Classics Discussion: Raekwon & Ghostface Killah

[Billy Ocean]

don't get me wrong there are similarities but I don't think it's a successor album or anything

I think as others have pointed out, that stems more from the synergy of Rae and Ghost more than anything

hell in some ways, Liquid Swords has more similarities with OB4CL than Ironman does tbh

lemme check that link you posted

I agree, there are some similarities but those similarities stem from the fact that Ghost and Raekwon are lyrical companions. Naturally one album featuring both heavy will have some similarities to another album featuring both heavy. That's why the initial comparisons were made. But if Rae isn't on Ironman there really isn't any link to Cuban Linx. The ambiance differs.

 

[FrankieLymon757]

“I’m just throwing one in the air. ‘Daytona’ was mean, but I might go with the ‘All That I Got Is You’ joint, just because of the story based on it. And I loved the Michael Jackson sample that was there. That’s why I rhymed on it. And we felt Mary belonged on that. And it worked. So I would say that. But you had ‘Wildflower.’ You had ‘260.’ You had the shyt that Rae was on for dolo. That shyt was beastie.
“I was going into a slump during Ironman. I found out I was a diabetic around that time, and I was just stressed out. My mind wasn’t all the way there. Certain joints I couldn’t really catch. Like the one I had Masta Killa and Deck and RZA and them on, ‘Assassination Day.’ I couldn’t catch it. I let it live, but like, ‘fukk it, I’ll back out of that one,’ and kept it moving.
“To me, Ironman is dark. ‘After The Smoke Is Clear,’ and the last couple songs at the end. Even the Mary joint. It’s down. Even ‘Assassination Day.’ They’re dark. And I was mad as a motherfukker, but I couldn’t do nothing about it after it was wrapped up. They were like, ‘Yo put it out there.’ Then Nas came with I Am... after that, and he had nice, colorful joints. But it was what it was.”

Ghostface Killah Names His Favorite Songs From His Essential Albums - Ironman

 

[SirBiatch]

ok so the Vibe one is where Ghost says they're continuing from where OB4CL kicked off and the other thing I saw was Camay was a more mature version of Ice Cream, which I can see.

let's see what else there is

spooky

 

[Lord Mecca]

You dummies can't even look beneath the surface. Can't do the math yourselves so you rely on authority figures and sheep to explicitly tell you things.

coming from the guy who used a Vibe article and internet forums to defend his point

 

[SirBiatch]

coming from the guy who used a Vibe article and internet forums to defend his point

and you used what exactly?

 

[Lord Mecca]

and you used what exactly?

does that not make you the sheep, as you would put it??

 

[Inspect Her Deck]

@SirBiatch

this is how I feel about it all

Only Built 4 Cuban Linx is the musical manifestation of a crime film. It literally plays out from beginning to end as such. There's more of a focused narrative and narrower themes. The only time it loses focus are on two occasions: Ice Cream (single) and Wisdom Body (Ghost solo). You felt that those were added on to fulfil album requirements or what have you, and they're amazing tracks but they could equally be removed with little consequence. But the focus at all times of this album is the NARRATIVE.

Conversely, Ironman's chief focus is on GHOSTFACE. I feel the reason he's being accompanied by Rae and Cappa is off the success of 36 Chambers and OB4CL for Raekwon and OB4CL for Cappadonna. It's like the re-using of a successful formula, why change? That being said, Tony Starks is more of an accompanying character in Cuban Linx, here Raekwon is a supplementary vocalist. There's a difference. It just means he'll feature on more songs, not play a specific role. Ironman delves more into what Ghost's life is about, and sure enough SOME of it continues from the drug dealing leftovers of Cuban Linx, but here there's a greater focus on 5%er teachings and promotion of black excellence on songs like Poisonous Darts and Black Jesus. There's a greater consciousness of women in some of the aforementioned songs in this thread, and most of all, each song reflects on Ghost PERSONALLY rather than how it plays into a narrative, which is pretty non-existent on the album.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong or anything, but I think you bought into the illusion of Ironman being a poor man's OB4CL based on some similarities in subject matter and who's featuring on the album. But in the end, the aesthetic is different, the atmosphere is different psychologically and certainly sonically (as I said before).

You know what the irony is? Perhaps it was MEANT to play out as a follow-up to Cuban Linx, after all Ghost has ironed out (pun intended) many of the issues he had with this album, which is why he is much more proud of Supreme Clientele as his OWN album. The lack of focus on Ironman, intentional or not, I feel deserves to place it on a different plateau than Cuban Linx, because the vibe is ultimately different.

 

[SirBiatch]

does that not make you the sheep, as you would put it??

