Yellow Vest Protests in France because President Macron hiked up the tax on fossil fuels

[mbewane]

Sounds like a generally nihilistic anti-system protest mood Not good for anyone.

Haha yeah but it's been a long time coming tbh. Interestingly enough neither Le Pen nor Mélenchon ever really managed to appear as "anti-système", like you could say La Lega and M5S in Italy for example. Indeed, it's anyone guess to see what all of this will lead to.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

French troops deployed amid protests on Reunion island

Reunion Island getting busy, I wonder if other French overseas territories are protesting as well?

 

[thatrapsfan]

Emmanuel Macron faces the toughest test of his presidency

Good overview from the Economist:


PARIS IS USED to theatrical and periodically violent street protest. But the scenes of urban rioting this weekend were unlike anything the French capital has seen for over a decade. President Emmanuel Macron has returned from dealing with intractable global issues at the G20 summit in Argentina to face the first real political crisis of his presidency.

The most immediate challenge is security. On December 1st, 412 people were arrested in Paris. There were 249 recorded cases of arson, many of them in the capital’s smartest neighbourhoods, such as Avenue Kléber and other arteries leading to the Place de l’Etoile, where the Arc de Triomphe stands. Images of torched cars before Paris landmarks have filled the 24-hour news channels all weekend. Since the gilets jaunes protesters emerged three weeks ago, the numbers protesting countrywide have dropped: from 280,000 to 136,000 this weekend. But as the figures have fallen, the violence has intensified.

The profile of the perpetrators is mixed. Some were organised ultra-right and ultra-left casseurs, or troublemakers, who are known to police for infiltrating protests. Most of the gilets jaunes, who have been manning roundabouts and road junctions across France, are peaceful. But there was also a blurring of the lines between the organised and mobile groups of anarchists and neo-fascists, and some of the otherwise peaceful gilets jaunes.

With a fourth day of protests planned for December 8th, Benjamin Griveaux, the government’s spokesman, has raised the possibility of imposing a state of emergency. France has resorted to this before, notably following the terrorist attacks of 2015, and after urban riots in 2005. But Mr Macron has asked the government first to explore other ways of keeping the capital, and other cities, safe. One of the difficulties facing the police force is the largely structureless and leaderless nature of the gilets jaunes. The police is faced more with riot-management than the familiar union-led demonstrations, whose organisers help plan crowd-control arrangements.

Beyond the immediate security challenge, Mr Macron also faces the stiffest political test of his 18-month-old presidency. The gilets jaunes movement—named after the high-visibility jackets that all motorists must carry—began as a protest against higher taxes on fuel. The protesters were largely people on modest incomes living in predominantly rural or outer suburban areas, who drive long distances to work. But it has since captured a far broader anger: about the cost of living, Mr Macron’s early tax cuts for the better-off, and a perception that he is indifferent to the concerns of ordinary people. It is a protest by France’s squeezed middle: those whose incomes are too high for all welfare benefits, but too low to feel comfortable.

The great difficulty for the French president is that he has styled himself as a leader who does not cave in to the street, as so many of his predecessors have. Indeed, during his short time in office, Mr Macron has faced down successive waves of union-led protests against reforms which are, slowly, helping to make the country more competitive. He is not about to resign, or dissolve the National Assembly, as some protesters are demanding. Yet the former investment banker cannot afford to appear indifferent to the movement. This is particularly so given the broad public sympathy for the gilets jaunes.

The French have been at a loss to find a useful comparison to understand the nature of the movement. The country has witnessed before the emergence of recent grass-roots protests, such as Brittany’s bonnets rouges, but this was regional. France is certainly no stranger to mass protests on the streets. But these tend either to be organised by established unions, or—like the movement against gay marriage—to have divided the country rather than found popular backing. Some analysts reach for May 1968, or poujadisme in the 1950s. Others venture the revolution of 1789, or even the Jacquerie peasant revolt of 1358.

Perhaps most unexpectedly, the gilets jaunes seem to be the expression of a form of digitally enabled populism which prizes an uncontaminated connection with the people. The movement emerged via Facebook and social media, and values its identity as a spontaneous expression of “the people”. This makes it difficult for the government to deal with. Already its attempts to name spokesmen have been undermined by disorganisation, a lack of common objectives and internal divisions. It also means that the country’s existing populist leaders—the likes of Jean-Luc Mélenchon, on the far left, and Marine Le Pen, on the nationalist right—have failed to cash in on the movement. Such leaders are becoming part of the rejected establishment.

