French 2017 Presidential Election - (MACRON WINS)

FAH1223

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work less, tax more, and give more handouts

:gucci:



how does that work?

Unemployment is a big deal for the youth

a UBI would be an interesting experiment, it could probably help in their search for employment... some places in Scotland and Canada have done trial runs on the micro level

From what I've read, the evaluation of these programs is that it gives people more sense of security and flexible... vast majority ain't using it and sitting on their asses.
 

#StarkSet

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Unemployment is a big deal for the youth

a UBI would be an interesting experiment, it could probably help in their search for employment... some places in Scotland and Canada have done trial runs on the micro level

From what I've read, the evaluation of these programs is that it gives people more sense of security and flexible... vast majority ain't using it and sitting on their asses.
:picard:


their population isnt exactly small
 

thatrapsfan

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I still fail to see what people like about Macron. My guess is that it's a lot of French people from the left and center who want a new wave, and that are seduced by Macron showing a lo of "non-french" things : if I remember correctly his first big political moment was in London, and choosing to speak in English in a meeting in Berlin (when translation was offered to him). It's quite significant because, and this is something many non-French people may not know, just as much as there is some form of (sometimes misplaced) "French pride", just as much is there a french intellectual form of snobism to appear "better than French". Not to be mistaken with a true form of diversity/universalism/whatever, it's a form of "openess" to a certain outside world that really is a statement to other french people : I'm above you. It's very peculiar and I realize hard to explain, and it appeals to that category of french people who see themselves that way. Renzi also somewhat had it Italy. His stance of being "anti-system" also pleases (even though he worked at Goldmann Sachs), but he looks like the first of the class so that appeals to the "bobo" (more-less hipsters) who say they want change but not too much change. Basically, he's revolution-lite, young and "anti-system" enough to appeal to some people on the Left, economically liberal and banking-world enough to appeal some on the RIght.

Really not sure he can make big waves outside of the big cities and outside a very specific category of person. I could be very wrong though.

Fillon took a serious hit. There was yet another affair that came out today, and even though he will not be under investigation it damages his position, since like all the other "holier-than-thou" people from the right he was all about "exemplarity", "cuuting costs" and "getting rid of leechers" lol. People from the traditionnal right will obviously still vote for him because they don't care as long as they can vote against the PS, but he might lose the undecided.

Really glad Hamon pulled it off today. He actually has a program with some ideas, as opposed to "programs" that were basically about managing and against or in reaction to something (as opposed to being for something). It means, I think, that's there's a real chance that a lot of people fed up with the PS could vote for Hamon, because he distanced him quite early from Hollande and Vallst. Ironically he's the most "anti-system" out of the BIg 3 (Le Pen, Fillon, Hamon,) candidates, which might win some votes from the undecided vote. There's a reason the FN was hoping for Valls to win the primary, they knew (and were right) he stood no chance against either Fillon or Le Pen, since he's a "socialist" copy of both.

Things finally got interesting with Hamon winning the primary imo.
If the scandal knocks Fillon out, things may get interesting.

If this proposal works, it would also give him another bump in the polls:

Hamon propose une « majorité gouvernementale » à Mélenchon et Jadot
 

mbewane

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The universal income thing will be very gradual, he already said it can't be totally done one mandate. It's part of the political discussion in various euro countries now, they are experimenting it in cities in the Netherlands and Sweden I think (or is it Finland?). Various economists have already said it's totally feasible.

Thing is that a lot of people already receive some kind of help from the state, this would end up simplyifing things (which should make the "less papework" crew happy, but it won't).

From what I read he's more about keeping the 35 hours of work, but with the possibility for employees to negotiate individually with their employer to work less (and obviously make less money).

The tax on robots comes from the reasoning that robots will lead to less people working while providing more profit to the owners. So you're not "taxing more", but compensating the fact that people now are ending up unemployed because of machinery. Somehow you have to pay for those people's unemployment benefits.

He's absolutely right on the secularism point.

If the scandal knocks Fillon out, things may get interesting.

If this proposal works, it would also give him another bump in the polls:

Hamon propose une « majorité gouvernementale » à Mélenchon et Jadot

I hope they both come to their senses (Mélenchon especially, Jadot will not get that many votes anyway) but I think that Hamon could pull it off even without him. I'm not totally sure people supporting Mélenchon would vote Hamon if he tells them to, a lot of them want to vote against the main parties (PS, LR, FN) no matter what.
 

Liu Kang

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Hopefully Fillon gets knocked out by the current scandal because there's no way I'd choose between far right Le Pen and traditionalist catholic conservative Fillon.

[...]I hope they both come to their senses (Mélenchon especially, Jadot will not get that many votes anyway) but I think that Hamon could pull it off even without him. I'm not totally sure people supporting Mélenchon would vote Hamon if he tells them to, a lot of them want to vote against the main parties (PS, LR, FN) no matter what.
IMO, he needs him. It wouldn't make sense to antagonize Melenchon whose following with the leftist youth has always been strong. If Melechon agrees to ride with Hamon to get (maybe) the PM position, it's a true winning ticket. Melenchon is usually around 10% and have faithful flock and PS and with the current PS situation, a 20% for Hamon would be a very good look. IMO, Hamon could get 25% with the help of the usually leftist Greens, Meluche and possibly some other far left votes. And 25% put him in the second round.

