Will The Continent Of Africa EVER Produce A Country That Can Be A "Superpower"?

[BlackManLiveFromLondon]

@MansaMusa said it best. Congo needs a Mao Zedong like leader to unite the country.

We got Moise Katumbi who iirc hasnt been in the country for over a year because Kabila is scared

Done some decent work out in Lubumbashi that place has changed but im still a bit suspicious of him

 

[BlackManLiveFromLondon]

Game changer if that happens

That guy better be able to speak Lingala, Kikongo and Swahili

 

[ChatGPT-5]

What exactly is your point and what does the map prove?

in response to the OP.

No. You need a country with a massive population at this point in history. Over 200 million at least. On top of that, I wouldn't want to be, I quite like how our lands are untainted, rather not chop down all of our nature in favor for urban bullshyt. Keep a handful of cities for every country and it's good enough.

I never said all.

However, the great plains were once a forest. It is now considered tornado lane.
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1006&context=usdafsfacpub

the great plains were used to give housing for the rest of the U.S back when you lot used wood for cabins/houses. Buffalo...where are they? Europe just about has zero predators left. I would rather africa not kill off its diverse species and animals. I think africa can co exist with nature, but its got to be cautious. The world needs the amazon and african jungle for oxygen FYI.

Well yea, it did, but I'm just saying, industrialistion is dangerous in that it can cut down and kill many animals. Take a look at Brasil and its cutting down the amazon, which provides like 60% of oxygen to the planet. They literally had to start re-evaluating once they realised it was getting out of hand.


Someone earlier said Africa should be one dubai, hell no. Did you know the sahara was once a forest until the egyptians fukked all of that up. We need to still take care of the planet, its our home and very important. One can still live comfortable while protecting the environment. Africa is not densely populated, as I said before, a handful of cities within a country is enough, we don't need over 5 dozen cities like america.

80% of SA is not industrialised.

pay attention or don't quote me.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

in response to the OP.











pay attention or don't quote me.

Like always you are confused. What does your first point[which is addressing an African superpower] has to do with South Africa being 80% non-industrialized Tommy Knocks?

Yes, I paid attention but not you. Again WHAT is the context of your map of South Africa that even proves that SA is 80% non-industrialized??? Do you even know what industrialization is? Anyways, South Africa has underwent industrialization since they were a colony of the British. See here.
Lesson: The Industrial Revolution in Britain and Southern Africa from 1860 | South African History Online

 

[Free White & 21]

This is what @mbewane and @TZiggy nean when they say you can't just apply western concepts to Africa

It's funny how "incorrectly applied western concepts" gets used as some catch all counter argument against non constructive African behavior

All while being predominantly Christian

 

[ChatGPT-5]

Like always you are confused. What does your first point[which is addressing an African superpower] has to do with South Africa being 80% non-industrialized Tommy Knocks?

Yes, I paid attention but not you. Again WHAT is the context of your map of South Africa that even proves that SA is 80% non-industrialized??? Do you even know what industrialization is? Anyways, South Africa has underwent industrialization since they were a colony of the British. See here.
Lesson: The Industrial Revolution in Britain and Southern Africa from 1860 | South African History Online

I don't know why you keep calling me another user and I don't know what you get from it, but it doesn't affect me any. So now that we've got that out the way, you may want to pay attention if you don't get it. I stated I would want it to be LIKE South Africa, in other words in pockets, that was my whole point. Someone stated they'd want Africa to be dubai or america from coast to coast, and that's just stupid, the terrain wouldn't even allow for it.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I don't know why you keep calling me another user and I don't know what you get from it, but it doesn't affect me any. So now that we've got that out the way, you may want to pay attention if you don't get it. I stated I would want it to be LIKE South Africa, in other words in pockets, that was my whole point. Someone stated they'd want Africa to be dubai or america from coast to coast, and that's just stupid, the terrain wouldn't even allow for it.

Then what do you mean by this?

80% of SA is not industrialised.

^^^THAT is what I am addressing, Industrialization is just replacement of agrarian society with manufacturing, but more importantly machines now doing the work[rapid production] compared to human work. Doesn't mean many of South Africa's or Africa's land has to be sacrificed.

 

[Rell Lauren]

Ghana.

 

[ChatGPT-5]

Then what do you mean by this?


^^^THAT is what I am addressing, Industrialization is just replacement of agrarian society with manufacturing, but more importantly machines now doing the work[rapid production] compared to human work. Doesn't mean many of South Africa's or Africa's land has to be sacrificed.

Ok. I don't know whats getting lost in translation.

Me: I want most of africa to be more like south africa

Me: 80% of SA is not industrialised, yet modern enough to have an infrastructure to support its population.

