Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[Still Benefited]

@StillNotSoft

aight, went back and read through the thread like i said i would...it was interesting lol...thread has everything thrown in it to try to prove right/wrong....what's funny is people are using the same reasons to state why they're correct, no matter which side of the debate they fall on...ex: people that thought it was hot 'you had to be there'; people that didnt think it was hot 'you had to be there' lol....

the key thing that people are ignoring: future left it very open with the interpretation of the word 'hot'....he said 'RD wasnt hot when it dropped', but didnt explain how he meant that...since he didnt clarify, people are using their own criteria and bias to define hot, i.e. sales, impact, influence, quality of the music, was it getting play, was RD known when released, etc....ex: @bigbadbossup2012 is using sales; @spliz is using impact; @IllmaticDelta is using influence; @hex used other's opinions...since it wasnt clear what future meant by 'hot', it all boils down to opinion and each individual's def of the word in relation to this convo, so it's cool...

also, i can see the correlation about illmatic in regards to RD about whether it was 'hot' or not when it first dropped....it'll all depend on how you define 'hot....to me: they both were hot when they dropped...it's the reason i copped, bumped, talked about, etc. both when they initially came out....

My argument is bulletproof on all levels,no matter what Future meant as much as i think its obvious as much as cats wanna play naive and dumb now.
But Im also going based on the fact "nikkas wasnt checking for it" has always meant nikkas wasnt buying it or trying to hear from said artist like that....you honestly telling me sales dont tell part of the story behind who nikkas was actually checking for lutha?Doggystyle,was nikkas checking for illmatic like they were doggystyle?were they checking for Illmatic like theynwere checking for RTD?simple question.

You gotta admit what im saying holds more weight because Im taking all things into account....the nikkas you tagged pretty much said "who cares what nikkas in west bumblefukk think" another said "only the east and west mattered".....nikkas u taggin refuse to take sales into account.

Albums im comparing to like Doggystyle beat out Illmatic by selling 10 times the ammount of records,Snoop being far more anticipated as a emcee than Nas,Doggystle being loved nation wide by critics annd the streets alike in real time

RtD,also had sales,Biggie beat Nas for best lyricist as these nikkas talking that second coming shyt,they stole Nas award away and gave it to the nikka who did what he was supposed to do,cold blooded


I got it covered no matter what Future was talking about....Nas didnt make as big a impact as those two albums did.

Gotta admit we have a more complete argument,dont forget these nikkas was cool using some of this same criteria against Jigga and RD,soon as tables turn on Nas and a bunch of nikkas say they wasnt checking for it....all of a sudden its who cares about whatnthe nation thinks,all of a sudden its sales dont matter yall

 

[Still Benefited]

Nikkas was sampling and flipping Illmatic lines, copying his album cover, freestyling to Illmatic beats in the 90's literally two years after release.

Ya mans Pac was bumping the shyt outta this while on trial before MATW but aight .

dream hampton
@dreamhampton
"I remember forcing Pac to listen to Illmatic. I was out here in L.A. going to court with him & Columbia sent by advance out here."

Yall wanna leave out the fact Pac wasnt checking for that shyt either when it dropped....or do yall wanna keep pretending Pac was plannning on running out to the record store to cop it first day out

Never heard a nikka having to be forced to listen to Doggystyle or Creepin On Ah Come Up though....if only Pac was alive to tell us if he bought RD first day it came out

 

[Still Benefited]

G Rap was the bigger influence on Nas than Rakim. Ra was an influence on the whole game. But not Nas more than any other fan of the God MC.

I already said this,and have always said this.

But your boy downplayed Rakims influence by saying "the flow not at all the same".....when a minute pryor he wanted to give Nas credit for influencing and changing Meths style when the flow is not at all the same

 

[ISO]

dream hampton
@dreamhampton
"I remember forcing Pac to listen to Illmatic. I was out here in L.A. going to court with him & Columbia sent by advance out here."

Yall wanna leave out the fact Pac wasnt checking for that shyt either when it dropped....or do yall wanna keep pretending Pac was plannning on running out to the record store to cop it first day out

Never heard a nikka having to be forced to listen to Doggystyle or Creepin On Ah Come Up though....if only Pac was alive to tell us if he bought RD first day it came out

Bailiff out here yelling at Pac to turn that shyt down

 

[Still Benefited]

Bailiff out here yelling at Pac to turn that shyt down

He wouldve shot the baliff if he had been listening to his own shyt.

Now thats influence

 

[spliz]

I already said this,and have always said this.

