Counterprogramming in Wrestling (does it help or is it destructive)

MenacingMonk

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I'm not putting blame on anyone. It's a fact ROH lost the act (Cody included in the Elite pack) that was drawing historic numbers for them and was left in a market were all the real top indy talent was being taken away -already by NXT or was about to leave for more money in AEW-, it's a natural thing that occurs in the business :manny:
Oh yeah, but to act like AEW’s creation is the only reason OG ROH folded is some dumbass talk. :heh:

Plenty of factors played a role. It may not be what it once was, but those 3 letters are still up and running. :ld:
 

FunkDoc1112

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At this point we gotta stop arguing with the same posters who already have their mind made up. They hate AEW but can’t stop talking about it.

Only reason I engaged was because I was quoted. I just pointed out an observation and some facts about the dumb shyt they posted and one of them took offense to being called out. :manny:
A lot of AEW discussion is unbearable because it's really just WWE nikkas fighting proxy wars with the IWC through AEW. Everything circles back around to "If WWE did this...!"
 

The Intergalactic Koala

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The whole ROH argument is like Enron where the promotion was ran on good intentions but not making any sort of money. Along with the suits being idiotic involving wrestling, and a booker that couldn't book himself out of a shootout with water guns.

Tony Khan just bought the logo and made It AEW Dark forrealzes.

Lets keep ít a bean, All In was the turning point for wrestling more ways than one.

It gave a building block to create AEW, but on the grounds that ROH will end up being the sacrifice. If the Bucks and em didn't take that offer, the promotion would had absorbed to the WWE umbrella or closed doors for good.

Bottom line, ROH is just another victim to the dope game called the wrestling business. Sad but real. Hell, TNA and Evolve is basically Shotgun Saturday night and Velocity at this point.

Once the IWC will realize that they are eventually going to get that monopoly that they cried about with the WWE involving AEW in the mix, will be the day, TSC comes to terms where you all got played...including the marsupial.

By 2030 it's just going to two promotions and the rest is food for the feeding direction. So enjoy 😃
 

Cattle Mutilation

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Oh yeah, but to act like AEW’s creation is the only reason OG ROH folded is some dumbass talk. :heh:

Plenty of factors played a role. It may not be what it once was, but those 3 letters are still up and running. :ld:
There’s a whole lot of reasons and not a single one can be pointed out to as “yeah that’s THE reason why ROH died.” Below is the most significant reasons I can think of but by no means an all inclusive list of reasons why it died.

Sinclair Broadcasting really didn’t give a shyt about the product and didn’t want to invwst the money into it that was needed to be viable long term.

Most ROH bookers became dumbasses in short order, if not immediately.

They never did the ROH/NJPW dual contracts that were said to be happening in the future, which is something that likely could have staved off some of the talent losses to NXT. Also potentially would have made The Elite not want to take on the risk of starting up AEW. In some ways it’s easier to justify taking a risk when the stakes are higher and you have less to lose.

NXT snatched up a shyt ton of top ROH talent and was booking indie style matches that would appeal to fans of ROH style wrestling - which by the way included me because peak NXT Black and Gold was some good shyt even though I never watched it consistently because of personal reasons 100% unrelated to my hate for WWE.

Supporting the All In venture without making it an ROH shows. They basically helped finance, staff, and produce the blueprint for AEW without getting the full financial benefit of All In. Oh, and this is the type of show they could have potentially axed based on contract language with the Elite and others if they had done those ROH/NJPW dual contracts.

AEW took what was the critically failing body of ROH and took even more talent and went even further than NXT did in creating a product that would appeal to people who like ROH. And they didn’t have the stench of WWE attached to it, which made it more palatable to people who were in the fukk the Fed train at the time.

Then the pandemic came along and that was the final nail in the coffin.
 

Art Barr

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What he did to ROH was way worse. First the elite and like 80% of the All In card leaves roh and forms aew. Then he promoted that aew talent can work with other companies and continue to work with roh, and they can work on his show too....then he starts signing all of them from ROH, and guts their roster....then he buys ROH for scraps.

It is also noteworthy that the essential nail in the coffin for ROH was the msg g1 supercard show, which was announced BEFORE all in occured, and had a trash roster from ROH because they were gutted, and aew then used that opportunity to work with NJPW more, and subsequently signed their best talent too.


It's absolutely no less predatory than anything Vince did to AWA or Houston Wrestling


Stop.

Cody to Taven and his buddies ruined roh beyond repair.
After wwe raided the roh main player in ach and played racist games.

After 2009 and ruined roh tv show through raids. Then wwe sicked cornette on them. Who ruined roh. that roh had to regroup in the first place.

Khan saved roh.
What is it with you and this rogue retelling.
of anything the bucks did or do.

Face it.
The bucks are better.
than your coveted power teams of year's pastwe been through the match rants and dialogue.

Art Barr
 

MenacingMonk

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There’s a whole lot of reasons and not a single one can be pointed out to as “yeah that’s THE reason why ROH died.” Below is the most significant reasons I can think of but by no means an all inclusive list of reasons why it died.

Sinclair Broadcasting really didn’t give a shyt about the product and didn’t want to invwst the money into it that was needed to be viable long term.

Most ROH bookers became dumbasses in short order, if not immediately.