What is confusing you?

 

[Crayola Coyote]

I hope so I really do. Especially, a West or East African country.

West Africa rise will be flames

 

[mbewane]

The critical issue for almost all African countries isn't the corruption, tribalism, religious conflict, etc. Those are all maladies common to every nation on Earth, "developed" or not. You can't tell me the Germans, Poles, Czechs, Dutch, Belgians, English, French, Russians, Ukrainians and Hungarians having centuries-old beef with one another, switching allegiances whenever convenient and pillaging one another for resources and women isn't some "petty tribalism", and these guys went at it with the most lethal non-nuclear weaponry known to man, firebombing entire cities and exterminating whole religious groups while sending literally tens of millions of men to certain death on the battlefield. Postcolonial violence in Africa doesn't even approach 1/10th of the level of barbarity and loss of human life we saw in WWI and WWII.

The problem endemic to almost every African country (and this applies to the Middle East as well) is a devastating clash of traditional, smaller-scale cultures and social arrangements with the overwhelming scale and scope of modernity. Prior to the "scramble for Africa" and the slave trade, Africans across the continent had developed hundreds if not thousands of cultures, traditions, social mores, and practices that allowed for more or less sustainable, relatively benign government at a smaller, local scale. However, these arrangements do not scale up to the size of modern nation-states - it is far easier to keep an eye on and check corruption when it happens at the 1000 or even 10000 subject scale, but when you're talking about pilfering a national government responsible for tens of millions of people, it becomes an impossible problem to solve. At every turn, in an attempt to maintain some semblance of peace or stability, African national governments are forced into making short-term decisions (paying off a particularly belligerent tribal group, running roughshod on traditional peoples in an area chock full of easily exploitable natural resources, etc.) that all but guarantee long-term dysfunction and stagnation.

Europe and the US had the benefit of being able to co-evolve with the onset of modernity - it wasn't *thrust* upon them in one fell swoop, but occurred over 10+ generations that allowed for the culture to change and shift in ways that would accommodate the new technologies. And it isn't like it was a cakewalk for the West - the Industrial Revolution was almost purely an exercise in human degradation and misery, and modernity has led to a pretty ugly disintegration of family life. And don't forget those two world wars either!

I think one area where we can viscerally experience this clash of traditional and modern society is the unprecedented population growth that the continent has seen post WWII. On the one hand, modernity brought amazing advancements in medicine and nutritional science to even the poorest people in Africa - pills for sleeping sickness, pills/DDT spraying for malaria, knowledge of germ theory and wound management...the list goes on. But on the other hand, in a traditional society where a mother could expect to lose the majority of her children before the age of 5, getting pregnant early and often was the only way to ensure that her family would have enough people to work the farm, protect the livestock, provide for her in old age, etc. So post-WWII, we shock the continent with all these medical advances without any real change to the underlying culture (how would it change, it never had the chance to!), and end up with an incredibly politically/economically destabilizing population boom. And of course the West, having had the chance to adapt to the onset of modernity and co-evolve with it, significantly dropped birthrates without even much prodding from their own national governments - it just became *normal* for people to have smaller families.

I've written enough for now. Interested to hear your thoughts. I don't write this as a cop-out for all the various terrible dictators that have ruled and ugly ethnic feuds that have been stoked over the years, but instead to simply try and understand the true roots of the current dysfunction.

Great post breh. Not much to add tbh. That's the big problem with using western concepts and timetables in Africa, people "forget" that Europe became what it is after centuries of evolution/inner strife/tribalism/massacres/inquisition and whatnot before becoming the "model of civilization". As you reminded just 70 years ago Nazis ruled over half or Europe, and 20 years Yougoslavia happened. So even in Europe we aren't "there" yet (one only has to see all tha nationalist/regionalist movements, and the rising far-right).

Indeed there is somehing to be said about the whole scale thing, most african countries are artificial constructs whereas euro countries have had centuries to form themselves "organically". So obviously over time some sentiment of nation and some sort of administration has been able to develop itself, through decades if not centuries of trial and error. Tons of African countries aren't even 100 years old.

