G-Zeus
G-Zeus Chrystler...the brehsident
you trolling?
That's not how it works. At all. You're so off the mark that I don't even see where the mark is.
The Coli Where we rank Kyle Lowry over Jason Kidd.. Scust @malta
- Thread starter cKondomsucK6
- Start date
O.T.I.S.
The Monk & The Mercenary
Did you read the link or skim through it???It's not comparing their careers, or saying that Lowry is ranked ahead of him all-time (Lowry will NOT be ranked ahead of him when it's all said and done). It's just comparing them when they were at their respective peaks. How many times does this need to be said?
Even at their peaks, the only thing Lowry did slightly better was score, since we gonna move the goalposts.
Thats literally it. You think 32 year old Lowry is going to get significantly better than Jason Kidd was "at their peaks" next season???
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
I'm not going to go through all the years:
1999/2000:
102 ORTG in 1999/00 - Kidd was the #52 ranked guard in the league
Stockton, Cassell, Hardaway, T.Brandon, Jackson, Marbury and Van Exel were all ahead of him.
2000/01:
97 ORTG in 2000/01 - Kidd was the #103 ranked guard in the league
Fisher was ranked #4th out of all guards - 110 ORTG (he only played 20 games)
Stockton was ranked #5th out of all guards - 109 ORTG
Cassell was ranked #9th out of all guards - 107 ORTG
Nash was ranked #12th out of all guards - 107 ORTG
Jason Williams was ranked #26th out of all guards - 104 ORTG
Steve Francis was ranked #29th out of all guards - 104 ORTG
Plus many more: Billups, T.Brandon, Bibby, Cassell, Payton, Miller, Stockton, Parker, Francis, Marbury etc etc.
Kidd wasn't a knockdown shooter from distance but he was far more respectable than Ricky Rubio or Rajon Rondo....this thread is getting ridiculous
You reading this too? This is unbelievable.
G-Zeus
G-Zeus Chrystler...the brehsident
00-01 team had the number 2 defensive rating
99-00 number 3rd defensive rating..
both 50+ wins seasons
not sure why ORTG should be the only stats that matters
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
He wasn't washing shyt in that postseason. Toine and Pierce were the only decent offensive players on that Celtics squad and they had to go up against the best defensive team in the league (Nets); they fought as much as they could, but they were no match for NJ, who controlled the series on the defensive end. The fact you think Kidd was this dominant player leading them to wins in that series because of his offense - you'd be horribly mistaken.
If I want to take the better player, than yes I'm taking Lowry.
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
not the equivalent, nobody is as bad a shooter. he would have similar troubles and the gameplan to guard him would be similarSo he'd be the equivalent of Ricky Rubio now??
Yall win I'm done here
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
What I'm saying is, the way you're interpreting it, isn't how it works. You can't just take an individual's ORTG and DRTG from Bbal ref and automatically think i) they have a good ORTG if it's higher than their DRTG - they can have a horrible ORTG, but if they're on a great defensive team, their DRTG can still be lower. Hence why despite Kidd having bad ORTGs, they still were above his DRTG because he played on one of the best defensive teams. And why other players might have good ORTGs, but are still lower than their DRTGs because they're on bad defensive teams ii) You can't use Bbal Ref's DRTG in that manner, it's an estimation of steals, blocks, defensive rebounds a player has, combined with the team's steals, blocks and defensive rebounds - it doesn't calculate who is actually making stops on the defensive end - just how good the team is through steals, blocks and defensive rebounds. E.g. a player who grabs the defensive rebound will be more favored in the DRTG stat than the player(s) who guards and contest the shot and box the opposition out.
The estimation for ORTG are more centered around what the invididual does, whereas the estimation for DRG is centered around the team's efforts. Never mind the fact DRTG should really only be used for defensive anchors, and even then there should be a heavy amount of context applied.
And where are you getting this "ORTG114 and DRTG103" from for Kidd?
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
I think you should refrain from using stats altogether. You don't even understand even the very basics of them.
Because Kidd and Lowry are main ball-handlers/offensive anchors, we're comparing what impact they had on offense. They weren't defensive anchors (well, actually in Kidd's case he did play a pivotal part in his team's defense, but that's besides the point). You're just proving my point even more, those Nets teams won because of how good they were on defense, which Kidd contributed too, however it was a TEAM effort on why they were great on defense. They weren't winning because of how great Kidd was on the offensive end, because he wasn't. Their team defense was why they won games.
KRiLL (+)
Yo! Ho! Ho!
Curry has passed Kidd in my book but foh with this Draymond shyt, nikka is a product of his surroundings...
this nikka take this way too serious, nikka fighting off sleep to demand answers outta nikkas...he probably went to sleep
it's something to do you know....sleep
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
What I'm saying is, Kidd didn't wash Toine and Pierce (like @Pookie said), and that the Celtics only had two legitimate offensive players going up against the best defensive team in the league, which is why they ended up losing because they couldn't generate enough offense. Not because Kidd was washing Toine and Pierce on offense.
Gil Scott-Heroin
Veteran
How does this make any any sense when you said "only thing Lowry does better then JKidd is score"? Aren't you of the belief that the only thing Curry does better than Kidd is score?Curry has passed Kidd in my book but foh with this Draymond shyt, nikka is a product of his surroundings...