But your boy downplayed Rakims influence by saying "the flow not at all the same".....when a minute pryor he wanted to give Nas credit for influencing and changing Meths style when the flow is not at all the same

Difference is by the time Nas came out Ra's stamp and influence already manifested and took over the game for about 6-7 years already. Meth was already out and then Nas drops in the midst of it and nikkas started switchin they shyt up. Not necessarily to HIS particular style n shyt. But switchin it up just to keep up. Ask Fat Joe or any other actual emcees that was out at the time this shyt. It's undeniable. I've personally spoken to some of these artists about this shyt fam. Some of these emcees have told me this shyt out they own face.
"Copped Illmatic, on bootleg, it was so ahead. Thought we was all dead.." -Jay Z.

 

[Champ_KW]

Ain't No nikka got play here in Miami

Cause of Nutty Professor....

 

[ZEB WALTON]

It wasn't.
Only hip hop heads knew about Jay outside of being "that guy on Foxy Brown's song".
Nutty Professor soundtrack sold...reasonable doubt didn't despite having a hot radio single on a hot soundtrack with a hot artist.
That "too cool" personality wasn't in style.

Yuo. Didnt even know jay z had an album in 96. Thought the shyt was a soundtrack song thats it. I was a huge hip hop fan and didnt even really notice jay z till streets is watching

 

[Stack Money]

stop it

You can't refute what I said so you resortin to usin gifs, and i like how you left out everythin I said after that which broke shyt down and proved that statement true.

Was you even into rap in the 90's with that nonsense you just typed out?

Rae was on the mafia rap shyt a full year before "Reasonable Doubt" dropped, so what are you smoking? Jay didn't jump start that shyt or even popularize it.

Fred.

nikka I came up in the 90s I'm prolly older than you, did you even read my post wit that nonsense YOU just typed out? I clearly pointed out that Rae was comin at it from a different angle as the street hustla who started out wit nothin and worked his way up so even tho he they was callin themselves Gambinos on some Mafia shyt that was one track they was rappin about goon shyt on that album more than "Mafia rap", meanwhile Jay rapped about the come up but also significantly spoke as an actual mob boss runnin shyt from the top his album laid the blueprint

for what Mafioso Rap is today. nikkas wasn't rappin about it from that perspective like that wit content about livin in luxury and they weren't usin the Jazz samples/Mafia soundin music, but after Reasonable Doubt every Mafioso rap album sounded like that none of them sounded like Cuban Linx. Biggie went full Mafioso and had Jay join The Commission and while you could argue them all havin nicknames was influenced by Cuban Linx Life After Death was clearly influenced by Reasonable Doubt from the sound to some of the content, and since yall like "receipts" so much from cac writers I got some for you -

"RAEKWON: The Wu-Gambinos aliases come from how I used t o like that movie Once Upon a Time in America, with Robert De Niro and James Woods. I liked how these young little nikkas grew up, from the ground up, not having nothing to start, but still was confused about how they treated each other."
XXL Article On The Making Of "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx".


"Shawn Carter's 1996 debut album would pave the way for everything high-class and expensive in hip-hop, such as today's redundant references to Rolls Royce automobiles and trips to the Bahamas.

Reasonable Doubt set the bar above gangster rap and transformed it into a Mafioso state, which included driving Lexus vehicles, making various references to gangster movies such as "Carlito's Way" and "Scarface," popping bottles of Crystal champagne while, as Jay-Z says, everyone else thought it was beer."

Although Reasonable Doubt has only sold one million copies to date, it remains the album that defined the so-called "Jigga Era" of the late 1990s influencing The Notorious B.I.G., Puff Daddy, Ja Rule and 50 Cent. Hip-hop generations: Defining albums - A&E


"Reasonable Doubt is often compared to another New York landmark, Nas' Illmatic: A hungry young MC with a substantial underground buzz drops an instant classic of a debut, detailing his experiences on the streets with disarming honesty, and writing some of the most acrobatic rhymes heard in quite some time."

"And even if he's rapping about rising to the top instead of being there, his material obsessions are already apparent. Jay-Z the hustler isn't too different from Jay-Z the rapper: Hustling is about living the high life and getting everything you can, not violence or tortured glamour or cheap thrills. In that sense, the album's defining cut might not be one of the better-known singles -- "Can't Knock the Hustle," "Dead Presidents II," "Feelin' It," or the Foxy Brown duet, "Ain't No nikka." It just might be the brief "22 Two's," which not only demonstrates Jay-Z's extraordinary talent as a pure freestyle rapper, but also preaches a subtle message through its club hostess: Bad behavior gets in the way of making money. Perhaps that's why Jay-Z waxes reflective, not enthusiastic, about the darker side of the streets; songs like "D'Evils" and "Regrets" are some of the most personal and philosophical he's ever recorded. It's that depth that helps Reasonable Doubt rank as one of the finest albums of New York's hip-hop renaissance of the '90s." Reasonable Doubt - Jay-Z | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic


"Jay-Z's seminal Reasonable Doubt shocked the world 10 years ago, a personal touchstone for fans then Jay's own age who were getting their own hustles on—hiphop's young, gifted, and black." Hova's Slight Return

 

[thatrapsfan]

50 pages for conventional wisdom?