They never did the ROH/NJPW dual contracts that were said to be happening in the future, which is something that likely could have staved off some of the talent losses to NXT. Also potentially would have made The Elite not want to take on the risk of starting up AEW. In some ways it’s easier to justify taking a risk when the stakes are higher and you have less to lose.

NXT snatched up a shyt ton of top ROH talent and was booking indie style matches that would appeal to fans of ROH style wrestling - which by the way included me because peak NXT Black and Gold was some good shyt even though I never watched it consistently because of personal reasons 100% unrelated to my hate for WWE.

Supporting the All In venture without making it an ROH shows. They basically helped finance, staff, and produce the blueprint for AEW without getting the full financial benefit of All In. Oh, and this is the type of show they could have potentially axed based on contract language with the Elite and others if they had done those ROH/NJPW dual contracts.

AEW took what was the critically failing body of ROH and took even more talent and went even further than NXT did in creating a product that would appeal to people who like ROH. And they didn’t have the stench of WWE attached to it, which made it more palatable to people who were in the fukk the Fed train at the time.

Then the pandemic came along and that was the final nail in the coffin.
To add on, there wasn’t even any ROH talent “stolen” early on. It wasn’t until ROH called it quits that most contracted talent made the jump.

Dudes weren’t even keeping track or watching ROH and wanna act like they know what happened. “But but AEW killed them!” Is the only thing the wanna say.
 

Silkk

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Stop.

Cody to Taven and his buddies ruined roh beyond repair.
After wwe raided the roh main player in ach and played racist games.


After 2009 and ruined roh tv show through raids. Then wwe sicked cornette on them. Who ruined roh. that roh had to regroup in the first place.

Khan saved roh.
What is it with you and this rogue retelling.
of anything the bucks did or do.

Face it.
The bucks are better.
than your coveted power teams of year's pastwe been through the match rants and dialogue.

Art Barr
How can you say that when Khan is the one that took Cody and them?

And I loved ACH in ROH but he was never a top guy there. Should have been though.
 

MenacingMonk

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How can you say that when Khan is the one that took Cody and them?

And I loved ACH in ROH but he was never a top guy there. Should have been though.
“Khan took the Elite” is more retard talk. :dead:

Imagine skipping out on opportunity to build something bigger for small fish. If they didn’t leave you wouldn’t have another company to bytch and moan about. :heh:
 

Jmare007

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“Khan took the Elite” is more retard talk. :dead:

Imagine skipping out on opportunity to build something bigger for small fish. If they didn’t leave you wouldn’t have another company to bytch and moan about. :heh:
It's not even that he "took" them. The Elite decided to bet on themselves and start a new promotion. That's why I think it's relevant to make the distinction that it was ROH's top drawing acts that went "we can do bigger and better" and starter their own shyt. Sure, they got the money guy, but it's wrestling 101, you don't get a big national promotion without the drawing acts to make it sustainable at the start, and you need those wrestlers to make the jump.

It's not necessarily the norm in the U.S but it's pretty common in Japan.
 

stro

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If I'm not mistaken, all the Elite were primarily NJ contracted talent over ROH that whole time. Def the Bucks and Kenny, not sure about Cody. NJ pretty much been unable to keep their top talent for nearly a decade straight. From AJ/Nak/Good Bros in 2016 to The Elite in 2019 to Jay White/Okada/Naito.
 

MenacingMonk

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It's not even that he "took" them. The Elite decided to bet on themselves and start a new promotion. That's why I think it's relevant to make the distinction that it was ROH's top drawing acts that went "we can do bigger and better" and starter their own shyt. Sure, they got the money guy, but it's wrestling 101, you don't get a big national promotion without the drawing acts to make it sustainable at the start, and you need those wrestlers to make the jump.

It's not necessarily the norm in the U.S but it's pretty common in Japan.
These dudes are either dumb or just saying shyt to start arguments.
 

Art Barr

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How can you say that when Khan is the one that took Cody and them?

And I loved ACH in ROH but he was never a top guy there. Should have been though.


Ach was the entire drawing cog to roh tv at one ppint. Regardless of card position. Same as ciampa was the most over man in roh history.

As far as cody.
Cody befriended kahn. It does not mean that kahn saw cody as being cold as hell as a worker. Evident from the trash roh run Cody had. Which included a cue pointer. to cody being a level below. From a poor daniels series. Not to mention the poorest daniels series. Of anyone daniels was against as a litmus test. As daniels is generally the litmus test to indie greatness and cody fsiled at that. As well as cycled out the roh title for just A ring gimmick.
that was horrible as well. Like indie woat horrible in roh. Cody in bullet club was woat too. That the tongans had to oust the elite.
Taven and his racist vibe lot. Truly sent roh to the gulag. Where tony had to save roh.


Art Barr
 

Art Barr

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These dudes are either dumb or just saying shyt to start arguments.


People who never ranted matches.
Are the ones. Not knowing no one can trust their commentary. As they have not illustrsted. They are dope in The first reason.
we are here for. Which is to provide critique.
to save people time amd money.

Plus they lack. From this and fail to read otbers work. As they have no respect. From rhe simple fact they never contributed.
to the first reason.
a poster is here for.


Art Barr
 
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