The Plug

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It's a difficult comparison because a lot of the writers for these types of screenplays are writing from experience. City of God for example was penned by Paulo Lins, he grew up in the Cidade de Deus slum during the exact period he's writing about and shared a lot in common with his Rocket character. John Singleton on the other hand was raised in an affluent household in LA a world away from his Trey character.

One thing that's significantly different about film is that the actors are able to tweak the dialogue until it's natural for themselves. The way a script reads on paper is often very different from the way the dialogue is actually represented in the film. Same with tics, mannerisms, etc. They tend to be specific to the actor so ultimately if the casting is good they can float above the material even when its poorly written. A character actor will often talk to dozens of people who they think will relate to the character they're playing before they start putting their performance together.

With your two specific examples, Mario Puzo obviously got a lot of shyt for not actually coming from the Mafia background despite being an Italian who grew up in Hells Kitchen when it was poor and had the mafia element. His sensationalized romantic version of the mafia had a very lasting impact on the way that Italian organized crime is perceived worldwide and depending on how you look at it not for the better. That being said, a lot of the actors involved in the film did come from the mafia background and again they likely tweaked certain scenes in Coppola's film adaptation to be more natural. Films are much more collaborative efforts than rap albums... A rap album is specifically the POV of the rapper so it is a little different.


A rap album is also a collaborative process, music isn't created in a void.

Now with what you've written, do you not think a Kendrick talked to other people before or while writing his music? They would obviously influence all the stories he's written especially the ones in 3rd person.
 

dora_da_destroyer

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I've posted about this issue several times before, but before I get into what I feel is "fake deep" I'll do what OP initially asked for and provide examples of some songs I feel are actually "real deep".



--Not the whole song but specifically Phonte's verse. Here Phonte is rapping about how he is perceived as "safe" by his own community and "dangerous/unentertaining" by the white community and calls out the biggest Black media company at the time (BET) while acknowledging he is struggling within the dominant paradigm but is so fed up he doesn't care who he offends.

Phonte avoids the common pitfall of many conscious rappers in that he doesn't find the need to be explicitly or implicitly condescending to the Black community to articulate his lack of success. The verse aside from not just being technically sound but given the subsequent interviews by the group members, it became apparent that yes, in fact, record labels didn't want to push LB mainly because of the outspokenness of Phonte.

Why do I find it deep despite it not being heavy handed or dealing with a subject usually deemed deep? Because Phonte is risking a lot personally just by spitting the verse and also explaining the multiple ways he is being shortchanged.



--Here Pooh raps about his recently freed former convict brother, Pooh doesn't feel the need to go all abstract and macro but instead provides the concrete imagery of his bro having to work a fast food job. He also points out that his success is his and his alone and the unfortunate truth is that his brother will have to find his own path to success.

Compare that to J.Cole's handling of a similar topic

Why does Cole feel that nikkas from his old neighborhood are "dead inside...alive but only corpses inside?" This is dismissive on his part and is a common theme throughout his music...Whereas Pooh makes no attempts at doing any moral grandstanding and provides the listener with a neat ending that doesn't lead to him being some type of gladiator hero and condescending winner riddled with survivor's remorse.



--Here Phonte raps about "making it" and describes a conversation with dudes who are stuck and assume "The Minstrel Show" title is a shot at them. His explanation could have gone off on a tangent about the evils of capitalism or the impact of slavery, but instead in the verse he credits his family and talent and does not go into how these dudes are..."dead inside".



--While this starts off braggadocious in the typical "I'm real and you not" vein, the latter part of Malice's classic verse showcases the moral deliberations of a crack dealer. This verse is a stand out because it shows that on some level there is remorse and guilt. Malice didn't have to cite Ayn Rand or Murray Rothbard to make sense of the market paradigm that he is a part of, he understands on a basic level the concepts of supply and demand. He feels morally he ain't shyt but there is a market demand that he can/will satisfy.

This verse is deep because it's multi-layered, as it brings to light concepts of addiction, self-interest, market forces, and ego while not going off the deep end about Ronald Reagan and the CIA.

I've posted about the problems in the rhetoric in the music of the current conscious rappers, it can be shallow but also condescending. I don't necessarily have an issue with the topics that are discussed in many of these songs, but I am turned off when they offer solutions that are ridiculous and short sighted. But that has been a major part of rap music for years now, and I will never look to music for policy insight.

The main issue I have over the last several years is the moral grandstanding that has become prevalent in conscious rap, with verses putting forward the notion that the position that poor Black people find themselves in is primarily culturally self-inflicted. It is misguided and sometimes borders ridiculous, and this is coming from someone who probably leans to the right of most MC's. Modern conscious rap has co-opted the tired tropes of traditionalism coupled with the rhetoric of intersectionalism making for a strange combo.

I disagree with some of your points but I'd like to thank you for actually going through and posting examples of each and why you feel the way you do.
 

Dominic Brehetto

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You'd enjoy this site much more if you blocked me.

The truth is that you love me. :mjgrin:
No I wouldn't.


I enjoy pointing out what a fraud of a poster you are and getting all the daps and reps in response.


Nobody here takes you seriously. That's why you're always in the red,constantly changing names, nominated and multiple woat winning. You're an easy mark to make fun of. You're probably autistic to be honest. I just feel bad for you.









Syke. I don't feel bad. fakkit.

