 

[spliz]

You can't refute what I said so you resortin to usin gifs, and i like how you left out everythin I said after that which broke shyt down and proved that statement true.


nikka I came up in the 90s I'm prolly older than you, did you even read my post wit that nonsense YOU just typed out? I clearly pointed out that Rae was comin at it from a different angle as the street hustla who started out wit nothin and worked his way up so even tho he they was callin themselves Gambinos on some Mafia shyt that was one track they was rappin about goon shyt on that album more than "Mafia rap", meanwhile Jay rapped about the come up but also significantly spoke as an actual mob boss runnin shyt from the top his album laid the blueprint

for what Mafioso Rap is today. nikkas wasn't rappin about it from that perspective like that wit content about livin in luxury and they weren't usin the Jazz samples/Mafia soundin music, but after Reasonable Doubt every Mafioso rap album sounded like that none of them sounded like Cuban Linx. Biggie went full Mafioso and had Jay join The Commission and while you could argue them all havin nicknames was influenced by Cuban Linx Life After Death was clearly influenced by Reasonable Doubt from the sound to some of the content, and since yall like "receipts" so much from cac writers I got some for you -

"RAEKWON: The Wu-Gambinos aliases come from how I used t o like that movie Once Upon a Time in America, with Robert De Niro and James Woods. I liked how these young little nikkas grew up, from the ground up, not having nothing to start, but still was confused about how they treated each other."
XXL Article On The Making Of "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx".


"Shawn Carter's 1996 debut album would pave the way for everything high-class and expensive in hip-hop, such as today's redundant references to Rolls Royce automobiles and trips to the Bahamas.

Reasonable Doubt set the bar above gangster rap and transformed it into a Mafioso state, which included driving Lexus vehicles, making various references to gangster movies such as "Carlito's Way" and "Scarface," popping bottles of Crystal champagne while, as Jay-Z says, everyone else thought it was beer."

Although Reasonable Doubt has only sold one million copies to date, it remains the album that defined the so-called "Jigga Era" of the late 1990s influencing The Notorious B.I.G., Puff Daddy, Ja Rule and 50 Cent. Hip-hop generations: Defining albums - A&E


"Reasonable Doubt is often compared to another New York landmark, Nas' Illmatic: A hungry young MC with a substantial underground buzz drops an instant classic of a debut, detailing his experiences on the streets with disarming honesty, and writing some of the most acrobatic rhymes heard in quite some time."

"And even if he's rapping about rising to the top instead of being there, his material obsessions are already apparent. Jay-Z the hustler isn't too different from Jay-Z the rapper: Hustling is about living the high life and getting everything you can, not violence or tortured glamour or cheap thrills. In that sense, the album's defining cut might not be one of the better-known singles -- "Can't Knock the Hustle," "Dead Presidents II," "Feelin' It," or the Foxy Brown duet, "Ain't No nikka." It just might be the brief "22 Two's," which not only demonstrates Jay-Z's extraordinary talent as a pure freestyle rapper, but also preaches a subtle message through its club hostess: Bad behavior gets in the way of making money. Perhaps that's why Jay-Z waxes reflective, not enthusiastic, about the darker side of the streets; songs like "D'Evils" and "Regrets" are some of the most personal and philosophical he's ever recorded. It's that depth that helps Reasonable Doubt rank as one of the finest albums of New York's hip-hop renaissance of the '90s." Reasonable Doubt - Jay-Z | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic


"Jay-Z's seminal Reasonable Doubt shocked the world 10 years ago, a personal touchstone for fans then Jay's own age who were getting their own hustles on—hiphop's young, gifted, and black." Hova's Slight Return

I don't know who wrote that shyt but Illmatic and Reasonable Doubt wasn't compared in real time. At all. Noone even thought to do that shyt especially being that it was 2 years after Illmatic. But those comparisons didn't happen until after the beef.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

You can't refute what I said so you resortin to usin gifs, and i like how you left out everythin I said after that which broke shyt down and proved that statement true.


