The Plug
plug couldnt trust you now u cant trust the plug
What it means to me is irrelevant because I never claimed it was gibberish.
Even reading the lyrics it all makes sense.
I'll wait for you to actually prove that this is how he normally raps.
Can someone explain "fake deep" to me
- Thread starter dora_da_destroyer
- Start date
Even reading the lyrics it all makes sense.
I'll wait for you to actually prove that this is how he normally raps.
Young Thug has insightful commentary?
Deep? No. Insightful? Yes. Emotional? Yes. Melodic? Yes. Danceable? Yes.
Kendrick could never.
who killin it?
the fakes get exposed
no, he's trying to assemble a megazord of fake deep dummies that think like him.
The Plug
plug couldnt trust you now u cant trust the plug
@4d 6f 6e 65 79 stop dap and rep harvesting
FruitOfTheVale
Superstar
The Plug
plug couldnt trust you now u cant trust the plug
@FruitOfTheVale How did you feel about authors tackling subjects outside of their personal experiences while using different characters in other mediums?
FruitOfTheVale
Superstar
Can you give a specific example?
The Plug
plug couldnt trust you now u cant trust the plug
The wire, the godfather
Biscayne
Ocean air
See, you interpret this as genius because it forces one to study up on why he would mention geographic location and why certain entities would meet there. But if one is already well read, than wouldn't this verse just come across as the typical "I know something about the government that y'all dummies need to read up on" fake deep nonsense?
This just goes back to what is labeled as "fake deep" vs "real deep" being beholden to the biases the beholder has towards certain artists....
the average black male doesn't group up in an impoverished environment.
That is fake deep. Do the research, stop spouting these racist talking points about blacks. All of and the majority of use don't grow up poor with no parental guidance. Most of us aren't criminals or so poor we have to turn to criminality.
How did I know this thread would be filled to the brim with kendrick haters mad because he gets the acclaim they want their favorite rappers to get 
USSInsiders
Banned
Not at all. Take a psuedo-intellectual retard like Talib Kweli talking like he's some genius on Sway last week about critical race theory when he's regurtitating marxist rhetoric. Basically the typical high school/college dropout rappers gassed up because they can vomit out some "smart shyt" they heard someone say.
The Plug
plug couldnt trust you now u cant trust the plug
This Is also true and why the Ross example was dumb
FruitOfTheVale
Superstar
It's a difficult comparison because a lot of the writers for these types of screenplays are writing from experience. City of God for example was penned by Paulo Lins, he grew up in the Cidade de Deus slum during the exact period he's writing about and shared a lot in common with his Rocket character. John Singleton on the other hand was raised in an affluent household in LA a world away from his Trey character.
One thing that's significantly different about film is that the actors are able to tweak the dialogue until it's natural for themselves. The way a script reads on paper is often very different from the way the dialogue is actually represented in the film. Same with tics, mannerisms, etc. They tend to be specific to the actor so ultimately if the casting is good they can float above the material even when its poorly written. A character actor will often talk to dozens of people who they think will relate to the character they're playing before they start putting their performance together.
With your two specific examples, Mario Puzo obviously got a lot of shyt for not actually coming from the Mafia background despite being an Italian who grew up in Hells Kitchen when it was poor and had the mafia element. His sensationalized romantic version of the mafia had a very lasting impact on the way that Italian organized crime is perceived worldwide and depending on how you look at it not for the better. That being said, a lot of the actors involved in the film did come from the mafia background and again they likely tweaked certain scenes in Coppola's film adaptation to be more natural. Films are much more collaborative efforts than rap albums... A rap album is specifically the POV of the rapper so it is a little different.
ogc163
Superstar
I've posted about this issue several times before, but before I get into what I feel is "fake deep" I'll do what OP initially asked for and provide examples of some songs I feel are actually "real deep".
--Not the whole song but specifically Phonte's verse. Here Phonte is rapping about how he is perceived as "safe" by his own community and "dangerous/unentertaining" by the white community and calls out the biggest Black media company at the time (BET) while acknowledging he is struggling within the dominant paradigm but is so fed up he doesn't care who he offends.
Phonte avoids the common pitfall of many conscious rappers in that he doesn't find the need to be explicitly or implicitly condescending to the Black community to articulate his lack of success. The verse aside from not just being technically sound but given the subsequent interviews by the group members, it became apparent that yes, in fact, record labels didn't want to push LB mainly because of the outspokenness of Phonte.
Why do I find it deep despite it not being heavy handed or dealing with a subject usually deemed deep? Because Phonte is risking a lot personally just by spitting the verse and also explaining the multiple ways he is being shortchanged.
--Here Pooh raps about his recently freed former convict brother, Pooh doesn't feel the need to go all abstract and macro but instead provides the concrete imagery of his bro having to work a fast food job. He also points out that his success is his and his alone and the unfortunate truth is that his brother will have to find his own path to success.
