Future - "Reasonable Doubt was not hot when it dropped"

[Still Benefited]

lol did you just refer to that camel cumguzzler dream hampton's tweet? FOH clown

fukk you too ho,im using these nikkas own source against them,they been tellin me what Dream Hampton said all thread.

While neglecting she also said Nas used ghostwriters

 

[Ghpstface]

Aint No and Brooklyns Finest were everywhere

Maybe where you're at

 

[IllmaticDelta]

dream hampton
@dreamhampton
"I remember forcing Pac to listen to Illmatic. I was out here in L.A. going to court with him & Columbia sent by advance out here."

Yall wanna leave out the fact Pac wasnt checking for that shyt either when it dropped....or do yall wanna keep pretending Pac was plannning on running out to the record store to cop it first day out

Never heard a nikka having to be forced to listen to Doggystyle or Creepin On Ah Come Up though....if only Pac was alive to tell us if he bought RD first day it came out

"name a rapper that I ain't influence"

Tupac ends his third and final verse with a venomous tirade against New York rapper NaS, who he accuses of various hip hop crimes. According to Tupac, NaS is an impostor who stole rap legend Rakim's lyrical style ("you heard 'My Melody' . . . tryin' to sound like Rakim") and plagiarized Tupac's life story ("read about my life in the papers . . . now you want to live my life"). Behind this public hatred was a private admiration. Tupac was a huge fan of NaS' debut album, Illmatic, and was inspired to write "Me and My Girlfriend" after hearing NaS' "I Gave You Power," an anthropomorphic first-person narrative told through the "eyes" of a handgun. He made peace with NaS in New York's Bryant Park on September 4, 1996 and even listened to NaS' sophomore album, It Was Written, as he made his fateful trip to Las Vegas for the Tyson-Seldon fight three days later. According to Suge Knight, Tupac intended to remove the NaS disses from the Makaveli album but died before he could do so. In a magazine interview after Tupac's death, NaS admitted crying when he first heard "Against All Odds."

11.2 K-THORO FM: Amazing Breakdown of "Against All Oddz" (NEW INFO)

and...

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dream hampton on how pac felt about illmatic:

'Hampton credits Illmatic with providing a common artistic ground for rappers on the West Coast and East Coast rap scenes. In the 2009 essay "Born Alone, Die Alone," she recounts the album's impact on West Coast artist, Tupac Shakur. While working as a journalist for The Source in 1994, Hampton covered three court cases involving Tupac. Around this time, she received an advance-copy of Illmatic and immediately dubbed a cassette version for Tupac, who became "an instant convert" of the album. The next day, she writes, Tupac "arrived in his assigned courtroom blasting Illmatic so loudly that the bailiff yelled at him to turn it off before the judge took his seat on the bench.'

Despite these regional differences, Hampton credits Illmatic with providing a common artistic ground for rappers on the West Coast and East Coast rap scenes. In the 2009 essay "Born Alone, Die Alone," she recounts the album's impact on West Coast artist, Tupac Shakur.[108] While working as a journalist for The Source in 1994, Hampton covered three court cases involving Tupac. Around this time, she received an advance-copy of Illmatic and immediately dubbed a cassette version for Tupac, who became "an instant convert" of the album. The next day, she writes, Tupac "arrived in his assigned courtroom blasting Illmatic so loudly that the bailiff yelled at him to turn it off before the judge took his seat on the bench." In her essay, Hampton implies that Nas' lyricism might have influenced Tupac's acclaimed album, Me Against the World, which was recorded that same year.[108]

 

[ZEB WALTON]

I'll start with outkast, The whole flow is watered down east coast tongue twisting rap. Big Boi is the biggest offender out of the group. The concept of the album is southern, but the flow is stolen from tongue twisting. I already broke down the tongue twisters rappers.



Method man huh?

Meth before illmatic


Meth after Illmatic

method man said himself he stopped rapping like that cuz rae n ghost would make fun of him

lets not give nas credit for everything, C.r.e.a.m. officially set off that generation, can it be so simple? nas is just as influenced by wu as visa versa

 

[spliz]

method man said himself he stopped rapping like that cuz rae n ghost would make fun of him

lets not give nas credit for everything, C.r.e.a.m. officially set off that generation, can it be so simple? nas is just as influenced by wu as visa versa

nikka Illmatic was already done by the time Can It Be So Simple came out. People had copies of the full album in 93. And Rae and Nas had no interaction with eachother till after Illmatic came out. Don't just make shyt up.

 

[DANJ!]

This convo again?

Why is this ever a topic of discussion? Jay himself has said it wasn't a "hit" album when it dropped. It wasn't some underground unknown album either, but I've never heard anyone suggest that it was popular on the level of some of the biggest albums at the time.