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What Kendrick is. What beyonce is. What Janelle Monae is. What Afrika Bambaata is. It basically means a pseudo intellectual, who tries to feign being intelligent and give the "appearance" of talking about some real shyt, when in reality they ain't saying shyt profound. Kendrick is fake deep. He'll talk about BLM, and other more "mainstream" issues that circulate within the consciousness of the black zeitgeist; but he wouldn't dare call out the clintons, talk about the bullshyt that is BLM, or just call shyt for what it really is.
 
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I'd say Runaway Love from Luda is fake deep, honestly didn't sound like a sincere attempt at a more meaningful song.

The same with that bullshyt Dj Quik made with "Black Friday." That shyt was such a halfass attempt to appear sincere... Just him trying to appear "conscious" was felt completely odd and out of place.
 

The Plug

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What Kendrick is. What beyonce is. What Janelle Monae is. What Afrika Bambaata is. It basically means a pseudo intellectual, who tries to feign being intelligent and give the "appearance" of talking about some real shyt, when in reality they ain't saying shyt profound. Kendrick is fake deep. He'll talk about BLM, and other more "mainstream" issues that circulate within the consciousness of the black zeitgeist; but he wouldn't dare call out the clintons, talk about the bullshyt that is BLM, or just call shyt for what it really is.
Has Kendrick ever actually talked about BLM? How is Beyonce of all people a pseudo intellectual?
 

FruitOfTheVale

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A rap album is also a collaborative process, music isn't created in a void.

Now with what you've written, do you not think a Kendrick talked to other people before or while writing his music? They would obviously influence all the stories he's written especially the ones in 3rd person.

Ehhhh... a typical rap album is not collaborative in the same sort of way that a film is. A producer will often throw out ideas for hooks, bridges, samples, etc. but the main writing on the album is typically in the hands of the rapper and the rapper only.

In a film, the actor is charged with becoming the character. Their only job is to make the character real... The director will tell them what he wants out of a performance but the actor's job is to ground the performance in the "reality" of the character. He has some license to rewrite some of the dialogue in his own words.
 

DeuceCypherUno

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Straight out the fukkin' dungeons of rap
So all i got from the thread is this.

IF you rap about the hood, you're fake deep

if you don't rap about the hood, you're fake deep.

if you rap about serious subjects in simple manners, you're "fake deep" because you're not giving enough insight

IF you rap about it in complicated manners, you're "fake deep" because you're try too hard to be lyrical


i'm telling y'all, it don't exist.
 

DeuceCypherUno

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Straight out the fukkin' dungeons of rap
What Kendrick is. What beyonce is. What Janelle Monae is. What Afrika Bambaata is. It basically means a pseudo intellectual, who tries to feign being intelligent and give the "appearance" of talking about some real shyt, when in reality they ain't saying shyt profound. Kendrick is fake deep. He'll talk about BLM, and other more "mainstream" issues that circulate within the consciousness of the black zeitgeist; but he wouldn't dare call out the clintons, talk about the bullshyt that is BLM, or just call shyt for what it really is.
you can't be pseudo-intelligent. either you're smart or you're not

And Kendrick doesn't rap about "BLM" j That sounds like a some genetic Fox NEws way of generalizing Kendrick TBH.

He talked about the black experience as a whole, as it pertains to him, his homies, his environment and his music in TPAB.


IF you thought the point was to confuse or outsmart you, that's because somewhere along the way you got lost and don't want to admit it.
 
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you can't be pseudo-intelligent. either you're smart or you're not

And Kendrick doesn't rap about "BLM" j That sounds like a some genetic Fox NEws way of generalizing Kendrick TBH.

He talked about the black experience as a whole, as it pertains to him, his homies, his environment and his music in TPAB.


IF you thought the point was to confuse or outsmart you, that's because somewhere along the way you got lost and don't want to admit it.

Yes one can be Pseudo intelligent. Such as one believing their intelligent, or awake when their really not. Kendrick's raps about the black experience are nothing considerably PROFOUND, and it's hilarious that people think he's rapping about a black experience, and that his raps are intricate when it's all incredibly shallow. Whether he blatantly mentions BLM or not, he's towing the media bandwagon line of the liberal left-"We gon be alright!"
 

dora_da_destroyer

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That tells me everything I need to know about your input in this discussion...
i'm pretty sure 99 of 100 people WOULD NOT label beyonce as pseudo intellect, that's always been one of the knocks against her - how "dumb" she comes across. now if you wanna call out her pandering to BLM/black pride in formation, that's cool, but her music is the epitome of dumbed down
 

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I always see this thrown out about dudes like kendrick, lupe, joey badass, sometime cole – basically anyone coined as creating songs "with meaning" or "depth" yet i never see anyone explain what makes them fake deep nor does anyone offer examples of who/what is "real deep" :jbhmm:

Can someone post some examples of "fake deep" verses vs. "real deep" verses for me? Can I get the coli official list of "fake deep" artists and "real deep" artists? :jbhmm:

Fake deep is:
1. When people purposely try to be deep. Like when it feels forced. A try hard. Or they are saying some basic stuff trying to sound deep.
2. When people try to say things to sound "deep", but don't really know what they're talking about.
3. When someone says some "deep" stuff but behaves in a way that is considered the opposite of deep.

Jermaine has beeen falling into the first category to me for a little while now. Kendrick is usually in category #3 people put cole there too sometimes, that's usually when they're talking about them being misogynist. I don't listen to the rest of them so I wouldn't know, but they probably fall into one of the 3 categories, just like most pple who post "deep" stuff on social media.
 
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swerve

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:laugh: at the jigga warriors on first page trying to make Nas come off as fake deep when jay is the epitome of fake


It would be cool to see some examples of when Kendrick is fake deep because I cant see it :ehh:
 
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