In their primes, who do you take: Nash or Jkidd

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Name anyone other then you who considered Nash great before he went to Phoenix and thought he was headed for a possible Hall of Fame career.

He wasn't great because he hadn't played enough seasons at the level he was playing at to be considered "great". If he'd continued on that same path, he would've still had a similar career to the one he had in Phoenix. Again, you're STILL not getting it. He was the system in Phoenix. He scored the same amount of points in Dallas as he did in Phoenix, his increase in efficiency is due to his natural growth/career arc and his increased assists (he averaged 7/8 in Dallas to 10/11 in Phoenix) are down to having more ball duties, playing more minutes, more freedom on offense and at a faster pace.

He had the same skillset in Dallas, he just continued to grow as a player. He had just as many 30-pt games in Dallas as he did in Phoenix per season. You keep saying the SYSTEM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM! when you're not talking about his game. Once again, you're bringing up casual fan talking points. I'm giving context, stats and references of his play in Dallas, and what kind of a player he was. All you keep saying is 'the system made him great'. Failing to realize he was the system; he was the once orchestrating the offense, he was the one running plays, he was the one creating his own shot, he was the one setting players up, he was the one creating easy baskets for his team, he was the one controlling the pace, he was the one draining jumpers, he was the one shooting ultra efficiently from every space on the floor, he was the one throwing perfect tight window passes.

You're speaking as if he's a role player benefiting from a system.

NTired of going back and forth with you but I think Kidd could have orchestrated the number 1 or at least near the top of the league type offense too if he played with Finley Dirk Jamison Walker Van Exel Lafrentz like Nash did.

This is why you simply don't understand basketball. In order to run a top ranked offense you need to be able to score/shoot efficiently and be a threat to score. Which is why shooting/scoring is important for a PG, because it's all about finding a balance of when to pass/shoot and being aggressive at the right time. Kidd was TERRIBLE at knowing when to pass/shoot, which is partly down to the fact he wasn't a competent enough scorer. It's not just about the teammates around you, it's about how you use them and when you score. Which is why Nash was still able to lead the top ranked offense in the league with starters of Raja, Marion, Diaw and Thomas, because he was one of the most efficient scorers in the league, and was aggressive when he needed to be.

Which is why CP is still leading some of the best offenses in the league near the end of his prime, and Rondo is completely incapable of leading one.

 

[Reggie]

He wasn't great because he hadn't played enough seasons at the level he was playing at to be considered "great". If he'd continued on that same path, he would've still had a similar career to the one he had in Phoenix. Again, you're STILL not getting it. He was the system in Phoenix. He scored the same amount of points in Dallas as he did in Phoenix, his increase in efficiency is due to his natural growth/career arc and his increased assists (he averaged 7/8 in Dallas to 10/11 in Phoenix) are down to having more ball duties, playing more minutes, more freedom on offense and at a faster pace.

He had the same skillset in Dallas, he just continued to grow as a player. He had just as many 30-pt games in Dallas as he did in Phoenix per season. You keep saying the SYSTEM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM, SYSTEM! when you're not talking about his game. Once again, you're bringing up casual fan talking points. I'm giving context, stats and references of his play in Dallas, and what kind of a player he was. All you keep saying is 'the system made him great'. Failing to realize he was the system; he was the once orchestrating the offense, he was the one running plays, he was the one creating his own shot, he was the one setting players up, he was the one creating easy baskets for his team, he was the one controlling the pace, he was the one draining jumpers, he was the one shooting ultra efficiently from every space on the floor, he was the one throwing perfect tight window passes.

You're speaking as if he's a role player benefiting from a system.

This is why you simply don't understand basketball. In order to run a top ranked offense you need to be able to score/shoot efficiently and be a threat to score. Which is why shooting/scoring is important for a PG, because it's all about finding a balance of when to pass/shoot and being aggressive at the right time. Kidd was TERRIBLE at knowing when to pass/shoot, which is partly down to the fact he wasn't a competent enough scorer. It's not just about the teammates around you, it's about how you use them and when you score. Which is why Nash was still able to lead the top ranked offense in the league with starters of Raja, Marion, Diaw and Thomas, because he was one of the most efficient scorers in the league, and was aggressive when he needed to be.

