Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
That caps lock alone does it
Doc Rivers says "LEBRON JAMES IS TOP 5 ALL TIME WITHOUT A DOUBT"
- Thread starter SuaveHooper88
- Start date
So you post a manipulated graphic, I counter with the real stats, and you respond with another manipulated graphic which therefore "proves" that graphics can be manipulated and therefore the real stats don't count.
Posting a random stat from three random years in the middle of a player's career is useless. It doesn't make any argument at all. Comparing that to a career statistic is meaningless.
I wish I could believe you were just trolling and at least realize how bad your arguments are.
And yes, Carmelo IS better at regular season game-winning shots than Lebron? So? That's Carmelo's strength - he has fantastic shot-making ability in iso situations without Kobe's "I need the glory!" poor late-game decision-making to counteract it.
Of course, since Lebron beats him easily in driving, passing, defense, running the offense, and playoff dominance (including game-winning shots in the playoffs), no one would think that Carmelo's one superior strength makes him a superior player.
No one has ever said that Lebron is the best game-winning shot taker in history. Just that he's more than competent at it, and over his career has had more success on game-winning shots than Kobe has.
Here's one of the clearest comparisons, both regular season and playoffs. Remember, Kobe has a lot more games behind him:
http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/
2016 Warriors (73 wins), 2015 Hawks (60 wins), 2013 Spurs (58 wins), 2012 Thunder (58 wins pro-rated), 2011 Bulls (62 wins).
Name the best 5 teams that Kobe has beaten since he took leadership of the team.
No, beating a 53-win Rocket team without Yao and McGrady, or teams like the Deron Williams-led Jazz or the aging 2010 Suns, does NOT make you an all-time great. Kobe has a lot of mediocre 50-win teams on his resume, almost none of whom had any chance at the Championship. If the team you're beating isn't even a title contender, then what does beating them prove?
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So you post a manipulated graphic, I counter with the real stats, and you respond with another manipulated graphic which therefore "proves" that graphics can be manipulated and therefore the real stats don't count.
Posting a random-ass stat from three random years in the middle of a player's career is idiocy. It doesn't make any argument at all. Comparing that to a career statistic is meaningless.
I wish I could believe you were just trolling and at least realize how dumb your arguments are.
And yes, Carmelo IS better at regular season game-winning shots than Lebron? So? That's Carmelo's strength - he has fantastic shot-making ability in iso situations without Kobe's dumbass "I need the glory!" poor late-game decision-making to counteract it.
Of course, since Lebron beats him easily in driving, passing, defense, running the offense, and playoff dominance (including game-winning shots in the playoffs), no one would think that Carmelo's one superior strength makes him a superior player.
No one has ever said that Lebron is the best game-winning shot taker in history. Just that he's more than competent at it, and over his career has had more success on game-winning shots than Kobe has.
Here's one of the clearest comparisons, both regular season and playoffs. Remember, Kobe has a lot more games behind him:
http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/
2016 Warriors (73 wins), 2015 Hawks (60 wins), 2013 Spurs (58 wins), 2012 Thunder (58 wins pro-rated), 2011 Bulls (62 wins).
Name the best 5 teams that Kobe has beaten since he took leadership of the team.
No, beating a 53-win Rocket team without Yao and McGrady, or teams like the Deron Williams-led Jazz or the aging 2010 Suns, does NOT make you an all-time great. Kobe has a lot of mediocre 50-win teams on his resume, almost none of whom had any chance at the Championship. If the team you're beating isn't even a title contender, then what does beating them prove?
NO THNX ROBO, I THINK ILL STICK TO MY GRAPHICS THAT SHOW KOBE IS A BETTER BIG SHOT MAKER THAN LEBRON.
SPARE US THE NUMERICAL DATA.. FOR THOSE OF US WHO HAVE SOULS, WE SEEN THEM BOTH PERFORM IN THE CLUTCH N WE KNOW WHO SHOWS KILLER INSTINCT AND TAKES OVER AND WHO RELIES ON HIS ALPHA SUPERSTARS TO....
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Jack Skellington
yes indeed family
this is not debatable, of course he is.
NO THNX ROBO, I THINK ILL STICK TO MY GRAPHICS THAT SHOW KOBE IS A BETTER BIG SHOT MAKER THAN LEBRON.
I'm mad that your only retort to the career numbers was to post, "But look, Lebron had one 3-year bad stretch in a 14-year career, so even if his career numbers are clearly better than Kobe's, I win!"
I mean, including more context, like what Kobe did immediately after that graphic was posted, wouldn't hurt your case, would it?
ESPN Stats & Info
✔@ESPNStatsInfo
Kobe Bryant has now missed 13 straight game-tying/go-ahead FG in final 5 seconds of 4th quarter/OT.
His last make was March 2012.
11:36 AM - 3 Jan 2015
The truth about Kobe Bryant in crunch time
A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000
I'm mad that your only retort to the career numbers was to post, "But look, Lebron had one 3-year bad stretch in a 14-year career, so even if his career numbers are clearly better than Kobe's, I win!"
I mean, including more context, like what Kobe did immediately after that graphic was posted, wouldn't hurt your case, would it?
The truth about Kobe Bryant in crunch time
A Statistical Analysis Of Clutch NBA Shooters Since 2000
AND THIS IS WHY ONLY GEEKS AND MACHINES USE ANALYTICAL DATA AS A PRIMARY WAY TO CRITIQUE A PLAYER
HOW MANY GAME WINNERS DOES LEBRON HAVE IN HIS CAREER? WILLIN TO BET ITS NOT EVEN HALF AS MANY AS KOBE.
