2014 Nba Off Season Thread

[Malta]

I just don't see him becoming "big" enough to play the 5. I see him as an Ibaka type player, if he can work on hitting that 15 foot jumper. I saw he actually hit a jumper in the summer league which is a good sign because he was one of the wost shooting bigs I've seen at ky

Me either, he's got a more narrow frame than Davis and is only 3/4th of an inch taller, and nobody thinks Davis can defend 5s full time -

Davis has the frame that can get up to around 250lbs, Noel just doesn't have it, and centers are north of 260lbs now.

 

[SchoolboyC]

Scroll up breh, I posted his starting stats.

They could play hardball and lose Love for nothing at all though, they are the ones with the risk here, not the Cavs. I feel like that's an even deal seeing as how the alternatives are lose Love for nada, get back Klay Thompson and max him out, or except the Celtics trade which is without those Brooklyn picks.

Getting back Wiggins, Bennett and picks is fair even if it means they have to give up Dieng, because at the end of the day they are going to lose Love, he's not re-signing so at it's core it's like trading Dieng by himself for those 2.

I just don't think Cleveland has enough leverage to pull off getting Love & Dieng. Like I don't see any chance they get both of them.

And in general I don't think the leverage is 100% in Cleveland's favor either. If I'm Minnesota I look at it as Cleveland really has nothing to offer other than Wiggins (Bennett is trash, Tristan is a dime a dozen, Waiters is your basic volume scorer with added attitude problems, Varejao is 32 and injury prone, all of the picks will be late 1st rounders most likely) and also I'd say their chances of getting Love go down significantly if he hits free agency. Plus I don't think they'll be able to afford Love anyway if he hits free agency without having to gut their team. Because I very much doubt Love will take a paycut.

 

[Dr. Fauci]

Me either, he's got a more narrow frame than Davis and is only 3/4th of an inch taller, and nobody thinks Davis can defend 5s full time -

Davis has the frame that can get up to around 250lbs, Noel just doesn't have it, and centers are north of 260lbs now.

Noel at the 4, Embiid at the 5


Noel would be an offensive liability in terms of spacing, but he can run the PnR, monster on the boards, thats a scary defensive team...we have Saric coming over to be an oversized 3 (per Brent Brown).. lottery pick next year. Very long, very athletic.


We're gonna be a problem very soon

 

[Malta]

I just don't think Cleveland has enough leverage to pull off getting Love & Dieng. Like I don't see any chance they get both of them.

And in general I don't think the leverage is 100% in Cleveland's favor either. If I'm Minnesota I look at it as Cleveland really has nothing to offer other than Wiggins (Bennett is trash, Tristan is a dime a dozen, Waiters is your basic volume scorer with added attitude problems, Varejao is 32 and injury prone, all of the picks will be late 1st rounders most likely) and also I'd say their chances of getting Love go down significantly if he hits free agency.

They have the best trade piece available for a player the Wolves are going to lose either way, that's great leverage.


Most people agree the Cavs aren't winning the title next year with or without Love, so I feel like if they just took a step back and looked at the situation they'd realize they do in fact have all the leverage. You can say they have nothing to offer other than Wiggins, but he is such a huge trade piece that realistically that's more than enough, I mean if the salaries matched up nobody would bat an eye if it was a 1 to 1 trade right now.

In addition to Bennett, they are getting back pick(s), also it depends on the picks, they own the Heat pick next year which is 1-10 protected for 2 years, then completely unprotected for 2017. That is worth more than Dieng

 

[SchoolboyC]

They have the best trade piece available for a player the Wolves are going to lose either way, that's great leverage.


Most people agree the Cavs aren't winning the title next year with or without Love, so I feel like if they just took a step back and looked at the situation they'd realize they do in fact have all the leverage. You can say they have nothing to offer other than Wiggins, but he is such a huge trade piece that realistically that's more than enough, I mean if the salaries matched up nobody would bat an eye if it was a 1 to 1 trade right now.

In addition to Bennett, they are getting back pick(s), also it depends on the picks, they own the Heat pick next year which is 1-10 protected for 2 years, then completely unprotected for 2017. That is worth more than Dieng

You're right, the Wolves probably would trade Love for Wiggins straight up.

Bennett sucks though, I feel like the only people that don't realize this are Cavs fans which isn't suprising since fans generally overrate the young players on their team. I disagree about the pick being worth more than Dieng as well.

Also would like to point out that it would be impossible to do just Wiggins + Bennett + picks for Love & Dieng. The Cavs would either have to add Varejao, which I don't see likely because of his relationship with LeBron, or they would pretty much have to add Thompson, Waiters & Haywood. Unless a 3rd team got involved.

 

[Sensitive Blake Griffin]

Me either, he's got a more narrow frame than Davis and is only 3/4th of an inch taller, and nobody thinks Davis can defend 5s full time -

Davis has the frame that can get up to around 250lbs, Noel just doesn't have it, and centers are north of 260lbs now.

embiid and noel could be a great combination at PF/C though thats for damn sure. I really hope they both stay healthy

 

[NatiboyB]

You're right, the Wolves probably would trade Love for Wiggins straight up.