Compare that to J.Cole's handling of a similar topic
Why does Cole feel that nikkas from his old neighborhood are "dead inside...alive but only corpses inside?" This is dismissive on his part and is a common theme throughout his music...Whereas Pooh makes no attempts at doing any moral grandstanding and provides the listener with a neat ending that doesn't lead to him being some type of gladiator hero and condescending winner riddled with survivor's remorse.
--Here Phonte raps about "making it" and describes a conversation with dudes who are stuck and assume "The Minstrel Show" title is a shot at them. His explanation could have gone off on a tangent about the evils of capitalism or the impact of slavery, but instead in the verse he credits his family and talent and does not go into how these dudes are..."dead inside".
--While this starts off braggadocious in the typical "I'm real and you not" vein, the latter part of Malice's classic verse showcases the moral deliberations of a crack dealer. This verse is a stand out because it shows that on some level there is remorse and guilt. Malice didn't have to cite Ayn Rand or Murray Rothbard to make sense of the market paradigm that he is a part of, he understands on a basic level the concepts of supply and demand. He feels morally he ain't shyt but there is a market demand that he can/will satisfy.
This verse is deep because it's multi-layered, as it brings to light concepts of addiction, self-interest, market forces, and ego while not going off the deep end about Ronald Reagan and the CIA.
I've posted about the problems in the rhetoric in the music of the current conscious rappers, it can be shallow but also condescending. I don't necessarily have an issue with the topics that are discussed in many of these songs, but I am turned off when they offer solutions that are ridiculous and short sighted. But that has been a major part of rap music for years now, and I will never look to music for policy insight.
The main issue I have over the last several years is the moral grandstanding that has become prevalent in conscious rap, with verses putting forward the notion that the position that poor Black people find themselves in is primarily culturally self-inflicted. It is misguided and sometimes borders ridiculous, and this is coming from someone who probably leans to the right of most MC's. Modern conscious rap has co-opted the tired tropes of traditionalism coupled with the rhetoric of intersectionalism making for a strange combo.
--Not the whole song but specifically Phonte's verse. Here Phonte is rapping about how he is perceived as "safe" by his own community and "dangerous/unentertaining" by the white community and calls out the biggest Black media company at the time (BET) while acknowledging he is struggling within the dominant paradigm but is so fed up he doesn't care who he offends.
Phonte avoids the common pitfall of many conscious rappers in that he doesn't find the need to be explicitly or implicitly condescending to the Black community to articulate his lack of success. The verse aside from not just being technically sound but given the subsequent interviews by the group members, it became apparent that yes, in fact, record labels didn't want to push LB mainly because of the outspokenness of Phonte.
Why do I find it deep despite it not being heavy handed or dealing with a subject usually deemed deep? Because Phonte is risking a lot personally just by spitting the verse and also explaining the multiple ways he is being shortchanged.
--Here Pooh raps about his recently freed former convict brother, Pooh doesn't feel the need to go all abstract and macro but instead provides the concrete imagery of his bro having to work a fast food job. He also points out that his success is his and his alone and the unfortunate truth is that his brother will have to find his own path to success.
Compare that to J.Cole's handling of a similar topic
Why does Cole feel that nikkas from his old neighborhood are "dead inside...alive but only corpses inside?" This is dismissive on his part and is a common theme throughout his music...Whereas Pooh makes no attempts at doing any moral grandstanding and provides the listener with a neat ending that doesn't lead to him being some type of gladiator hero and condescending winner riddled with survivor's remorse.
--Here Phonte raps about "making it" and describes a conversation with dudes who are stuck and assume "The Minstrel Show" title is a shot at them. His explanation could have gone off on a tangent about the evils of capitalism or the impact of slavery, but instead in the verse he credits his family and talent and does not go into how these dudes are..."dead inside".
--While this starts off braggadocious in the typical "I'm real and you not" vein, the latter part of Malice's classic verse showcases the moral deliberations of a crack dealer. This verse is a stand out because it shows that on some level there is remorse and guilt. Malice didn't have to cite Ayn Rand or Murray Rothbard to make sense of the market paradigm that he is a part of, he understands on a basic level the concepts of supply and demand. He feels morally he ain't shyt but there is a market demand that he can/will satisfy.
This verse is deep because it's multi-layered, as it brings to light concepts of addiction, self-interest, market forces, and ego while not going off the deep end about Ronald Reagan and the CIA.
I've posted about the problems in the rhetoric in the music of the current conscious rappers, it can be shallow but also condescending. I don't necessarily have an issue with the topics that are discussed in many of these songs, but I am turned off when they offer solutions that are ridiculous and short sighted. But that has been a major part of rap music for years now, and I will never look to music for policy insight.
The main issue I have over the last several years is the moral grandstanding that has become prevalent in conscious rap, with verses putting forward the notion that the position that poor Black people find themselves in is primarily culturally self-inflicted. It is misguided and sometimes borders ridiculous, and this is coming from someone who probably leans to the right of most MC's. Modern conscious rap has co-opted the tired tropes of traditionalism coupled with the rhetoric of intersectionalism making for a strange combo.