I love how "counting up all the game-winners and dividing them by the misses" is "analytical data" to Sccit.
You already did the same thing...except your dumb ass had to post a random-ass three-year graphic of it instead of posting the WHOLE career.
What are you going by, last 24 seconds?
In that case, counting regular season and playoffs both, game-tying and game-winning both, then Kobe has 55 in 20 years and Lebron has 37 in 13 years.
Kobe averaged 2.75 game winners/year over his career and Lebron has averaged 2.84 game winners/year. They practically are on the exact SAME pace.
And, since Lebron knows how to pass to open teammates, he only has 82 total misses (6.3/year) on game-winners, compared to 148 misses (7.4/year) for Kobe.
Of course, Lebron has already passed Kobe on playoff game-winners, 8 to 7, even though he has 7 fewer years and 8 fewer attempts in the playoffs.
But I know that "counting" and "division" are difficult "analytics" for you, so what I just wrote might be too hard for you to undestand.
WRONG
LEBRON HAS 16 GAME WINNERS
KOBE HAS 36
AND HERES EVERY GAME TYING/WINNING SHOT ATTEMPT LECHOKE HAS EVER PUT UP IN THE FINALS
BUT KEEP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS TO FIT YOUR NARRATIVE
Lord_Chief_Rocka
Superstar
This nikka has really deluded himself into believing Bron has had a harder path than Kobe
So you post a manipulated graphic, I counter with the real stats, and you respond with another manipulated graphic which therefore "proves" that graphics can be manipulated and therefore the real stats don't count.
Posting a random-ass stat from three random years in the middle of a player's career is idiocy. It doesn't make any argument at all. Comparing that to a career statistic is meaningless.
I wish I could believe you were just trolling and at least realize how dumb your arguments are.
And yes, Carmelo IS better at regular season game-winning shots than Lebron? So? That's Carmelo's strength - he has fantastic shot-making ability in iso situations without Kobe's dumbass "I need the glory!" poor late-game decision-making to counteract it.
Of course, since Lebron beats him easily in driving, passing, defense, running the offense, and playoff dominance (including game-winning shots in the playoffs), no one would think that Carmelo's one superior strength makes him a superior player.
No one has ever said that Lebron is the best game-winning shot taker in history. Just that he's more than competent at it, and over his career has had more success on game-winning shots than Kobe has.
Here's one of the clearest comparisons, both regular season and playoffs. Remember, Kobe has a lot more games behind him:
http://swishnba.com/tag/the-truth-about-kobe-in-the-clutch/
2016 Warriors (73 wins), 2015 Hawks (60 wins), 2013 Spurs (58 wins), 2012 Thunder (58 wins pro-rated), 2011 Bulls (62 wins).
Name the best 5 teams that Kobe has beaten since he took leadership of the team.
No, beating a 53-win Rocket team without Yao and McGrady, or teams like the Deron Williams-led Jazz or the aging 2010 Suns, does NOT make you an all-time great. Kobe has a lot of mediocre 50-win teams on his resume, almost none of whom had any chance at the Championship. If the team you're beating isn't even a title contender, then what does beating them prove?
Hawks were title contenders
A team with no superstars and Carroll getting injured
All those teams in the west you keep shytting on had ATLEAST one player that would've been the best player on the Hawks
The bulls had one guy that could create his own shot and he was 6 ft 1
That's a recipe for champions right
Lord_Chief_Rocka
Superstar
WRONG
LEBRON HAS 16 GAME WINNERS
KOBE HAS 36
AND HERES EVERY GAME TYING/WINNING SHOT ATTEMPT LECHOKE HAS EVER PUT UP IN THE FINALS
BUT KEEP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS TO FIT YOUR NARRATIVE
These nikkas are delusional man
One of the main reasons I hate LeBron is that he let these geeks get in the basketball. The players love Kobe more though
Lord_Chief_Rocka
Superstar
Super Stars are what counts in the playoffs
Anyone that knows anything about basketball knows this
When Bron was in Miami the east had 3
He played with one and Melo had no help really
In Cleveland the East now has 4
Bron plays with one.
Melo and PG have no help
Anyone that knows anything about basketball knows this
When Bron was in Miami the east had 3
He played with one and Melo had no help really
In Cleveland the East now has 4
Bron plays with one.
Melo and PG have no help
WRONG
LEBRON HAS 16 GAME WINNERS
KOBE HAS 36
BUT KEEP MOVING THE GOALPOSTS TO FIT YOUR NARRATIVE
That's bullshyt - Lebron already had 17 such shots by 2009.
And here are all 40 such shots he has had so far, listed, in order, so you can't deny them.
So you're getting your information from youtube?
Way to show that you don't have the slightest clue what "moving the goalposts" means.
Guess what - when I keep repeating the same claim over and over
while you keep changing your claim
then I'm not the one "moving the goalposts".
Lebron has made 8 shots to take the lead or tie in the final 24 seconds in the PLAYOFFS ALONE
Kobe only has 7 such shots. And only 1 of Kobe's was a buzzer-beater, while 3 of Lebron's were, if that matters to you.
The real answer is that Kobe has made 55 such shots, but only 7 in the playoffs.
Lebron has made 40 such shots in his shorter career, a good 8 of them which were in the playoffs.
You seem to be trying to not count game-tying shots, and not counting potential game-winning shots (like taking the lead with 1 second left only to have someone else score at the buzzer), even though making either one of those shots is just as clutch as a game-winning shot, and what someone else did after you has nothing to do with anything. Even if you excuse you for both of those things, I doubt your numbers are right...which is what you get for basing your stats on youtube videos.
Now, when are you going to tell me how many misses Kobe has? Or does that not matter in Kobestan?
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