I dn't get the whole Biggie & Pac correlation tho'. Because I don't care who the artist is, their existence has nothing to do with anyone else's success. It's just like the "if Big & Pac was here, Lil' Wayne wouldn't even be signed" type shyt... how, Sway? Big & Pac didn't stop Coolio from making hits, but you wanna tell me their existence was stoppin' nikkas' whole careers from existing?

This is basically like saying "Jordan wasn't winning rings when Magic and Bird were in their prime"... true, but what tf does it matter, he still won them rings... nobody's ever gonna say "b-b-b-but why he didn't win 'em in '88?"

 

[ZEB WALTON]

nikka Illmatic was already done by the time Can It Be So Simple came out. People had copies of the full album in 93. And Rae and Nas had no interaction with eachother till after Illmatic came out. Don't just make shyt up.

i didnt say wutang influenced illmatic, i said wutang influenced nas

illmatic came out in 94, the whole mafia/rap/coke rap shyt rae was saying in songs since 92. can it be/cream were old wu songs from 91-2, heaven and hell n multiple parts of cuban lnx were recorded\released before illmatic came out. wu tang demo has rae with same style from 91.

stop with the nas is flawless shyt, wutang didnt influence nas escobar? ok.. nas says so himself and hyur in here trying make everyone a nas biter

illmatic nas isnt it was written nas
old jay isnt reasonable doubt jay
old biggie wasnt life after death biggie

nas did not borth that trend.

 

[mobbinfms]

i didnt say wutang influenced illmatic, i said wutang influenced nas

illmatic came out in 94, the whole mafia/rap/coke rap shyt rae was saying in songs since 92. can it be/cream were old wu songs from 91-2, heaven and hell n multiple parts of cuban lnx were recorded\released before illmatic came out.

stop with the nas is flawless shyt, wutang didnt influence nas escobar? ok.. nas says so himself and hyur in here trying make everyone a nas biter

illmatic nas isnt it was written nas
old jay isnt reasonable doubt jay
old biggie wasnt life after death biggie

nas did not borth that trend.

Lettuce just end this now. :pdahellclean:invented mafioso rap

 

[spliz]

i didnt say wutang influenced illmatic, i said wutang influenced nas

illmatic came out in 94, the whole mafia/rap/coke rap shyt rae was saying in songs since 92. can it be/cream were old wu songs from 91-2, heaven and hell n multiple parts of cuban lnx were recorded\released before illmatic came out.

stop with the nas is flawless shyt, wutang didnt influence nas escobar? ok.. nas says so himself and hyur in here trying make everyone a nas biter

illmatic nas isnt it was written nas
old jay isnt reasonable doubt jay
old biggie wasnt life after death biggie

nas did not borth that trend.

I never said Wu Tang didn't influence Nas Escobar. I spoke on specific songs u mentioned. We talking about Illmatic. fukk is u talkin bout Escobar for?. Like I said. Illmatic was finished in its entirety in 93. People had the album in its entirety in 93. fukk is u mentioning Can It All Be So Simple for? U forgot about "The World Is Yours" with the Scarface references. Or the Scarface references on NY State Of Mind?. nikka "Halftime" was on the Zebrahead soundtrack and that came out in 92. Both Wu and Nas got their influence from G Rap. Who also happened to be Nas' direct mentor. And like I said. It don't matter what songs were recorded by them before Illmatic came out. Nas and Rae had zero interaction prior to Illmatic so Nas wouldn't have heard it. Some chicks from overseas put Rae on to Nas actually. Never said Nas was flawless.

 

[ZEB WALTON]

I never said Wu Tang didn't influence Nas Escobar. I spoke on specific songs u mentioned. We talking about Illmatic. fukk is u talkin bout Escobar for?. Like I said. Illmatic was finished in its entirety in 93. People had the album in its entirety in 93. fukk is u mentioning Can It All Be So Simple for? U forgot about "The World Is Yours" with the Scarface references. Or the Scarface references on NY State Of Mind?. nikka "Halftime" was on the Zebrahead soundtrack and that came out in 92. Both Wu and Nas got their influence from G Rap. Who also happened to be Nas' direct mentor. And like I said. It don't matter what songs were recorded by them before Illmatic came out. Nas and Rae had zero interaction prior to Illmatic so Nas wouldn't have heard it. Some chicks from overseas put Rae on to Nas actually. Never said Nas was flawless.

what im saying is the style was already set in motion from wu, you said it yaself, someone overseas put rae on to nas... obviously if rae was overseas it was with wutang which means the album dropped and tracks like can it be so simple, cream, heaven and hell aka some of the tracks that started to influence the genre had no nas influence.

u got guys saying because of nas method man changed his style. complete bullshyt

wu and nas were both influenced by grap and made similar music; nas' was more lyrical, wus was more street. the realistic street rap era of nyc hiphop started off some of these songs from both artists, including biggie,etc. nas made dudes step their pen up but wu influenced nas' direction to the it was written era as well. this is all im saying and ya getting bent outta shape

illmatic is not known to be the street album cuban linx is, tho id say it influenced just as much

