LeBron James' MVP case grows each game he misses

[iamduval]

I can't remember an NBA player that has the burden LeBron carries

I don't think there has ever been a player that is required to do everything in order for his team to win..

Unbelievable

There's been others but mj is the only other one to win titles doing it

 

[e001]

He shouldn't win it, he sits in back-to-backs and doesn't put in the effort, also he doesn't have the numbers to win it.
Gotta give it to those who are giving their all night in and night out and putting up numbers, translating it to wins.

You take Westbrook out of the Thunder and they are a lottery team too, Rockets would struggle to make the 8th seed without Harden, both teams would probably win the ECF if they swapped places with the Cavs (Thunder could take it to 7 against the Raptors). The Rockets beat the Warriors in Oakland, can't forget that.

 

[beenz]

well no suprise. kyrie and kevin love were born losers til lebron decided to bless them with his presence.

 

[Eastside Get The Money]

Nah he pays for tickets to see NFL, MLB, and NHL teams play, not players

I guess you're right

 

[ikbm]

obviously lebron is the best player in the world...but if you give him the sixers roster or the bucks roster they arent contending for a ring..they'll come out the east...(thats the difference he can make) but they wont beat the likes of the warriors without supporting cast shooting at a high level...atleast not in a 7 game series
the roster is significantly tailored towards his skill
drive and kick.
constant doubles on him to wide open shooters. his effectiveness in that regard is understated
the cavs shoot the highest percentage from 3...because of the synergy of his ability to pass and attack the rim at a high level.
he's averaging the highest assist totals for his career for a reason.
everyone on that damn team is a deadly spot up shooter.
when lebron sits...who on that team is hitting shooters right in their shooting pockets for open jumpers? not kyrie thats for damn sure and he's the only other playmaker on that roster....he just doesnt have that skill or vision that lebron possesses.
kyrie isnt getting those 1 on 1 isolations he dominates at nearly as often when lebron is out.

 

[Draje]

He shouldn't win it, he sits in back-to-backs and doesn't put in the effort, also he doesn't have the numbers to win it.
Gotta give it to those who are giving their all night in and night out and putting up numbers, translating it to wins.

You take Westbrook out of the Thunder and they are a lottery team too, Rockets would struggle to make the 8th seed without Harden, both teams would probably win the ECF if they swapped places with the Cavs (Thunder could take it to 7 against the Raptors). The Rockets beat the Warriors in Oakland, can't forget that.

This isn't just lottery team from playoff contender.

Lebron is the difference between Cavs being NBA champs and historic comebacks against NBA record breaking tand and being in the lottery. That's huge

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This isn't just lottery team from playoff contender.

Lebron is the difference between Cavs being NBA champs and historic comebacks against NBA record breaking tand and being in the lottery. That's huge

facts...last season, the team that won it all

This is how the Cavs players performed in +/- playing with LeBron versus playing without LeBron on court over the course of the season. To me, these numbers demonstrate the true greatness of LeBron James. Without LeBron, it could be argued that the Cavs are mediocre. The team is lost without him. LeBron carried this team to the championship, not just by making a Herculean effort in the Finals, but he did it throughout the season too. LeBron is the Cavs. The Cavs are LeBron.

WITH and WITHOUT LeBron James                 
               
          WITH     min    per 48  |  WITHOUT    min   per 48  |  DIFFERENCE
Frye     + 3.9     8.2    + 22.8  |  - 2.1    10.7    - 9.4   |  +32.2
Delly    + 5.6    16.8    + 16.0  |  - 0.1     9.1    - 0.5   |  +16.5
Shumpert + 3.4    12.5    + 13.1  |  + 0.3    12.8    + 1.1   |  +11.9
Thompson + 5.6    20.7    + 13.0  |  - 0.9     8.8    - 4.9   |  +17.9
Love     + 6.7    27.4    + 11.7  |  - 0.8     6.2    - 6.2   |  +17.9
Smith    + 5.3    26.9    + 9.5   |  - 1.0     6.3    - 7.6   |  +17.1
Irving   + 4.2    23.6    + 8.5   |    0.0    10.0      0.0   |  + 8.5
Jefferso + 1.0     7.3    + 6.6   |  - 1.3    12.7    - 4.9   |  +11.5
Williams + 1.9    15.8    + 5.8   |  - 2.7     6.3    -20.6   |  +26.3

These are outrageous numbers. The kind of difference LeBron makes is huge. Without LeBron on court, each player gets net losses across the board. With him, massive positives. The difference is staggering.

As a comparison, here are the same with-without +/- stats for the other members of the "Big 3". Or perhaps "massive 1 and biggish 2"?

Irving:

WITH and WITHOUT Irving
                   
           WITH                      WITHOUT   
          "+/-"    min    per 48     "+/-"    min     per 48        DIFFERENCE
James    + 4.2    23.6    + 8.5   |  + 5.4    20.4    + 12.7    |    - 4.2
Smith    + 2.3    22.2    + 5.0   |  + 2.5    15.8     + 7.6    |    - 2.6
Thompson + 4.4    27.7    + 7.6   |  + 3.9    31.5     + 5.9    |    + 1.7
Love     + 2.8    23.1    + 5.8   |  + 3.9    17.3     +10.8    |    - 5.0
Shumpert + 1.1    13.0    + 4.1   |  + 2.4    12.8     + 9.0    |    - 4.9
Delly    + 1.4     8.8    + 7.6   |  + 4.3    19.8     +10.4    |    - 2.8
Frye     + 0.7     9.6    + 3.5   |  + 0.6     9.2     + 3.1    |    + 0.4
Jeffers  + 0.6     8.0    + 3.6   |  - 0.9    13.3     - 3.2    |    + 6.8
Willia   - 1.0     3.5    -13.7   |  - 1.0    17.6     - 2.7    |    -11.0

This doesn't paint Irving's impact on his teammates in a particularly positive light. He is getting big credit for stepping up in the Finals, but his impact based on regular season +/- is not as impressive, especially for a "superstar". Statistically, the other two of the Big 3 actually preferred when they are playing without Irving. And this applies to several others too. Dissing Irving might be a dangerous thing to do around here, so I will just say: basketball is a team game.