Like you, I can't feel Macron because even if he was in the Socialist government was never on the same wavelength than the others. Dude's a rightist in neocapitalist in disguise, that's all. He got for him that he's a breath of fresh air but I can't trust somebody who rode for himself as soon as he reached a position of power without being thankful to those who made him especially Hollande. I mean Hollande ain't trustworthy either the way he shat on everybody in his stupid tell all book but 40 something Macron already acts like a young Chirac. And that's not a good look.

Hamon is legit and has always pushed a left leaning PS while most of the others stuck the central-left route (Valls, Hollande, Lang, Strauss Khan, even Aubry to a degree). The only downside to his victory is that PS always had a strong center-left current that may be flocking to Macron because of Hamon's victory. On one hand, Hamon will suck plenty of the votes on the far-left but he will lose plenty on the center one. It's a tricky situation but we'll have to let the smoke clears and see that in a couple of months.
 

88m3

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Far-Right gonna far-right :francis:

She's gonna use this on some "Look how Europe and the system persecutes us".

Will she or her party be sanctioned because of it?


Re: Filon
I'm also shocked the French don't have strict nepotism laws?

We're up to 900k Euro for the wife and 80k for their sons now?

:wow:
 

mbewane

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Will she or her party be sanctioned because of it?


Re: Filon
I'm also shocked the French don't have strict nepotism laws?

We're up to 900k Euro for the wife and 80k for their sons now?

:wow:

Honestly I don't know what are the EU parliament rules in this case. Probably be banned/suspended from the EP, but they hardly there anyway and are anti-EU, so it somehow works for them. They can claim they are being exhorted by "Brussels" for "defending France", blah blah blah. shyt with the anti-EU sentiment it might even gain them some votes :francis:

For the Fillon case yeah quite incredibly France doesn't have nepotism laws :francis: just discovered that these days tbh. That's a part of "his defense", that it's not illegal in France to employ relatives. OK but they gotta to do an actual job :heh:
 

Liu Kang

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Missiles keep on landing on Fillon :ahh: May Juppé save the right :blessed:

white nationalist is on the rise don't be suprised if la pen wins this
She won't. She may win the 1st round but she's not winning the second one.

You guys' right is more closer to our far right than our actual right (above all when it comes to moral values). For example Hillary Clinton would be a moderate Les Républicains (yes, our right named themselves like that a couple of years ago smh) and Obama would have been a center-right politician possibly. A guy like Borloo. Or Strauss Khan :troll:

What I mean is that our political spectrum wider and switching from conventional right (gaullisme) to far right is a much bigger step here than it is in the US. It would take a massive switch in moral values for France to have more than 50% votes for Le Pen. Maybe in a couple of decades if the far right keeps on rising globally but not this year fortunately.
 

thatrapsfan

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Missiles keep on landing on Fillon :ahh: May Juppé save the right :blessed:


She won't. She may win the 1st round but she's not winning the second one.

You guys' right is more closer to our far right than our actual right (above all when it comes to moral values). For example Hillary Clinton would be a moderate Les Républicains (yes, our right named themselves like that a couple of years ago smh) and Obama would have been a center-right politician possibly. A guy like Borloo. Or Strauss Khan :troll:

What I mean is that our political spectrum wider and switching from conventional right (gaullisme) to far right is a much bigger step here than it is in the US. It would take a massive switch in moral values for France to have more than 50% votes for Le Pen. Maybe in a couple of decades if the far right keeps on rising globally but not this year fortunately.
Europeans and even Canadians like saying this stuff about the political spectrum, but I think its misleading.

Unlike the States you can be an xenophobe and racist and be socially liberal or progressive on the economy in the former. .In Quebec for example, the pro-independence party is left of center on most things related to the economy but is extremely xenophobic.
 

Liu Kang

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Europeans and even Canadians like saying this stuff about the political spectrum, but I think its misleading.

Unlike the States you can be an xenophobe and racist and be socially liberal or progressive on the economy in the former. .In Quebec for example, the pro-independence party is left of center on most things related to the economy but is extremely xenophobic.
I'm not saying we're better than the US or anything but simply that the step from right to far right is bigger here (in France specifically, I don't anywhere else) than it is in the US. Sarkozy even though conservative always kept his distance with the far right. In his second election, he tried to play a harder position, in order to steal votes from them and he got beaten easily by Hollande who was a by default PS candidate (with Strauss Khan fukking up).

Even though the taboo of voting far right died in 2002, there's still a strict border between LR and FN and it is badly seen from the right to mingle with the far right (which doesn't mean it is not happening). Le Pen did a great work (no lie) to dilute her hard image and appears to be very electable for many. Unlike her father who was caught numerous times with racism, bigotry, xenophobia, revisionism etc., the daughter never slipped once and is very careful. But still the name Le Pen is not appreciated by a majority of French which is what counts in the second round.

For your 'being xenophobe and be liberal', do you have an example in mind in France or is it a general statement ? Because I disagree with you on that one. Usually, being economically and culturally conservative go hand in hand with being morally and socially conservative over here too.
 
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