore: Base your entire life around one poster. Make thousands of posts about one poster, hoping poster will respond. When poster finally responds to make one post addressing your deranged fanaticism, quickly claim that the poster has you on his mind. While breaking personal records for fanaticism:laff:


nikka no one cares about your dumbass schtick and rhetoric no more, its over:mjlol:

nikka out here analyzing shyt extra hard:mjlol:
 
Top