And Love:

WITH and WITHOUT Love
                 
           WITH                    | WITHOUT                    |
           +/-    min     per 48   | "+/-"    min    per 48     |  DIFFERENCE
James     + 6.7    27.4    + 11.7  |  + 1.8     9.7    + 8.9    |    +  2.8
Irving    + 2.8    23.1    +  5.8  |  + 1.4    10.5    + 6.4    |    -  0.6
Smith     + 3.3    23.8    +  6.7  |  + 0.9     8.4    + 5.1    |    +  1.5
Thompson  + 4.0    16.6    + 11.6  |  + 0.7    12.4    + 2.7    |    +  8.9
Shumpert  + 2.8    11.0    + 12.2  |  + 0.8    14.4    + 2.7    |    +  9.6
Delly     + 4.5    14.1    + 15.3  |  + 0.8    11.4    + 3.4    |    + 12.0
Frye      - 1.0     5.0    -  9.6  |  + 1.7    15.5    + 5.3    |    - 14.9
Jefferson + 0.1     7.5    +  0.6  |  - 0.7    11.5    - 2.9    |    +  3.6
Williams  + 1.4    14.7    +  4.6  |  - 2.4     7.1    -16.2    |    + 20.8

To honour the departing Delly, here is how the Cavs players played with and without him. Somehow Delly seems to add more value that the lesser 2 of the Big 3.

Delly:

WITH and WITHOUT Delly                         

          WITH                   |  WITHOUT                   |   
         "+/-"    min    per 48  |  "+/-"    min    per 48    |    DIFFERENCE
James     +5.6    16.8    +16.0  |   +3.0    20.4    +7.1     |    +8.9
Irving    +1.4     8.8     +7.6  |   +2.8    24.7    +5.4     |    +2.2
Smith     +3.2    12.6    +12.2  |   +1.2    19.4    +3.0     |    +9.2
Thompson  +3.0    15.2     +9.5  |   +1.6    13.8    +5.6     |    +3.9
Love      +4.5    14.1    +15.3  |   +1.4    18.5    +3.6     |   +11.7
Shumpert  +2.3    13.9     +7.9  |   +1.4    11.7    +5.7     |    +2.2
Frye      +0.3    10.7     +1.3  |   +1.0     7.7    +6.2     |    -4.9
Jeffers   +0.9    10.6     +4.1  |   -1.5     8.4    -8.6     |   +12.6
Williams  +1.8     7.3    +11.8  |   -2.4    14.7    -7.8     |   +19.7

 

[Draje]

Mike Miller and Shane Battery were HUGE in that Game 7

You're talking about single games and I'm bringing up entire playoff runs. How does Lebron NEED shooters when his first ring had his most used lineups features Wade, Haslem, Joel Anthony, and had Chris Bosh crippled shooting only .9 threes a game in the playoffs.

Battier shot 31% from 3 against NY, 27% against Indiana, and 35% against Boston..all before the Finals which where he and Mike obviously showed out but that's entirely different than my point which is that Lebron doesn't NEED shooters and is versatile enough to turn any kind of squad to contending squad.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

LeBron's teams are desgined around his talents, of course they arent gonna operate as well without him.

stop it...every team in the nba is based around the stars and noone seems to be able to explain this



with jordan the year before Record: 57-25, Finished 1st in NBA Central Division

1992-93 Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

w/o jordan the next year Record: 55-27, Finished 2nd in NBA Central Division

1993-94 Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com


...what this really shows is that Pippen was greater than we think and that Kyrie and Love are not true franchise 1 tier level players.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Mike Miller and Shane Battery were HUGE in that Game 7

I think you're getting our two clinchers mixed together. Miller showed up huge in game 5 vs Oklahoma City and Battier showed up huge in game 7 vs San Antonio when he hit 6 three posters. He did show up huge in 2012 as well though. I think he had 17 points in both games 1 and 2, in game three he drew the foul on that 3 he shot in the sequence where him and James jones both got fouled on 3's and hit all 6 free throws, and he had the steal from behind in transition in the third quarter of game 5 when the thunder were starting to rally.

 

[CrimsonTider]

Good point but let's not act like Cleveland was last crap before he got there. They did have the number one pick after all. And he got that team to the finals

Cleveland is a super team.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Scottie stayed putting the Knicks on posters. Shame that call cost them. Would've been nice to see how far they could go.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

Its not really debatable...bron has pretty much always been surrounded with shooters

every team and especially the good-great ones has snipers..this isn't anything unique unto lebron teams

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Cleveland is a super team.

I'm not talking about this team. I'm talking about his first go round in Cleveland

 

[Cladyclad]

Kyrie & Kevin are the most under deserving stars to win a ring.

This Cavs team got me mind fukked on one hand I feel 100% they would not make the playoffs without Bron. But then I say Bron is playing with two top 5 players at their position. So when I see Love or Kyrie play like superstars I discredit Bron. I gotta stop doing that shyt.

Now I'm asking myself is Kyrie and Love as good as I think they are?