Bennett sucks though, I feel like the only people that don't realize this are Cavs fans which isn't suprising since fans generally overrate the young players on their team. I disagree about the pick being worth more than Dieng as well.

Also would like to point out that it would be impossible to do just Wiggins + Bennett + picks for Love & Dieng. The Cavs would either have to add Varejao, which I don't see likely because of his relationship with LeBron, or they would pretty much have to add Thompson, Waiters & Haywood. Unless a 3rd team got involved.

We all admit that he sucked last season..but he seems to be a lot more explosive and confident right now and is showing that potential...So a lot of us are seeing value in him....But yes he had the worst season Ive ever seen for a top 2 pick.

 

[Malta]

You're right, the Wolves probably would trade Love for Wiggins straight up.

Bennett sucks though, I feel like the only people that don't realize this are Cavs fans which isn't suprising since fans generally overrate the young players on their team. I disagree about the pick being worth more than Dieng as well.

Also would like to point out that it would be impossible to do just Wiggins + Bennett + picks for Love & Dieng. The Cavs would either have to add Varejao, which I don't see likely because of his relationship with LeBron, or they would pretty much have to add Thompson, Waiters & Haywood. Unless a 3rd team got involved.

I don't think he sucks, he had a bad year with some odd circumstances, what you can say about him is that he may not have mental toughness, but if he improves and overcomes that rookie season he had then well

Nah, Wiggins starting salary should be around $5.6 million and Bennett's is $5.5 million while Dieng is making $1.4 million, a trade of Tristan + Bennett in for Love/Dieng works, Wiggins will be making more than Tristan next season.

 

[SchoolboyC]

I don't think he sucks, he had a bad year with some odd circumstances, what you can say about him is that he may not have mental toughness, but if he improves and overcomes that rookie season he had then well

Nah, Wiggins starting salary should be around $5.6 million and Bennett's is $5.5 million while Dieng is making $1.4 million, a trade of Tristan + Bennett in for Love/Dieng works, Wiggins will be making more than Tristan next season.

See I was using the numbers now, Wiggins hasn't signed yet so if they did it now they would have to add more salary.

 

[Malta]

See I was using the numbers now, Wiggins hasn't signed yet so if they did it now they would have to add more salary.

They'd have to sign him regardless, a Bennett + Wiggins (unsigned) + picks for Love trade wouldn't work without Wiggins rookie salary.

 

[SchoolboyC]

They'd have to sign him regardless, a Bennett + Wiggins (unsigned) + picks for Love trade wouldn't work without Wiggins rookie salary.

I know that's why I said Cleveland would have to add more salary if they did it now.

But if they signed Wiggins they'd have to wait, I think a month before they could trade him.

 

[Malta]

I know that's why I said Cleveland would have to add more salary if they did it now.

But if they signed Wiggins they'd have to wait, I think a month before they could trade him.

30 days.

The reported offer was Bennett+Wiggins, so they are more than likely going to sign him to trade him. If they add anything else to the trade, they damn sure better get back Dieng......

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It can work breh, they have to start addressing 1-3 and getting shooters at those positions, that is really what will decide if it can work or not. If you can get good shooters at PG, SG and SF there's less pressure on Noel to become a good shooter, he'd simply have to be right around average.

While I do agree, that's basically the only possibility of it working: if the plan is to load up on competent shooters at 1-3, on the basis of counting on Noel to exercise that space of being an average shooter - when the league is constantly trending more towards 4s that can stretch the floor - than that really isn't a smart, forward-thinking plan to begin with. Plus MCW seems to be part of Hinkie's long-term plans at this point, and his shooting leaves a lot to be desired - which could be another wasted linchpin of opportunity of drafting/signing more suitable fits, which will lead to more time being lost during that period that this Wallflower exercise is put into action and results.

I'd like to think all that planning and tanking is more secure than banking on the success of:

MCW to develop his shooting past the PG average + overcompensate for frontcourt while they go through growing pains
Noel to stay healthy
Embiid to stay healthy
Noel/Embiid to stay healthy together, over a long enough period of time to go through the process of trial and error
Noel to develop a jump shot
Embiid to turn into a low-block offensive threat, that you can hang your hat on

The Hakeem/Thorpe duo was pretty potent with Hakeem taking the baseline jumpers, and Thorpe didn't have a good jumper, his was just decent but it didn't matter much because they had shooters everywhere else.

That was 20+ years ago, and that only worked because when they came together: Hakeem had already established himself as a force in the league + he was entering his prime (Embiid will be at neither point when he returns) and Thorpe had already proven his worth as 20 ppg scorer. Hinkie won't be afforded those vantage points - there'll be nothing there for him to persist past two seasons with (if/when it doesn't work).

You will not take this hope from me, I will hold out until it crashes and burns.

*pulls up Embiid's medical files*

That hope is better off being used for more immediate things, like making sure Embiid can actually stay on the court.

 

[Heelmatic]

Getting to work with J Kidd should be great for Kendall

 

[#1 pick]

Me either, he's got a more narrow frame than Davis and is only 3/4th of an inch taller, and nobody thinks Davis can defend 5s full time -

Davis has the frame that can get up to around 250lbs, Noel just doesn't have it, and centers are north of 260lbs now.

Naw breh, Noel skill-set is center and he has core strength that Davis lacks.