In their primes, who do you take: Nash or Jkidd

[OG Talk]

Nash is just as good a passer but ten times the scorer. You're completely ignoring efficiency.

This is hyperbole..

Was Nash a more efficient shooter? Yes..

But he averaged a career 14ppg while Kidd averaged just under 13ppg..

Let's not rewrite history and make Nash out to be Curry..

 

[LV Koopa]

Kidd...this wouldve been a close one (or even in the Canadians favor) if Nash played like he has in Phoenix for his whole career...but his Dallas years arent anything amazing.

Good thing the topic title says IN THEIR PRIMES

 

[DlAMONDZ]

nash couldn't get those nets teams to the finals i bet

Prime Nash probably sweeps his way to the finals tbh

You only needed 50 wins to be the #1 seed in the East back then

 

[LV Koopa]

This is hyperbole..

Was Nash a more efficient shooter? Yes..

But he averaged a career 14ppg while Kidd averaged just under 13ppg..

Let's not rewrite history and make Nash out to be Curry..

breh...

Nash was in the 50/40/90 range several times while having last I checked (a while ago) 5 of the 8 top offenses in league history. There is a lot to talk about regarding usage (scoring) from the PG spot versus distribution(shot creation) but I'll keep it short - Nash's scoring blows Kidd out of the water and it isn't just by the %s. Nash was a high efficiency, mid usage PG that probably held his team back because he generally SHOULD have shot more - and he was already running GOAT level offenses. Think about how insane that is - we're talking about a guy that we really wanted to see in 05 that would look like Curry now (he wouldn't and that's another topic). Already wrecking the league offensively and he could still be somewhat faulted for not shooting enough. And then we have Kidd, a relatively low efficiency (and that's being nice) mid usage PG that we would want to shoot even less. Yes, that '13ppg' Kidd was averaging wasn't even generating enough offense to be league average. It actually might have been better if Kidd kept passing even if he was wide open for 3 - that's how bad his offense was compared to Nash. It's pretty much a Steph Curry versus Rondo situation and no one is stupid enough (this is thecoli though ) to pick the latter.

 

[OG Talk]

I thought we were done with this conversation after the Mike DAntoni sorcery was exposed after getting Jeremy Lin 17 million dollars a year?

 

[OG Talk]

breh...

Nash was in the 50/40/90 range several times while having last I checked (a while ago) 5 of the 8 top offenses in league history. There is a lot to talk about regarding usage (scoring) from the PG spot versus distribution(shot creation) but I'll keep it short - Nash's scoring blows Kidd out of the water and it isn't just by the %s. Nash was a high efficiency, mid usage PG that probably held his team back because he generally SHOULD have shot more - and he was already running GOAT level offenses. Think about how insane that is - we're talking about a guy that we really wanted to see in 05 that would look like Curry now (he wouldn't and that's another topic). Already wrecking the league offensively and he could still be somewhat faulted for not shooting enough. And then we have Kidd, a relatively low efficiency (and that's being nice) mid usage PG that we would want to shoot even less. Yes, that '13ppg' Kidd was averaging wasn't even generating enough offense to be league average. It actually might have been better if Kidd kept passing even if he was wide open for 3 - that's how bad his offense was compared to Nash. It's pretty much a Steph Curry versus Rondo situation and no one is stupid enough (this is thecoli though ) to pick the latter.

You just repeated what I already agreed on.. That Nash was a more efficient shooter..

 

[LV Koopa]

You used PPG and I had to respond to that misleading idea

Anyway, 6 of the top 12. It ain't ALL D'Antoni either

NBA's 20 Best Offenses of All Time

 

[O.T.I.S.]

Kidd because at least he played defense

 

[Kal El]

@ the replies saying Kidd's defensive edge doesn't matter

Kidd's D was nasty @ 37. He was instrumental in Dallas' Finals run

 

[Osmosis]

I'd take Nash over Kidd everyday of the week

 

[LEEeveryday]

Kidd. I get to create more mismatches, plus, I help more facets of my team with him.

I get...

Size and strength to exploit the other teams back-court
Pace
He's a floor general
Assist
Rebounding
Defense

...and just smart basketball.

 

[Osmosis]

Don't overvalue rebounding just because it's a traditional stat. Kidd's rebounding ability (he'd often grab uncontested rebounds or rebounds off his teammates) didn't have too much of an impact on the game. He was hardly ever a player that actually crashed the boards/grabbed contested rebounds. In fact he'd sometimes fall guilty of leaving his defensive assignment to go looking for boards.

This is the problem when dudes evaluate talent in basketball. It's not some comparison checklist where you get one point for being a better rebounder, one point for being a better shooter/scorer, one point for being a better passer etc etc. It's how much impact you have on the game based on your strengths (no matter how large or minimal they may be). Nash's ability to run an all-time great offense and score with the best guards in the game on insanely high efficiency had more impact than Kidd's 'defense, rebounding, making players better, scoring an average amount of points on low efficiency and intangibles' overrun narrative.

The glorifying of Kidd's rebounding prowess is funny. I mean, yeah he may have been a great rebounder but how important is a rebounding point guard? I'll take the guard that revolutionized the offensive game over a point guard that can grab rebounds

 

[Houston911]

Nash
Much better shooter
Turned a 29 win team into a 60+ win championship contender
We need to dispel with the notion that Nash was created by the system
Nash was the system
Did D'antoni have success with any other team

If "nash was the system" then why wasnt he a superstar in dallas? Why did he have better stats at age 36 than he did at 26?

Why did Jeremy lin become a household name and why did kendall marshall almost lead the league in assists?

If nash never played for d'Antoni then no one would even mention his name anymore

 

[OG Talk]

You used PPG and I had to respond to that misleading idea

The point I was responding to was that Nash being 10x the scorer was hyperbole..

When talking about SCORING, PPG is at least a pretty relevant stat in any context correct? It's not the entire story, but it just can't be dismissed..

 

[Primetime21]

To build my team around? Nash