Which is why CP is still leading some of the best offenses in the league near the end of his prime, and Rondo is completely incapable of leading one.

And none of this still makes him better then Kidd who did more on BOTH ends of the court for a longer period of time which makes him BETTER then Steve Nash to me. I say SYSTEM SYSTEM cause Nash got a whole lot better in that SYSTEM. You can call Kidd a bad shooter (which he was) but how was he terrible at knowing when to pass/shoot when he is known as one the greatest pass first point guards ever and everyone and their mama wanted to play with him in his prime.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And none of this still makes him better then Kidd who did more on BOTH ends of the court for a longer period of time which makes him BETTER then Steve Nash to me. I say SYSTEM SYSTEM cause Nash got a whole lot better in that SYSTEM. You can call Kidd a bad shooter (which he was) but how was he terrible at knowing when to pass/shoot when he is known as one the greatest pass first point guards ever and everyone and their mama wanted to play with him in his prime.

You simply still don't get it.

 

[ManBearPig]

Kidd took Kenyon Martin, Keith Van Horn, Kerry Kittles, Lucious Harris, Todd McCallough and Richard Jefferson to the finals with AI, McGrady, and Carter all in the East.

Of course he was my favorite player on my favorite team.

This video >>> Nash.

Who the Celtics had outside Pierce and Walker?

And u can't really call Walker a contributor since he just launches threes all game

 

[Reggie]

You simply still don't get it.

And you will lose ur mind trying to get me to GET it.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And you will lose ur mind trying to get me to GET it.

Nah I won't, because you're incapable of understanding the game and it'll probably always be like that.

 

[Reggie]

Nah I won't, because you're incapable of understanding the game and it'll probably always be like that.

Nah it's cause I know the difference in an all time great vs a very good player.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Nah it's cause I know the difference in an all time great vs a very good player.

Not in this instance you certainly don't.

 

[Reggie]

Not in this instance you certainly don't.

If you say so but we don't believe you u need more people.

 

[Mars]

2002,the #1 Seed Nets made it to the finals

2003,the #2 seed Nets beat the #1 seed Pistons and made it to the finals

2004,the #2 seed nets loss to the Pistons 4 games to 3.Jason kidd was playing on a damaged knee.He underwent microfracture surgery at the end of the season.

2007,the 6 seed nets beat the 3 seed Raptors in the 1st rd.


Jason kidd's Net teams never lost a playoff series when they were the favorite.In fact,they won multiple series when they were the underdog.


2005,the #1 seed suns loss to the 2 seed spurs 4 games to 1 in the wcf

2006,the #2 seed suns loss to the 4 seed Mavricks 4 game to 2 in the wcf

2007,the #2 seed suns loss to the 3 seed spurs 4 games to 2 in the wcsf

Steve Nash ran a bunch of great offenses and still never made it to the finals despite having multiple all-stars on his team.His sun teams loss to lower seeds 3 consecutive years in the playoffs

 

[ManBearPig]

2002,the #1 Seed Nets made it to the finals

2003,the #2 seed Nets beat the #1 seed Pistons and made it to the finals

2004,the #2 seed nets loss to the Pistons 4 games to 3.Jason kidd was playing on a damaged knee.He underwent microfracture surgery at the end of the season.

2007,the 6 seed nets beat the 3 seed Raptors in the 1st rd.


Jason kidd's Net teams never lost a playoff series when they were the favorite.In fact,they won multiple series when they were the underdog.