 

[spliz]

what im saying is the style was already set in motion from wu, you said it yaself, someone overseas put rae on to nas... obviously if rae was overseas it was with wutang which means the album dropped and tracks like can it be so simple, cream, heaven and hell aka some of the tracks that started to influence the genre had no nas influence.

u got guys saying because of nas method man changed his style. complete bullshyt

wu and nas were both influenced by grap and made similar music; nas' was more lyrical, wus was more street. the realistic street rap era of nyc hiphop started off some of these songs from both artists, including biggie,etc. nas made dudes step their pen up but wu influenced nas' direction to the it was written era as well. this is all im saying and ya getting bent outta shape

illmatic is not known to be the street album cuban linx is, tho id say it influenced just as much

Nah. I'm not. Now that I'm clear on what u tryna say I agree. During that whole 94-96 era they fed off eachother. Plus they hung out everyday as well.

 

[hex]

@IllmaticDelta thank you. This fool actually linked a fukking school newspaper as proof of how influential "RD" was.

@Stack Money the reason I ignored what you said is because it's nonsense. G Rap pioneered mafia rap and Rae popularized it. I'm trying to avoid mentioning Nas because this thread has devolved into Nas stans vs Jay stans but Nas played a far bigger role in mafia rap than Jay-Z.

So stop trying to crow bar Jay into the convo with articles written 10 years after the fact. You notice we can quote rappers from that era, you can't. You came up in the 90's but gotta quote articles written in 2007, stop it.

And you quoting the XXL article is as fukk. You obviously never seen "Once Upon A Time In America". The OG version is damn near 4 hours long and very little of it is "the come up". He was comparing the brotherhood of the Wu and how they grew up together with the beginning of the movie. After that it's a mob flick same as "Goodfellas" or "Casino". Did you forget I run The Film Room as well?

Fred.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

i didnt say wutang influenced illmatic, i said wutang influenced nas

illmatic came out in 94, the whole mafia/rap/coke rap shyt rae was saying in songs since 92. can it be/cream were old wu songs from 91-2, heaven and hell n multiple parts of cuban lnx were recorded\released before illmatic came out. wu tang demo has rae with same style from 91.

stop with the nas is flawless shyt, wutang didnt influence nas escobar? ok.. nas says so himself and hyur in here trying make everyone a nas biter

illmatic nas isnt it was written nas
old jay isnt reasonable doubt jay
old biggie wasnt life after death biggie

nas did not borth that trend.

mafioso rap came from Kool G Rap but Nas has the escobar persona on the Infamous and referenced in an earlier song "Deja Vu" and once again

 

[DANJ!]

@IllmaticDelta thank you. This fool actually linked a fukking school newspaper as proof of how influential "RD" was.

@Stack Money the reason I ignored what you said is because it's nonsense. G Rap pioneered mafia rap and Rae popularized it. I'm trying to avoid mentioning Nas because this thread has devolved into Nas stans vs Jay stans but Nas played a far bigger role in mafia rap than Jay-Z.

So stop trying to crow bar Jay into the convo with articles written 10 years after the fact. You notice we can quote rappers from that era, you can't. You came up in the 90's but gotta quote articles written in 2007, stop it.

And you quoting the XXL article is as fukk. You obviously never seen "Once Upon A Time In America". The OG version is damn near 4 hours long and very little of it is "the come up". He was comparing the brotherhood of the Wu and how they grew up together with the beginning of the movie. After that it's a mob flick same as "Goodfellas" or "Casino". Did you forget I run The Film Room as well?

Fred.

I don't even put Jay in the category of that Mafia rap era because he wasn't doin' that. I know how people get it confused because of the album cover, but mst of the stuff he was rappin' about had nothing to do with that. It was all about street-level hustle shyt, there wasn't any movie-like stories like Nas, Kool G or Rae were doin'. It was different from that, and that's what I think people mean when they say the album was misinterpreted at the time.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

@IllmaticDelta thank you. This fool actually linked a fukking school newspaper as proof of how influential "RD" was.

@Stack Money the reason I ignored what you said is because it's nonsense. G Rap pioneered mafia rap and Rae popularized it. I'm trying to avoid mentioning Nas because this thread has devolved into Nas stans vs Jay stans but Nas played a far bigger role in mafia rap than Jay-Z.

So stop trying to crow bar Jay into the convo with articles written 10 years after the fact. You notice we can quote rappers from that era, you can't. You came up in the 90's but gotta quote articles written in 2007, stop it.

And you quoting the XXL article is as fukk. You obviously never seen "Once Upon A Time In America". The OG version is damn near 4 hours long and very little of it is "the come up". He was comparing the brotherhood of the Wu and how they grew up together with the beginning of the movie. After that it's a mob flick same as "Goodfellas" or "Casino". Did you forget I run The Film Room as well?

Fred.

facts