 

[#SOG_soldier]

Tribalism isn't the problem, the problem is there ain't enuff strong leaders that can make the smaller nations fall in line. Some of the biggest and most important civilizations in the world were in Africa. All of them were the result of one group dominating its neighbors. The first African superpower will be the first nation with rich resources, straight leadership, strong military, and willing to make other tribes disappear. Africa is way to fragmented one day (not anytime soon) empires will rise

 

[Free White & 21]

The problem endemic to almost every African country (and this applies to the Middle East as well) is a devastating clash of traditional, smaller-scale cultures and social arrangements with the overwhelming scale and scope of modernity. Prior to the "scramble for Africa" and the slave trade, Africans across the continent had developed hundreds if not thousands of cultures, traditions, social mores, and practices that allowed for more or less sustainable, relatively benign government at a smaller, local scale. However, these arrangements do not scale up to the size of modern nation-states - it is far easier to keep an eye on and check corruption when it happens at the 1000 or even 10000 subject scale, but when you're talking about pilfering a national government responsible for tens of millions of people, it becomes an impossible problem to solve. At every turn, in an attempt to maintain some semblance of peace or stability, African national governments are forced into making short-term decisions (paying off a particularly belligerent tribal group, running roughshod on traditional peoples in an area chock full of easily exploitable natural resources, etc.) that all but guarantee long-term dysfunction and stagnation.

These cultures, social arrangements, traditions, social mores, and practices all fall under the umbrella of Tribalism. It seems like we're in agreement on this point.

The "modernity" they're ultimately clashing with is the expansion of their idea of tribes and tribal empowerment.

 

[Afro]

The critical issue for almost all African countries isn't the corruption, tribalism, religious conflict, etc. Those are all maladies common to every nation on Earth, "developed" or not. You can't tell me the Germans, Poles, Czechs, Dutch, Belgians, English, French, Russians, Ukrainians and Hungarians having centuries-old beef with one another, switching allegiances whenever convenient and pillaging one another for resources and women isn't some "petty tribalism", and these guys went at it with the most lethal non-nuclear weaponry known to man, firebombing entire cities and exterminating whole religious groups while sending literally tens of millions of men to certain death on the battlefield. Postcolonial violence in Africa doesn't even approach 1/10th of the level of barbarity and loss of human life we saw in WWI and WWII.

The problem endemic to almost every African country (and this applies to the Middle East as well) is a devastating clash of traditional, smaller-scale cultures and social arrangements with the overwhelming scale and scope of modernity. Prior to the "scramble for Africa" and the slave trade, Africans across the continent had developed hundreds if not thousands of cultures, traditions, social mores, and practices that allowed for more or less sustainable, relatively benign government at a smaller, local scale. However, these arrangements do not scale up to the size of modern nation-states - it is far easier to keep an eye on and check corruption when it happens at the 1000 or even 10000 subject scale, but when you're talking about pilfering a national government responsible for tens of millions of people, it becomes an impossible problem to solve. At every turn, in an attempt to maintain some semblance of peace or stability, African national governments are forced into making short-term decisions (paying off a particularly belligerent tribal group, running roughshod on traditional peoples in an area chock full of easily exploitable natural resources, etc.) that all but guarantee long-term dysfunction and stagnation.

Europe and the US had the benefit of being able to co-evolve with the onset of modernity - it wasn't *thrust* upon them in one fell swoop, but occurred over 10+ generations that allowed for the culture to change and shift in ways that would accommodate the new technologies. And it isn't like it was a cakewalk for the West - the Industrial Revolution was almost purely an exercise in human degradation and misery, and modernity has led to a pretty ugly disintegration of family life. And don't forget those two world wars either!

I think one area where we can viscerally experience this clash of traditional and modern society is the unprecedented population growth that the continent has seen post WWII. On the one hand, modernity brought amazing advancements in medicine and nutritional science to even the poorest people in Africa - pills for sleeping sickness, pills/DDT spraying for malaria, knowledge of germ theory and wound management...the list goes on. But on the other hand, in a traditional society where a mother could expect to lose the majority of her children before the age of 5, getting pregnant early and often was the only way to ensure that her family would have enough people to work the farm, protect the livestock, provide for her in old age, etc. So post-WWII, we shock the continent with all these medical advances without any real change to the underlying culture (how would it change, it never had the chance to!), and end up with an incredibly politically/economically destabilizing population boom. And of course the West, having had the chance to adapt to the onset of modernity and co-evolve with it, significantly dropped birthrates without even much prodding from their own national governments - it just became *normal* for people to have smaller families.

I've written enough for now. Interested to hear your thoughts. I don't write this as a cop-out for all the various terrible dictators that have ruled and ugly ethnic feuds that have been stoked over the years, but instead to simply try and understand the true roots of the current dysfunction.

I gotta say you and @mbewane wrote some excellent posts.

Props for doing so in a clear and calm manner too.

I'm learning alot as an African American

 

[mbewane]

I gotta say you and @mbewane are wrote some excellent posts.

Props for doing so in a clear and calm manner too.

I'm learning alot as an African American

Thx

It's all good when we can learn from one another