Didn't answer the question I asked

And no, stupid. It doesn't. I formed an opinion on my own because shyt was fairly obvious years ago when I heard Ironman.

But I'm a hip hop fan unlike you pseudo-heads and I'm always curious to know what people, especially intelligent people, think. I might agree, I might disagree.

Fast forward to 2016. This thread made me check for receipts. Turns out Ghostface himself alluded to it being Cuban Linx 2. Then I checked to see if others agreed/disagreed with me (and more importantly 'why'). I looked at the 'why', found that it corresponded with my 'why', and provided receipts both ways.

Whereas you just spouted some shyt you probably heard somewhere and provided no analysis/receipts to demonstrate that you've actually thought about this. And that wouldn't have been a problem if you hadn't attempted to dismiss someone who actually has Makes you look petty and retarded.

It was nice having this dance with you and I'm sure you'll be stalking my posts another time. Peace.

 

[Billy Ocean]

@SirBiatch

this is how I feel about it all

Only Built 4 Cuban Linx is the musical manifestation of a crime film. It literally plays out from beginning to end as such. There's more of a focused narrative and narrower themes. The only time it loses focus are on two occasions: Ice Cream (single) and Wisdom Body (Ghost solo). You felt that those were added on to fulfil album requirements or what have you, and they're amazing tracks but they could equally be removed with little consequence. But the focus at all times of this album is the NARRATIVE.

Conversely, Ironman's chief focus is on GHOSTFACE. I feel the reason he's being accompanied by Rae and Cappa is off the success of 36 Chambers and OB4CL for Raekwon and OB4CL for Cappadonna. It's like the re-using of a successful formula, why change? That being said, Tony Starks is more of an accompanying character in Cuban Linx, here Raekwon is a supplementary vocalist. There's a difference. It just means he'll feature on more songs, not play a specific role. Ironman delves more into what Ghost's life is about, and sure enough SOME of it continues from the drug dealing leftovers of Cuban Linx, but here there's a greater focus on 5%er teachings and promotion of black excellence on songs like Poisonous Darts and Black Jesus. There's a greater consciousness of women in some of the aforementioned songs in this thread, and most of all, each song reflects on Ghost PERSONALLY rather than how it plays into a narrative, which is pretty non-existent on the album.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong or anything, but I think you bought into the illusion of Ironman being a poor man's OB4CL based on some similarities in subject matter and who's featuring on the album. But in the end, the aesthetic is different, the atmosphere is different psychologically and certainly sonically (as I said before).

You know what the irony is? Perhaps it was MEANT to play out as a follow-up to Cuban Linx, after all Ghost has ironed out (pun intended) many of the issues he had with this album, which is why he is much more proud of Supreme Clientele as his OWN album. The lack of focus on Ironman, intentional or not, I feel deserves to place it on a different plateau than Cuban Linx, because the vibe is ultimately different.

Excellent post.

 

[Lord Mecca]

Didn't answer the question I asked

And no, stupid. It doesn't. I formed an opinion on my own because shyt was fairly obvious years ago when I heard Ironman.

But I'm a hip hop fan unlike you pseudo-heads and I'm always curious to know what people, especially intelligent people, think. I might agree, I might disagree.

Fast forward to 2016. This thread made me check for receipts. Turns out Ghostface himself alluded to it being Cuban Linx 2. Then I checked to see if others agreed/disagreed with me (and more importantly 'why'). I looked at the 'why', found that it corresponded with my 'why', and provided receipts both ways.

Whereas you just spouted some shyt you probably heard somewhere and provided no analysis/receipts to demonstrate that you've actually thought about this. And that wouldn't have been a problem if you hadn't attempted to dismiss someone who actually has Makes you look petty and retarded.

It was nice having this dance with you and I'm sure you'll be stalking my posts another time. Peace.

ok breh

 

[SirBiatch]

ok breh

going mute I see

I knew it was only a matter of time

 

[Lord Mecca]

going mute I see

I knew it was only a matter of time

nah not at all... you got all of your answers. You tried to dismiss my basketball analogy because "they don't rap in cyphers".

One dimensional ass nikka... I shouldn't have to explain to you in bone-chilling detail what others seem to have no problem understanding. So continue your paradoxical journey through Coli breh... I'm here.

 

[JayBaldacci]

wu syndicate was a poor mans linx... had some dope shyt though.

 

[mobbinfms]

But I'm a hip hop fan unlike you pseudo-heads

@Lord Mecca is a pseudo-head now?

 

[mobbinfms]

Ghostface himself says Ironman continues where Cuban Linx left off

Actually, if you read the article, there is no quote from Ghost saying this...so its not clear if he did say it directly, or it was the writer's interpretation of what he was saying.