Stop deflecting. The point is, Kidd was the offensive anchor of those Nets squads. The fact he wasn't a reliable/efficient scorer affected his team's offense because he was the anchor on that end. I don't know how you can argue against this?
Did you read the link or skim through it???
Even at their peaks, the only thing Lowry did slightly better was score, since we gonna move the goalposts.
Thats literally it. You think 32 year old Lowry is going to get significantly better than Jason Kidd was "at their peaks" next season???
they are actually BOTH used for indiviual.
What I'm saying is, the way you're interpreting it, isn't how it works. You can't just take an individual's ORTG and DRTG from Bbal ref and automatically think i) they have a good ORTG if it's higher than their DRTG - they can have a horrible ORTG, but if they're on a great defensive team, their DRTG can still be lower. Hence why despite Kidd having bad ORTGs, they still were above his DRTG because he played on one of the best defensive teams. And why other players might have good ORTGs, but are still lower than their DRTGs because they're on bad defensive teams ii) You can't use Bbal Ref's DRTG in that manner, it's an estimation of steals, blocks, defensive rebounds a player has, combined with the team's steals, blocks and defensive rebounds - it doesn't calculate who is actually making stops on the defensive end - just how good the team is through steals, blocks and defensive rebounds. E.g. a player who grabs the defensive rebound will be more favored in the DRTG stat than the player(s) who guards and contest the shot and box the opposition out.
The estimation for ORTG are more centered around what the invididual does, whereas the estimation for DRG is centered around the team's efforts. Never mind the fact DRTG should really only be used for defensive anchors, and even then there should be a heavy amount of context applied.
And where are you getting this "ORTG114 and DRTG103" from for Kidd?
You're still not understanding how it works, nobody would even remotely try to connect the two on some "if your ORTG is above your DRTG then your doing good O is how many point is scored while your on the floor.. D is how many is allowed.. that simple..". The formulas for BBall Reference's ORTG is based on how many points a player scores per 100 scoring posessions. The formula for Bball Reference's DRTG is based on how many steals, blocks and DREB a player gets + the team's steals, blocks and DREB, their opposition's FG%, and the oppositions OREB. The forumla for DRTG is not an individual measure of a player's defense, like ORTG is for a player's scoring. You understand?
First of all, the change in defense wasn't simply down to the depature/arrival of Kidd, there were multiple personnel changes and players coming back from injury either when he left Phoenix and/or when he arrived in NJ. But let's not get into the details of that. Yes, he most definitely gets credit for that, he's one of the greatest defensive PGs to ever play the game. However, as a PG who's the team's main ball-handler/offensive anchor, the impact you have on the game and the skillset that is most essential is mostly on the offensive end, as a PG's defense is the least important out of 5 positions. It's why Magic is the greatest PG to ever play the game, because the impact he had on offense despite only being an average defender on his best day.
at you still holding a grudge after I clowned you over all that Rondo shyt you said years ago. Pathetic.The problem with this is, a team has to outscore the other no matter how bad the offensive play is. The Nets weren't winning games because of their offense, they were average-to-horrible offensively. They got by due to strangling the life out of their opponents on defense. They basically turned it into a contest of whoever had the least shyttiest offense would win.
Of course they would. Lowry is an outstanding defender, not as good as Kidd was at his defensive peak. But I'm not so sure that Kidd was even at his defensive peak in '02. Nevertheless whatever minnimal amount the Nets lost on defense, not only would've been made up by the other defenders on the team, but made up by Lowry's added contributions on the offensive end and then some. I think you forget just how horrible the EC was during the early-'00s.
At their peaks, shyt ah you can make an argument for a # of them: Nash, Payton, Stockton, Hardaway, Billups, Parker.