Under the Fifth Republic, the constitutional power invested in the French presidency makes the country’s leader at once the focus of inflated hopes, and of anger and disappointment. Mr Macron campaigned for office in 2017 as a political insurgent against the established political parties. Now, the rebellion is aimed at him. How he handles the current crisis could well determine his presidency.

 

[Liu Kang]

@Liu Kang @mbewane seems like its getting crazier every weekend. Give us some thoughts from the ground.

Just to be clear, as it was the same with the 2005 riots. The car torching and fights with the police are VERY localized, France is not burning at all. Even if the violent protests spread to other cities than Paris, they will usually be in certain specific areas and not city wide.

 

[Liu Kang]

French troops deployed amid protests on Reunion island

Reunion Island getting busy, I wonder if other French overseas territories are protesting as well?

La Réunion is always busy. It's the opposite that would be surprising

For Guadeloupe and Martinique, I asked my parents last week and they told me there were nothing really. Some stuff there and there but nothing of significant scale.

 

[thatrapsfan]

Just to be clear, as it was the same with the 2005 riots. The car torching and fights with the police are VERY localized, France is not burning at all. Even if the violent protests spread to other cities than Paris, they will usually be in certain specific areas and not city wide.

No doubt, I didnt think otherwise, but still quite striking.

What are your thoughts on the protests in general?

 

[afterlife2009]

unexpected tweet i just read

 

[thatrapsfan]

unexpected tweet i just read

Shes dating a French soccer player (Adil Rami ) who plays in Marseille. She probably spends a lot of time in France.

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

La Réunion is always busy. It's the opposite that would be surprising

For Guadeloupe and Martinique, I asked my parents last week and they told me there were nothing really. Some stuff there and there but nothing of significant scale.

Fanon taught me quite a bit about the French Antilles.

Didn’t know Reunion was so active. How the hell are they still a French territory?

 

[Liu Kang]

No doubt, I didnt think otherwise, but still quite striking.

What are your thoughts on the protests in general?

I understand them.

Never really fukked with Macron but was willing to give him a chance as it was a new generation with possibly a different way of governing and leading. I think he means well when he wants to reform the country as it's true that our institutions need to be more efficient and modern. There are stuff to change when it comes to our job market, that's true. Economically, he follows the works of "social-liberal" economists like Philippe Aghion. If you're interested (and understand technical French ), he has public classes available on Youtube so you can understand what he preaches economically. Dude has been parts or was a teacher to several Economic Sciences Nobel Prizes so it makes sense that Macron seeks its advices and to be frank, his research is interesting but very stirred towards the scandinavian model : very flexible job market, more competition between companies with less state-owned strongholds, good saftey net and benefits, more social mobility (mostly).

So I believe that's where Macron and his teams aims to drive France to. Even though I do not agree fully with Aghion's economical views (he really is a centrist though he leans to the left (a bit) on social issues), but his theories are very sound and most importantly he backs it up with data and research (I mean that's his work ) I never finished reading Piketty's book but to make it simple, him and Aghion are more or less opposites when it French economical ideas. They do agree on things but Aghion will always side with more competition and less state presence.

The issue with Macron (because the Gilets Jaunes thing is mostly a revolt against him that was triggered by specific policies like the fuel price) is not much that he tries to follow Aghion's works. It's that like the European Union in its building time, the socio-conomical reforms are first and foremost economical with no emphasis on the social part. It's at a point when even Aghion disagrees with what he's done thus far and found disappointing that he didn't focus on the social parts of his program. To be frank, the changes he wants make sense (theoritically, I agree with the Carbon tax because we need to make changes in our society to push an ecological revolution) but Macron like Sarkozy in his time believes that he could makes drastic changes in the French society without much empathy which appears brutal to the citizens. France is difficult to reform and as always been so it needs to be surgical to do so but urgency makes politician takes the butcher's way which will always be meet with resistance.

A part of being president is to be able to convince the citizens and make them accept and understand difficult policies because they are needed. But Macron like Hollande, like Chirac, like Giscard d'Estaing and many more politicians is a product of the ENA which the the "school" that makes the French elite. From that school, come from a non negligible part of our politicians, CEOs or influencers. Not every one that is from the ENA behaves that way obviously but I think Macron has this kind of arrogance of a certain elite that would make it take decisions for others that don't need explaining because it's good for them no matter they like it or not. It's a very royal approach of the president role (that is very French to be frank). We did behead several kings but deep inside, the French democracy does enjoy royalty. But not in name though

Also, Macron has against him several things :
- he's young and inexperienced as a politician. As a matter fact, he's younger than the average Frenchman (42, and he's 40 or 41).
- he was never voted in before being elected president. All his past experiences were him being "chosen"
- his past experiences are in Finance, which wouldn't be an issue if he was less of a centrist I think.

