The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta

[Liquid]

Yo...people still arguing for Lowry.

It's only one delusional box score reading nerd. This is one of the worst opinions I have EVER read on SOHH/Coli.

 

[FTBS]

exactly, this stat craze started 5 years ago. No one in 2003 was talking about the shyt people bring up today. they spoke of how does player X impact his team. They wasn't saying "well jason kidd is a worse player than derek fisher because his FG% is lower" or some shyt like that

right but people weren't bringing up all the trash stats today. back then people talked about FG% mostly to discredit or accept a player.

Of course they weren't talking about stats that were created after the fact back then. They weren't using Wi-Fi on their smartphone either. People were still using stats to push their agenda back then and they will be doing the same 50 years from now with stats and measures that you can't even imagine.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Of course they weren't talking about stats that were created after the fact back then. They weren't using Wi-Fi on their smartphone either. People were still using stats to push their agenda back then and they will be doing the same 50 years from now with stats and measures that you can't even imagine.

those were ivy and kobe stans. No person was bringing up fg% as to why jason kidd wasn't elite back then.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

no need to ban Gil

but breh has to stop believing that every opinion he has is also automatically a fact

I don't think my every opinion = fact (quite frankly it's more in the opposite direction), I do however think my opinion is more often than not based upon answers that y'all haven't seeked yet. Too often do I see folk whose opinions are still stuck at square one, and see, it's hard to rationalize with these folk when all they know and all they want to acknowledge is the ABCs of something and not the rest of the alphabet. If we're both looking at the same painting from a distance, but I'm 20 steps closer to the painting than you are, and I'm trying to tell you that I have a clearer viewing of what it is, and you're arguing that it's something else entirely different - I can't reason with you because you can't see what I'm looking at.

 

[Da King]

The hate Jason Kidd gets on this form is why I do not take many of the opinion seriously here, this is probably one of the more embarrassing moments in this forums history

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It's only one delusional box score reading nerd. This is one of the worst opinions I have EVER read on SOHH/Coli.

The irony of this is, I'm about the ONLY poster on this board who wants to get rid of the box score. The added irony is that I have watched more games of Kidd than every single poster on this board - that I know to be a fact.

 

[Niqqa You Gay]

The irony of this is, I'm about the ONLY poster on this board who wants to get rid of the box score. The added irony is that I have watched more games of Kidd than every single poster on this board - that I know to be a fact.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Exactly but apparently none of that matters. Ability to lead a team to wins doesn't matter or the quality of teammates. To constantly lead his team just to winning records year after year even while not playing with much talent tells me all I need to know about Kidd.

The problem with this is, he was playing against teams who didn't have much talent either. Kidd's teams won because of their defense. Not their offense. Hell, the entire EC during that period was controlled by defensive teams. It wasn't because of how great he was at getting guys involved on the offense end. It wasn't because he was a great floor general. It wasn't because he could run great offenses. It was none of that. It was simply because they had the #1 defense in 2001/02 (52-30 record), the #1 defense in 2002/03 (49-33 record), the #4 defense in 2003/04 (47-35), the #7 defense in 2004/05 (42-20 record), and the #4 defense in 2005/06 (49-33 record).

It's no coincidence that as their defense dropped, so did their record.

2001/02 Nets - 17th ranked offfense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2002/03 Nets - 18th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2003/04 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2004/05 Nets - 26th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2005/06 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 37 minutes)
2006/07 Nets - 16th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)
2007/08 Nets - 25th ranked offense (Kidd averaged 36 minutes)

Because their offense sure as hell wasn't the reason why they were winning games.

 

[FTBS]

those were ivy and kobe stans. No person was bringing up fg% as to why jason kidd wasn't elite back then.

People called him Ason . Point is people have always used stats when they suited them, there is nothing new about it.

 

[malbaker86]

no need to ban Gil

but breh has to stop believing that every opinion he has is also automatically a fact

This

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I went to Nets/Knicks games regularly when I was young'n (Kidd was one of my favorite players growing up), and I watched the league religiously back then too. Futhermore when I first identified that Rondo was a fraud (roughly about 8-9 years ago) - I thought to myself, hang on a minute - his play is strangely familiar. Then I went over a ton of tape of old Nets games and some Suns games when Kidd was playing, and much to my surprise the very thing I criticized Rondo for, Kidd was guilty of too. Now obviously Kidd was a better player than Rondo ever was, but the principles of why I saw Rondo's game for what it was, applied to Kidd. That started a chain of events where I started looking at all my childhood sporting heroes in a different light. One that wasn't of nostalgia and revisionism, but one that was drenched completely in reality.

It was at the point, I realized I really didn't know the game like I thought I did. And ever since I've been trying to look for the answers - I don't always have them but it doesn't stop me from looking. I don't like to generalize but most of the folk on this board are still stuck where I was a decade ago in terms of viewing the game. Still at square one.

 

[William F. Russell]

Somebody gets it. Today everybody wants to be a comedian so it's easy to pick at the nikka.

Lowry arguably had a better season than MVP Nash..that's how far the game had come.

The raptors were on pace to. Real ortg ratings amd finished as a top 5 offense this season. Lowry continues to be underrated

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

just curious, have you ever watched jason kidd play in his apex? You keep trying to boil him down to stats and offensive numbers which means your stats don't tell the tale of his leadership, and defense, and other intangibles he had which made him great. Equating jason kidd to a box scrore severely misses the impact he had on the game and his team. This is no diss i'm seriously curious...

Read below:

The irony of this is, I'm about the ONLY poster on this board who wants to get rid of the box score. The added irony is that I have watched more games of Kidd than every single poster on this board - that I know to be a fact.

I went to Nets/Knicks games regularly when I was young'n (Kidd was one of my favorite players growing up), and I watched the league religiously back then too. Futhermore when I first identified that Rondo was a fraud (roughly about 8-9 years ago) - I thought to myself, hang on a minute - his play is strangely familiar. Then I went over a ton of tape of old Nets games and some Suns games when Kidd was playing, and much to my surprise the very thing I criticized Rondo for, Kidd was guilty of too. Now obviously Kidd was a better player than Rondo ever was, but the principles of why I saw Rondo's game for what it was, applied to Kidd. That started a chain of events where I started looking at all my childhood sporting heroes in a different light. One that wasn't of nostalgia and revisionism, but one that was drenched completely in reality.

It was at the point, I realized I really didn't know the game like I thought I did. And ever since I've been trying to look for the answers - I don't always have them but it doesn't stop me from looking. I don't like to generalize but most of the folk on this board are still stuck where I was a decade ago in terms of viewing the game. Still at square one.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Read below:

how does rondo and kidd play alike? Kidd wasn't ball dominant and fishing out assist like rondo was. I guess the only thing they have in common is both were bad shooters (but kidd improved as he got older). Both were great passer but kidd was better defender and a much better leader than rondo was.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Who is the mod of this section? It time to get Gil-Scott-Heroin banned.

Ban @Gil Scott-Heroin for telling the truth, or should I say a closer version to the actual truth? Makes sense on this board.