Yellow Vest Protests in France because President Macron hiked up the tax on fossil fuels

[thatrapsfan]

Not good.


Why are foreign lefties cheering a tax revolt?

 

[88m3]

Haha yeah but it's been a long time coming tbh. Interestingly enough neither Le Pen nor Mélenchon ever really managed to appear as "anti-système", like you could say La Lega and M5S in Italy for example. Indeed, it's anyone guess to see what all of this will lead to.

The end of the fifth republic?

 

[mbewane]

The end of the fifth republic?

I doubt it will go that far, but who knows...changing the Presidential system seems like something that should seriously be considered, because I believe it creates more polarization than other systems.

 

[mbewane]

They just postponed it for 6 months, the didn't cancel it. Hoping the movement will die on its own, and this way it's after the european elections.

 

[FAH1223]

Not good.


Why are foreign lefties cheering a tax revolt?

Maybe cause of the optics? In this case, the fuel tax is part of a steady stream of price increases for the poor and middle class while their income stagnates. Meanwhile the rich are receiving one tax cut after another?

 

[thatrapsfan]

Maybe cause of the optics? In this case, the fuel tax is part of a steady stream of price increases for the poor and middle class while their income stagnates. Meanwhile the rich are receiving one tax cut after another?

I can’t speak on the particulars of the French carbon tax design, but if it’s anything like the one Canada has proposed, it ends up being progressive in the long-run with lower income people ending up with a net benefit compared to what they would pay in.

To me the major pillars of this revolt favour the right ( tho it appears no figure/party has successfully co-opted it yet). Popular sentiment against taxes and against a pro environment policy doesn’t sound like fertile left-wing terrain to me...

 

[ZoeGod]

I can’t speak on the particulars of the French carbon tax design, but if it’s anything like the one Canada has proposed, it ends up being progressive in the long-run with lower income people ending up with a net benefit compared to what they would pay in.

To me the major pillars of this revolt favour the right ( tho it appears no figure/party has successfully co-opted it yet). Popular sentiment against taxes and against a pro environment policy doesn’t sound like fertile left-wing terrain to me...

It’s a culmination of different issues. The rich in France are getting tax cuts while the middle class and poor are seeing taxes increase, cuts in their pensions, standard of living increasing meanwhile Macron is very pro buisness and has basically ignored the average French citizenry. He comes of a smug, wealthy out of touch leader. It is not progressive when the rich get tax cuts and the poor isn’t. Meanwhile the far right in France have not capitalized on this because there is leftist people angry at Macron. This is genuine anger and a buildup of rage because of his proposals. It’s just this tax was the straw that broke the back. Macron is more unpopular than Hollande ever was.

 

[88m3]

It’s a culmination of different issues. The rich in France are getting tax cuts while the middle class and poor are seeing taxes increase, cuts in their pensions, standard of living increasing meanwhile Macron is very pro buisness and has basically ignored the average French citizenry. He comes of a smug, wealthy out of touch leader. It is not progressive when the rich get tax cuts and the poor isn’t. Meanwhile the far right in France have not capitalized on this because there is leftist people angry at Macron. This is genuine anger and a buildup of rage because of his proposals. It’s just this tax was the straw that broke the back. Macron is more unpopular than Hollande ever was.

they were also paying laughably high taxes prior to the cuts and it resulted in capital flight for what it's worth

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

PTP but fukk France for what they did to Haiti.

 

[Black smoke and cac jokes]

Fanon taught me quite a bit about the French Antilles.

Didn’t know Reunion was so active. How the hell are they still a French territory?

Frantz Fanon

I forgot you got access to a bookstore all day, I envy that breh...

In regards to La Reunion; them crackas got a stronghold on the most important institutions on the island so change will be slow...very slow

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

I read him also, very sensible writer.

La Réunion is still a territory because for reasons to complex to enumerate, they would lose too much by being independent from France. It's the same reasons that Mayotte or New Caledonia voted against independance or for more inclusion into France (and Europe). That's how it is

Any writer that can influence the likes of Malcolm X is a writer worth reading.

I figured that was the reason why. I know I’m asking pretty basic questions but especially with regards to Black Francophone world there isn’t too much lit out there for me to read.