nikka I came up in the 90s I'm prolly older than you, did you even read my post wit that nonsense YOU just typed out? I clearly pointed out that Rae was comin at it from a different angle as the street hustla who started out wit nothin and worked his way up so even tho he they was callin themselves Gambinos on some Mafia shyt that was one track they was rappin about goon shyt on that album more than "Mafia rap", meanwhile Jay rapped about the come up but also significantly spoke as an actual mob boss runnin shyt from the top his album laid the blueprint

for what Mafioso Rap is today. nikkas wasn't rappin about it from that perspective like that wit content about livin in luxury and they weren't usin the Jazz samples/Mafia soundin music, but after Reasonable Doubt every Mafioso rap album sounded like that none of them sounded like Cuban Linx. Biggie went full Mafioso and had Jay join The Commission and while you could argue them all havin nicknames was influenced by Cuban Linx Life After Death was clearly influenced by Reasonable Doubt from the sound to some of the content, and since yall like "receipts" so much from cac writers I got some for you -

"RAEKWON: The Wu-Gambinos aliases come from how I used t o like that movie Once Upon a Time in America, with Robert De Niro and James Woods. I liked how these young little nikkas grew up, from the ground up, not having nothing to start, but still was confused about how they treated each other."
XXL Article On The Making Of "Only Built 4 Cuban Linx".


"Shawn Carter's 1996 debut album would pave the way for everything high-class and expensive in hip-hop, such as today's redundant references to Rolls Royce automobiles and trips to the Bahamas.

Reasonable Doubt set the bar above gangster rap and transformed it into a Mafioso state, which included driving Lexus vehicles, making various references to gangster movies such as "Carlito's Way" and "Scarface," popping bottles of Crystal champagne while, as Jay-Z says, everyone else thought it was beer."

Although Reasonable Doubt has only sold one million copies to date, it remains the album that defined the so-called "Jigga Era" of the late 1990s influencing The Notorious B.I.G., Puff Daddy, Ja Rule and 50 Cent. Hip-hop generations: Defining albums - A&E


"Reasonable Doubt is often compared to another New York landmark, Nas' Illmatic: A hungry young MC with a substantial underground buzz drops an instant classic of a debut, detailing his experiences on the streets with disarming honesty, and writing some of the most acrobatic rhymes heard in quite some time."

"And even if he's rapping about rising to the top instead of being there, his material obsessions are already apparent. Jay-Z the hustler isn't too different from Jay-Z the rapper: Hustling is about living the high life and getting everything you can, not violence or tortured glamour or cheap thrills. In that sense, the album's defining cut might not be one of the better-known singles -- "Can't Knock the Hustle," "Dead Presidents II," "Feelin' It," or the Foxy Brown duet, "Ain't No nikka." It just might be the brief "22 Two's," which not only demonstrates Jay-Z's extraordinary talent as a pure freestyle rapper, but also preaches a subtle message through its club hostess: Bad behavior gets in the way of making money. Perhaps that's why Jay-Z waxes reflective, not enthusiastic, about the darker side of the streets; songs like "D'Evils" and "Regrets" are some of the most personal and philosophical he's ever recorded. It's that depth that helps Reasonable Doubt rank as one of the finest albums of New York's hip-hop renaissance of the '90s." Reasonable Doubt - Jay-Z | Songs, Reviews, Credits | AllMusic


"Jay-Z's seminal Reasonable Doubt shocked the world 10 years ago, a personal touchstone for fans then Jay's own age who were getting their own hustles on—hiphop's young, gifted, and black." Hova's Slight Return

none of these reviews are from 96....they are revisionist reviews after jayz became who he is now

Reasonable Doubt set the bar above gangster rap and transformed it into a Mafioso state, which included driving Lexus vehicles, making various references to gangster movies such as "Carlito's Way" and "Scarface," popping bottles of Crystal champagne


stop it

nas has more to do with the development/progression from Kool G Rap to the mid 90's the mafioso style than jayz

 

[IllmaticDelta]

I don't know who wrote that shyt but Illmatic and Reasonable Doubt wasn't compared in real time. At all. Noone even thought to do that shyt especially being that it was 2 years after Illmatic. But those comparisons didn't happen until after the beef.

those are some post-96 (probably 2000s) reviews that don't reflect the reality of that time period.

 

[I_Got_Da_Burna]

dream hampton
@dreamhampton
"I remember forcing Pac to listen to Illmatic. I was out here in L.A. going to court with him & Columbia sent by advance out here."

Yall wanna leave out the fact Pac wasnt checking for that shyt either when it dropped....or do yall wanna keep pretending Pac was plannning on running out to the record store to cop it first day out

Never heard a nikka having to be forced to listen to Doggystyle or Creepin On Ah Come Up though....if only Pac was alive to tell us if he bought RD first day it came out

lol did you just refer to that camel cumguzzler dream hampton's tweet? FOH clown

 

[spliz]

those are some post-96 (probably 2000s) reviews that don't reflect the reality of that time period.

More than likely post 2000s. Them shyts was inaccurate as fukk. Prolly written by people who got into hip hop late.