2005,the #1 seed suns loss to the 2 seed spurs 4 games to 1 in the wcf

2006,the #2 seed suns loss to the 4 seed Mavricks 4 game to 2 in the wcf

2007,the #2 seed suns loss to the 3 seed spurs 4 games to 2 in the wcsf

Steve Nash ran a bunch of great offenses and still never made it to the finals despite having multiple all-stars on his team.His sun teams loss to lower seeds 3 consecutive years in the playoffs

The 06 mavericks had a better record


Its pointless to bring up the fact that the lost ton"lower seeds" since it was the Spurs and they ended up being the champs

Beating a 49-33 Celtics with just 2 players and bench players and a 50-32 pistons team before Rasheed Wallace and Larry Brown and rip, billups, and tayshawn before their primes are teams that the suns could have swept.

 

[Mars]

The 06 mavericks had a better record


Its pointless to bring up the fact that the lost ton"lower seeds" since it was the Spurs and they ended up being the champs

Beating a 49-33 Celtics with just 2 players and bench players and a 50-32 pistons team before Rasheed Wallace and Larry Brown and rip, billups, and tayshawn before their primes are teams that the suns could have swept.

Coulda,woulda,shoulda.....

Fact:Jason kidd took the nets to the finals two times
Fact:A past his prime,post microfracture surgery Jason kIdd helped Dallas win the championship.

Fact :Steve nash failed to get his so-called historical offensive teams to the finals on more than one occasion as the favorite

Nash is one of my favorite players of all time,but I would take kidd because he provides so many intanginbles.

shyt; J.Kidd in his last season helped the knicks win 54 games

 

[ManBearPig]

Coulda,woulda,shoulda.....

Fact:Jason kidd took the nets to the finals two times
Fact:A past his prime,post microfracture surgery Jason kIdd helped Dallas win the championship.

Fact :Steve nash failed to get his so-called historical offensive teams to the finals on more than one occasion as the favorite

Nash is one of my favorite players of all time,but I would take kidd because he provides so many intanginbles.

shyt; J.Kidd in his last season helped the knicks win 54 games

I'm not making excuses. Kidd went to the Finals by beating a bunch of teams barely above .500.

It's funny how cats clown LeBron for playing in the East despite him having to overcome teams that were 56-26 (2011 Celtics, 62-20 (2011 Bulls), 56-26 (2014 Pacers) 60-22 (2015 Hawks) But Kidd gets credentials for leading his teams above East teams that were much worse.

Nash against the Mavs in 2005 > and Kidd series.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Nash against the Mavs in 2005 > and Kidd series.

This series is a prime example of why Nash was better during his prime, not because it was only ONE series but because Kidd NEVER once played at this level at any stage of his career.

 

[Mars]

I'm not making excuses. Kidd went to the Finals by beating a bunch of teams barely above .500.

It's funny how cats clown LeBron for playing in the East despite him having to overcome teams that were 56-26 (2011 Celtics, 62-20 (2011 Bulls), 56-26 (2014 Pacers) 60-22 (2015 Hawks) But Kidd gets credentials for leading his teams above East teams that were much worse.

Nash against the Mavs in 2005 > and Kidd series.

The only thing this proves is that steve nash is a great offensive basketball player.I can post great offensive playoff performances from Rose,westbrook,Arenas,Lillard etc....It doesn't mean those players are as good as Nash/Kidd.The difference between Nash & Kidd is that you can post great offensive and defensive hightlights of kidd,you can't do that with nash.99.9% of nash's highlights are strictly offensive.

Defense and rebounding wins championships.Jason kidd was much better than steve nash in these two areas.I'm not calling Jason the greatest rebounder/defender ever,but he was far superior than Nash.You can diminish Kidd reaching the finals because he played in the eastern conference,but the fact is,Jason helped a western conference team(Dallas) win a championship,something steve nash failed to do.

Just look at the difference between nash/kidd in rebounds,steals,blocks

rebounds
kidd-8,725
nash-3,642

steals
kidd-2,684
Nash-899

Blocks
Kidd-450
nash-102


Steve nash was the better shooter,but Jason kidd still had an impact on offense.Jason kidd was the better rebounder/defender while steve nash had very little impact in these two areas.Steve nash was so bad on defense that shawn marion had to periodically guard the opposing teams pg.

This is my last post on this topic