The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta

G-Zeus

G-Zeus Chrystler...the brehsident
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Let me ask you a question, do you understand how ORTG works when it's applied to a player? Because I don't think you seem to know how all this works.
amount of points scored per 100 possessions based on him being on the floor :dwillhuh:


that suppose to be rocket science?


your providing " TEAM RANK" which definitely puts him in the shadow...i rather look at when he is on the floor only

when the numbers are zoom in while he is impacting the game only.
 

Walt

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This might be 1000% percent true...


But compared to Lowry
tenor.gif




I'm gonna just leave this here:

Jason Kidd vs. Kyle Lowry Comparison

I don't like Kyle Lowry, man. I'm just talking about Kidd here.
 

O.T.I.S.

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I don't like Kyle Lowry, man. I'm just talking about Kidd here.
I know but theyre comparing Kidd to Lowry. Click the link and you would see that even if all of what you said is true about Kidd, there is no real comparison
 
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I don't have a dog in this fight at all, but I do recall when J. Kidd was viewed as a perennial loser with no jumpshot. That shift to the East when it was at its weakest just as the West became a monster did wonders for his legacy. I really, really liked Kidd as a player too. I also don't like Lowry at all. Just think Kidd's legacy is a lot like Reggie Miller's in terms of narratives and numbers not matching up, exaggeration of impact, and the privileging on a couple seasons over the total body of work.
And the funny thing through this all is, I didn't like Lowry at all either (I wouldn't ever consider myself a fan of his now), in fact I thought he was a bum, albeit a legit defensive player who could playmake, but a bum nonetheless. My perception of him changed drastically as he fine-tuned his offensive game over the last 2-3 seasons and turned into one of the better PGs in the league. He went from being an inefficent, low-end scorer to a highly efficient high-end scorer, improving his scoring skillset in almost every notable area tenfold, and proved it over an extended period of time that it wasn't just a fluke.

He's not going to be an all-time great PG when it's all said and done (mostly because his resume isn't all that flash), but I can safely say that this version of him is indeed a better player than Kidd ever was. Which I mean there's A LOT of PGs throughout the modern era who had a better peak than Kidd did, but that doesn't mean I'd rank all of them ahead of Kidd on an all-time list.

:manny:
 
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Only if you're ball dominant....which Jason Kidd was not. Find a better argument.
Not true at all, especially since Kidd had the ball in his hands more than any other player on his team when he was the offensive anchor. If you're the offensive anchor, of course you're a detriment to your team's offense if you aren't a reliable/efficient scorer. It's the equivalent of having a defensive anchor and you know they can't protect the rim.......

:pachaha:
 

William F. Russell

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how does rondo and kidd play alike? Kidd wasn't ball dominant and fishing out assist like rondo was. I guess the only thing they have in common is both were bad shooters (but kidd improved as he got older). Both were great passer but kidd was better defender and a much better leader than rondo was.

Rondo and Kidd were VERY similar players. Both are pass-first PGs who, when necessary, could take on a scoring load. Both exhibited defensive prowess and were walking triple-doubles.

How do you not see that?
 
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amount of points scored per 100 possessions based on him being on the floor :dwillhuh:


that suppose to be rocket science?


your providing " TEAM RANK" which definitely puts him in the shadow...i rather look at when he is on the floor only

when the numbers are zoom in while he is impacting the game only.
It depends on what site you're getting the indvidual ORTG from - different sites have different formulas that estimate/calculate different things. That aside, how could you possibly think that Kidd had a good offensive rating everywhere he went. Have you seen his #s?

:gucci:
 

Tha Gawd Amen

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Only if you're ball dominant....which Jason Kidd was not. Find a better argument.
Even though he didn't have a USG rate similar to Kobe or Iverson, he still had the ball in his hand the most out of all his teammates. How is that a good thing when he offered nothing on offense besides passing?
 

Poitier

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Even though he didn't have a USG rate similar to Kobe or Iverson, he still had the ball in his hand the most out of all his teammates. How is that a good thing when he offered nothing on offense besides passing?

Because his roster only had finishers and he got those finishers as good a shot on a routine basis as possible given the badly-constructed rosters. And it matters that his usage wasn't crazy high because it shows he still managed to not dominate the ball despite being put in a role that could have easily called for it. Don't you think that shows IQ on Kidd's part? Seems like the issue is more so with the rosters that were put around him.
 

Poitier

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Not true at all, especially since Kidd had the ball in his hands more than any other player on his team when he was the offensive anchor. If you're the offensive anchor, of course you're a detriment to your team's offense if you aren't a reliable/efficient scorer. It's the equivalent of having a defensive anchor and you know they can't protect the rim.......

:pachaha:

Offensive anchors get compared to other offensive anchors...not their teammates. Amongst offensive anchors, Jason Kidd was far from ball dominant.
 

G-Zeus

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It depends on what site you're getting the indvidual ORTG from - different sites have different formulas that estimate/calculate different things. That aside, how could you possibly think that Kidd had a good offensive rating everywhere he went. Have you seen his #s?

:gucci:
pretty simple.. if your ORTG is above your DRTG then your doing good O is how many point is scored while your on the floor.. D is how many is allowed.. that simple..

since all you need 1 point to win.. its not a necessity of how BIG the difference is.. if your in the positive, it means you incline on the winning side...that said..his career is ORTG114 and DRTG103


now i would like to know what website uses a different algorithm on the per 100.. seems like this should be a singular formula
 
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