Frantz Fanon

I forgot you got access to a bookstore all day, I envy that breh...

In regards to La Reunion; them crackas got a stronghold on the most important institutions on the island so change will be slow...very slow

Lol, if it makes you feel better I spend pretty much all my time in there managing the store and ordering books so I never get to enjoy my work. I be ordering some fukkin heat too. I’m in the middle of getting my IT certs so I’m barely reading my books right now, shyt sucks...

The currently neocolonial construct of Africa is so concerning though. As these European countries squabble and destroy the planet they keep taking from the continent at unsustainable rates and it’s forcing spontaneous migration from other parts of the world all to be a part of a system that may be our downfall if left unchecked.

Back on topic tho, so now students are supposed to be joining in to air out their grievances with the education system. What’s the mood on the ground for all the French people in HL? Is this just a very vocal minority willing to be more demonstrative for the rest of the people?

Also, @thatrapsfan brought up a good point about this possibly being more right leaning in nature. French posters have said that this protest encompasses both sides. So is there a chance that sides will split on partisan issues or is the hate for Macron that strong?

 

[Black smoke and cac jokes]

Lol, if it makes you feel better I spend pretty much all my time in there managing the store and ordering books so I never get to enjoy my work. I be ordering some fukkin heat too. I’m in the middle of getting my IT certs so I’m barely reading my books right now, shyt sucks...

The currently neocolonial construct of Africa is so concerning though. As these European countries squabble and destroy the planet they keep taking from the continent at unsustainable rates and it’s forcing spontaneous migration from other parts of the world all to be a part of a system that may be our downfall if left unchecked

I feel you

I've always imagined myself in a cafe/bookstore somewhere in Africa just soaking up as much as I can when I'm done here.

Yes, I agree but I think the immediate issue is the influx of human capital to Africa currently. A middle class is growing all over the continent but it's starting to shift from natives to hired consultant staying in the country after each construction/teaching project is done. That shyt scares me the most...

Neo-colonialism is, in my opinion, unfortunately ingrained in the government bureaucracy of many African countries so it runs deeper than just the head figure being corrupt but that's for another topic.

 

[mbewane]

I can’t speak on the particulars of the French carbon tax design, but if it’s anything like the one Canada has proposed, it ends up being progressive in the long-run with lower income people ending up with a net benefit compared to what they would pay in.

To me the major pillars of this revolt favour the right ( tho it appears no figure/party has successfully co-opted it yet). Popular sentiment against taxes and against a pro environment policy doesn’t sound like fertile left-wing terrain to me...

TBH environment has become a side issue now. The tax was indeed to limit gas emissions, but the protest is about the rising cost of life and the disconnect between the government and a large part of the population. Like I said earlier, it's easier to think about making it more expensive to drive a car when you live in Paris than in the middle of nowhere where public transportation hardly exists. Also the government itself is still massively investing in fossil energy as opposed to renewables, so one can't even say the government is pro-environment and the protestors are not. No one, here in France, is approaching the issue from that angle. Some wanted to portray the protestors as being "anti-environment" but that didn't stick, because that's besides the point. The point is an overall increase in cost of life, and inequality on who pays the bill.

 

[thatrapsfan]

TBH environment has become a side issue now. The tax was indeed to limit gas emissions, but the protest is about the rising cost of life and the disconnect between the government and a large part of the population. Like I said earlier, it's easier to think about making it more expensive to drive a car when you live in Paris than in the middle of nowhere where public transportation hardly exists. Also the government itself is still massively investing in fossil energy as opposed to renewables, so one can't even say the government is pro-environment and the protestors are not. No one, here in France, is approaching the issue from that angle. Some wanted to portray the protestors as being "anti-environment" but that didn't stick, because that's besides the point. The point is an overall increase in cost of life, and inequality on who pays the bill.

Yeah I understand and acknowledge that. I just dont see how any of this should be interpreted as encouraging, for lefties across the West ( some are cheering this).

If Macron is to fail on the back of this movement, to me, it appears the most likely benefactors will be from the right rather than the left.

 

[thatrapsfan]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/france-paris-yellow-jackets-facebook

Interesting piece on the social media origins of the protest, quite the rabbit hole.