So all in all, people have this image of him that is that even if he's brilliant, he doesn't understand their day to day struggle and the violence of having to pay more for fuel or receive less aid. In the macro scale, the policies are good (in theory) but this leads to micro-scale (the individuals) impacts that Macron doesn't seem to care about. So that's why the Yellow vests protests.

 

[Liu Kang]

Fanon taught me quite a bit about the French Antilles.

Didn’t know Reunion was so active. How the hell are they still a French territory?

I read him also, very sensible writer.

La Réunion is still a territory because for reasons to complex to enumerate, they would lose too much by being independent from France. It's the same reasons that Mayotte or New Caledonia voted against independance or for more inclusion into France (and Europe). That's how it is

 

[Serious]

unexpected tweet i just read

And that's a good premise to stand on. The beneficiaries of structural violence, indirectly inflict a shyt ton of harm on the the general populace in the form of instability.

I'd love say more....

But the alphabet boys out here....

 

[thatrapsfan]

I understand them.

Never really fukked with Macron but was willing to give him a chance as it was a new generation with possibly a different way of governing and leading. I think he means well when he wants to reform the country as it's true that our institutions need to be more efficient and modern. There are stuff to change when it comes to our job market, that's true. Economically, he follows the works of "social-liberal" economists like Philippe Aghion. If you're interested (and understand technical French ), he has public classes available on Youtube so you can understand what he preaches economically. Dude has been parts or was a teacher to several Economic Sciences Nobel Prizes so it makes sense that Macron seeks its advices and to be frank, his research is interesting but very stirred towards the scandinavian model : very flexible job market, more competition between companies with less state-owned strongholds, good saftey net and benefits, more social mobility (mostly).

So I believe that's where Macron and his teams aims to drive France to. Even though I do not agree fully with Aghion's economical views (he really is a centrist though he leans to the left (a bit) on social issues), but his theories are very sound and most importantly he backs it up with data and research (I mean that's his work ) I never finished reading Piketty's book but to make it simple, him and Aghion are more or less opposites when it French economical ideas. They do agree on things but Aghion will always side with more competition and less state presence.

The issue with Macron (because the Gilets Jaunes thing is mostly a revolt against him that was triggered by specific policies like the fuel price) is not much that he tries to follow Aghion's works. It's that like the European Union in its building time, the socio-conomical reforms are first and foremost economical with no emphasis on the social part. It's at a point when even Aghion disagrees with what he's done thus far and found disappointing that he didn't focus on the social parts of his program. To be frank, the changes he wants make sense (theoritically, I agree with the Carbon tax because we need to make changes in our society to push an ecological revolution) but Macron like Sarkozy in his time believes that he could makes drastic changes in the French society without much empathy which appears brutal to the citizens. France is difficult to reform and as always been so it needs to be surgical to do so but urgency makes politician takes the butcher's way which will always be meet with resistance.

A part of being president is to be able to convince the citizens and make them accept and understand difficult policies because they are needed. But Macron like Hollande, like Chirac, like Giscard d'Estaing and many more politicians is a product of the ENA which the the "school" that makes the French elite. From that school, come from a non negligible part of our politicians, CEOs or influencers. Not every one that is from the ENA behaves that way obviously but I think Macron has this kind of arrogance of a certain elite that would make it take decisions for others that don't need explaining because it's good for them no matter they like it or not. It's a very royal approach of the president role (that is very French to be frank). We did behead several kings but deep inside, the French democracy does enjoy royalty. But not in name though

Also, Macron has against him several things :
- he's young and inexperienced as a politician. As a matter fact, he's younger than the average Frenchman (42, and he's 40 or 41).
- he was never voted in before being elected president. All his past experiences were him being "chosen"
- his past experiences are in Finance, which wouldn't be an issue if he was less of a centrist I think.

So all in all, people have this image of him that is that even if he's brilliant, he doesn't understand their day to day struggle and the violence of having to pay more for fuel or receive less aid. In the macro scale, the policies are good (in theory) but this leads to micro-scale (the individuals) impacts that Macron doesn't seem to care about. So that's why the Yellow vests protests.

Thanks breh this is fantastic insight!

You make a great point that the influence part is a key part of being a good politician.


I mentioned earlier we are facing a similar revolt over a carbon tax in Canada ( though much less traction on the ground level. Canadians outside of Quebecois - go figure - dont really have a major tradition of public protest). So in some sense how he handles this and what the final outcome could have implications for many other countries considering similar policies.

 

[FAH1223]

 

[el_oh_el]

I filled up on 1.93 gas on the Northside of Houston.

You mean 1.93 "cash" but 2.20 debit